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Thread: [Guide] Rams

  1. #1

    Default [Guide] Rams

    Another useless guide on game mechanics, from the desk of cheesasaurus

    A brief look at rams

    Training time = (4800 seconds)/(world speed) * 2/3 * 1.06^(-(workshop level))

    Rams attack the general defense, with a whopping 2 points. As exciting as it may be to impale someone with a giant log, it’s a rather difficult feat to pull off. Ever tried it? …Definitely not easy, especially when the other guy’s prancing about. Rams are built to fight walls, not troops.

    Rams do two things when attacking; they negate some of the bonus a wall provides for the fight, and then downgrade it.

    Ram’s Special Abilities

    Special effect 1: negate some of the wall bonus
    The rams treat the wall as if it were a lower level when calculating the defensive power (with a maximum lowering capability of one half the wall’s actual level).

    Formulas:

    # of rams needed to treat the wall as if it were a lower level
    Code:
    Rams needed to lower the level for calculating defense = (2*1.09^(wall lvl) + 4*1.09^(wall lvl)*((levels lowered) - 1) + 0.5) * ((strength of level 1 ram)/(strength of a ram, at the level of the sending village))
    Note: this number is rounded to the nearest whole number.

    # of levels lowered
    Code:
    Levels lowered = (((number of rams)*((strength of a ram, at the level of the sending village)/(strength of level 1 ram))( –0.5 -  2*1.09^(wall lvl))/(4*1.09^(wall lvl)) + 1
    Note: this number is rounded to the nearest whole number.

    Wall bonus
    Code:
    Total defense = (defending troops’ general defense + defending troops’ cavalry defense + defending troops’ defense archer + (20+50*(wall level))*((attacker’s general strength)/(total offensive strength)*[general defense] +(attacker’s cavalry strength)/(total offensive strength)*[cavalry defense] + (attacker’s archer strength)/(total offensive strength)*[archer defense])) * (1.037^(wall level))
    Special effect 2: demolition

    The demolition of the wall has no bearing on the outcome of the current battle.

    The number of rams you have are compared to the number of rams you need for the closest downgrade amount. If there are enough rams present to do the closest downgrade amount, they will do it. Otherwise, they will downgrade the wall by 1 level less than the closest downgrade amount.

    If you win the battle
    Formulas for a battle won:
    Code:
    Levels downgraded = (((rams remaining after losses)+ 1 - (rams lost/ 2)) * ((strength of a ram, at the level of the sending village)/(strength of level 1 ram)) - 1*1.09^(wall lvl))/(2*1.09^(wall lvl)) + 1
    -.-. .... . . ... . | -.. .. ...- .. -. .

    If you lose the battle, the number of rams used = the amount of rams you started with * (defender’s defense lost)/(defender’s original defense)
    Formulas for a battle lost:

    How many rams you need:
    Code:
    number of rams = (2*(1.09)^(wall lvl) + 4*1.09^(wall lvl)*(levels downgraded – 1)) * ((strength of level 1 ram)/(strength of a ram, at the level of the sending village))

    Closest downgrade amount:
    Code:
    Levels downgraded = ((number of rams)*((strength of a ram, at the level of the sending village)/(strength of level 1 ram)) - 2*1.09^(wall lvl))/(4*1.09^(wall lvl)) + 1
    Note: this value is rounded to the nearest whole number

    How many rams to use

    The purpose of attacking with rams is to decrease the amount of defense remaining in the village by as much as possible.

    * If you’re attacking an undefended village, you don’t need to send more than the bare minimum to downgrade it all the way. Rams do work similarly to catapults, in that you can send a series of attacks with small numbers of rams to downgrade the wall more, with less. (lvl 20 -> 0 with 66 rams in series, instead of 219 at once, for example)

    *If you’re attacking a village that doesn’t have enough defense to kill your entire army, and you don’t expect it to be supported soon, just send the minimum number of rams to lower the wall bonus as much as possible. You can remove the rest of the wall later. Sending extra rams will just get them broken.

    *If you’re attacking a reinforced village and can’t kill all the defenders in one shot, remember, the goal is to decrease the amount of defense remaining in the village by as much as possible. Try and get a good balance between offensive strength; bonus negation; and demolition. It all depends on what’s defending.


    unit stats
    more unit stats
    how tech levels work
    time factor for training units = 2/3*1.06^(-(building level))

    battle system basics
    more battle system basics


    There it is. Everything you need to know to optimize your attacks. Do the math.

    many thanks to 4leaf, for sharing the "battle won" ram damage formula!
    Last edited by cheesasaurus : 2010,November 12th at 23:07 Reason: possible fix for battle won?
    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  2. #2

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    Cheese I had no idea you did so many guides :O

    Good work

    Not member of POKE.------------------Hai der.

  3. #3

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    And now, the version with pretty pictures (and less math ):



    1) First, the wall is treated as a lower level for the battle. You can't lower the level by more than half.



    By glancing at the table, you can see that attacking with at least 213 rams will treat a level 20 wall as if it was only level 10. There's no way to lower it less than that, since taking it to level 9 would be less than half of 20.

    2) After the battle, the wall is damaged.

    If you won the battle:
    coming... someday

    ----------- ------------ -----------
    If you lost, the rams damage the wall according to this next chart:


    But wait! You lost the battle, and therefore have no surviving rams! How many rams will attack the wall?

    Divide the number of troops the defender lost by the number of troops the defender started with. Now, multiply the number of rams you started the battle with by this number. The resulting number is the amount of rams that attack!

    How do tech levels come into play? Multiply the number of rams you need by the attack power of one level 1 ram, and divide it by the attack power of one ram of the level you're sending. But there's a catch. The attack power listed in the help file isn't completely accurate. You can read more about tech levels here.

    REEEEEEEDWAAAAAALLLL!

    er.....
    ...
    i mean...

    ....no wall

    I swear, I have never watched that show! Honest!

    ok...


    maybe once or twice..


    ...alright, so I never miss an episode. Does this make me less of a man?



    ^^just kidding^^

    I swear.
    Last edited by cheesasaurus : 2009,October 31st at 02:20 Reason: fixed image links
    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheesasaurus View Post
    You can't lower the level by more than half.
    Why?

    Other then that, I have no qualms. Fantastic guide.

  5. #5

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    I guess that's just the limit the developers decided on... you'll have to ask them

    even with an absurd amount of rams, the wall bonus can't be lowered past half.

    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  6. #6
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    Yeah I tried it on my simulator as well. I complement you on a job well done with this guide one of the best out there

  7. #7
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    Although this doesn't make more then 213 rams useless, there are still advantages to rams in the 500-1000 range.

  8. #8

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    Well, I thought I had this all figured out, but...

    I was wrong about the way the wall damage is calculated when the attacker wins the battle. I'll have to take another look at things

    If anyone already knows the answer, by all means, pass it on

    That darn morthy won't just tell us. Him and his imagined "magic formulas." We'll figure it out eventually though
    Anybody that wants to help, here's what I've gathered so far:
    fixed

    with no defending troops; level 1 rams
    Code:
    #rams = (2*(1.09)^(wall lvl))*(levels downgraded -1) + 1.09^(wall lvl) + 0.5
    
    Note: This value is rounded to the nearest whole number.
    
    Closest downgrade amount:
    
    (same formula as before, just rearranged)
    Levels downgraded = 1 + ((#rams) - 0.5 – (1.09^(wall lvl)))/(2*(1.09^(wall lvl)))
    
    Note: This value is rounded to the nearest whole number
    and the corresponding chart


    *it seems that it uses the level the wall was lowered to from the negation part for the calculation, not the original level.
    Last edited by cheesasaurus : 2009,October 31st at 02:20
    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  9. #9

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    I play in an item world. Just ran a quick check in the sim.

    Carol's morning star seems to double the effect on lowering the wall bonus as well as the damage done to it.

    With the item, you only need 107 rams for the maximum bonus reduction (10 levels on a level 20 wall)

    With the item, you need 110 surviving rams to bring down a level 20 wall (winning the battle).

  10. #10
    sugarwater's Avatar
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    great guides like em.

  11. #11

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    Nice guide, about details ask Jamm, i am sure he knows some of the numbers.

  12. #12

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    thanks, I will ask him.
    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  13. #13

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    I'd never taken the wall bonus into account, I'm glad I found this ;)

  14. #14
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    Any word on tech levels effect on wall bonus?

  15. #15
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    We miss you on W24 cheesasaurus, great guide!
    canine- of W30
    3: 01.37%
    4: 85.33%
    5: 13.30%

  16. #16

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    cheesy strikes again with a kick ass guide
    http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6954/leadercopykw2.jpg

  17. #17

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    [quote=cheesasaurus;2404648]Well, I thought I had this all figured out, but...[quote] not quite?

    If anyone already knows the answer, by all means, pass it on
    sure

    with no defending troops;
    This means ALL your rams "will pass the wall" twice; resulting in double damage. When taking this effect in account you can easily find the solution .. or do some copy-paste:
    Code:
    When the attacker wins:
    ((total offence points / total defence points) ^ -1.5 * total ram points) / 8*1.09^(wall lvl)
    When defender wins:
    (2 - (total offence points / total defence points) ^ 1.5 * total ram points) / 8*1.09^(wall lvl)
    Of course I hold on to my own formulae to make things more complicated .. but this way I'm sure about not duplicating possible errors.
    Need more info? http://forum.tribalwars.nl/showthread.php?t=18629
    The dutch around the formulae can be ignored .. it's the numbers that count. (if you need translation or more info, contact me on the .nl forum)

    Some small extra info: there are 2 calculations from the rams .. 1 during battle and 1 after.
    - During battle the maximum damage of the rams will be halving the wall-lvl, this wall lvl is also the level at which the defencive troop strength has to be calculated.
    - After battle the maximum damage of the rams will be the wall-lvl. (This is also what my formula above represents .. so this is NOT the formula during battle). With no resistance you'll smack down a lvl 20 wall with 219 rams @ lvl 1

    Quote Originally Posted by dbagmcgee View Post
    Any word on tech levels effect on wall bonus?
    During battle no effect on "intermediate" wall-damage, after battle it's the total amount of ram-points that count.




    PS this formula works on a non-paladin world .. in a paladin world something changes when there are more than 1 "sub-battles"

  18. #18
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    Can we define ram points ?

  19. #19

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    I believe that ram points = strength of the rams.

    So level 1 rams have 2 ram points (strength 2)

    Thanks for this Leandro

    I still have to take a closer look, but at first glance it looks correct.
    [08:53:05] cheesasaurus: on a side note I have 76% of the hc in the world
    [08:53:16] Nauzhror: cool nauzh, thanks for sharing

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbagmcgee View Post
    Can we define ram points ?
    You're correct .. there's a small catch, the attackpoints you see at your help are rounded, the ones you should use in your formula should not be rounded.

    The definition:
    # rams * att points
    where the att points = 2 @ level 1 :: 2.5 @ level 2 :: 2.8 @ level 3

    example:
    100 rams @ lvl 2
    100 * 2.5 = 250 ram points

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