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  1. #1

    Default SA's Start Up Guide




    Startup Guide


    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


    Please remember this is a Guideline dont copy all the build orders exactly. Adjusting to different situations is what makes a good player, good.



    Last edited: 16th of June, 2011


    My Standard Build Order - Close Barbarians Preferred. Activity Required.

    Do the tutorial, which will give you resources and 5 spears at the end. When the tutorial tells you to send 5 spears to a barb, do it to get the reward at the end of the tutorial but cancel immediately. As sending 5 spears alone will, although possibly reap a minuscule profit, lose you 50 valuable timber due to 1 spear dying. Which is not a good idea.

    And then the following:

    if you have a barb in your 5x5:
    Build Statue
    and Build Paladin
    The reason to build the statue first is to try and get to the resources in the bonus and barbarian villages before the players around you do! The faster you get paladin, the more resources you are going to be able to get from the barbs, before they become dry.


    However if you don't have a barb relatively near to you then build Clay 1, wood 1, Iron 1. In that order. and then build build the statue

    Wait till your paladin has built and then farm the nearest villages to you constantly with 5 spears and 1 paladin. If you are finding that there are other active players in your close proximity, who has built a paladin soon too (you will see because of increase in points, from statue) then consider Spiking a barb near you, and hopefully kill his paladin. Which will not only stop him from farming and hold him back but leave more resources for you. Make sure you withdraw the spiking pally from the barb as soon as possible so you can continue with farming whilst building one of the following:

    NON PALLY WORLD
    1. In a fantastic area
    (3 or more barbarians touching your village)
    Build Clay 1
    Wood 1
    wood 2
    wood 3
    Iron 1

    2. In an average area:
    Build clay 1
    Build wood 1
    Build iron 1
    Build clay 2
    Build wood 2
    Build clay 3
    Build wood 3
    Build wood 4
    Build wood 5

    3. In a poor area
    (try restarting if it is really bad)
    Build clay 1
    Build wood 1
    Build iron 1
    Build clay 2
    Build wood 2
    Build clay 3
    Build wood 3
    Build iron 2
    Build clay 4
    Build wood 5
    Build wood 6

    PALADIN WORLD
    In a good area:
    (statue)
    Build Clay 1
    Build wood 1
    Build Iron 1
    (statue)
    Build Clay 2
    Build wood 3
    Build wood 4

    In an average area:
    (statue)
    Build clay 1
    Build wood 1
    Build iron 1
    (statue)
    build clay 2
    build clay 3
    build wood 2->5



    Alot might depend on what resources you are getting from your initial farming with your paladin. If you are getting alot of clay for example, then you might not build clay as high.


    HQ 2
    HQ 3

    BARRACKS

    Constantly Build Spears.

    Spoiler:


    Warehouse 2- build warehouse 2 if your iron is approaching its full capacity.
    MARKETstore iron in market by setting lopsided offers. E.g. 1000 iron for 2000 wood, you will need the iron later. But if someone accepts, then Great! You've just got 1000 Free resources. If you have too much just trade it back at 2:1. and you will be getting a lot of free resources.
    Don't forget the market, it is very useful.


    Build Clay 4
    Build Iron 2 ( optional )
    Build Wood 6
    Build Wood 7 (optional )
    Build Wood 8 ( optional )

    Spoiler:


    (spend some resources on Spears, if you are having lots of resources from farming, and if you can – build spears and Buildings constantly at the same time.) - of course, only if there is still plunder-able resources out there. Your goal here is to have spears being trained constantly.
    However, don't waste money on spears if it is not necessary.


    Headquarters 4
    Headquarters 5
    ( still building spears if it is necessary to do so, if it is necessary – then that is a very good thing, because it means your farming is good and you have lots of barbarian villages in your area which is unbelievably helpful early game, as you are most likely seeing If you are at this point)

    SMITHY
    If you are losing spears from the base defense of villages, then you might want to train a few Swords. use them to escort the spears and reduce deaths. Don't go crazy on them, as you will need the iron for LC later on.

    Spoiler:


    SMITHY 2
    Spoiler:


    ~~

    Spiking:

    Spoiler:


    ~~

    BARRACKS 1
    BARRACKS 2
    BARRACKS 3
    Smithy 3


    Spoiler:


    Warehouse 5
    Warehouse 6
    Headquarters 6
    Barracks 4
    Warehouse 4
    Headquarters 7
    Headquarters 8
    Smithy 4
    Smithy 5
    Barracks 5
    Market 2-3
    Headquarters 9
    Headquarters 10



    STABLE 1 (if you built axes earlier, then build scouts if you want to scout potential farms. All of these choices will Determine how quick you get LC. so its all about judgment)
    STABLE 2
    STABLE 3


    Now we are going to build the Proper farming troops, Light cavalry!

    Research them, and if you have offers in the market still there, cancel them and with the iron, build as much LC as you can. Accept any decent offers in the market for iron, or make your own offers. Farm with them as soon as they are built. Send them in groups of 1 (no wall) and groups of 2 (if the barb has a wall). Alternatively if you have scouts, then scout as many villages as you can and use the scout report evaluator to send your raids. Keep building them like there is no other thing matters, (because it doesn't) You shouldn't build many buildings at this point, just concentrate on LC until you have about 50 of them. The farming should be brilliant by now, and your warehouse and farm should be a good level. Slowly begin to take out what is left of your area and if your LC queue is constant and you can afford to build axes alongside LC, then build up your axe count, by taking out players in your area, you are creating more farms. Be cautious, don't get too carried away: only clear someone if you think it will be profitable in the long run.
    After The LC and axes are being pumped out, work on resource mines,
    build up the iron mine first to about level 17
    IRON LEVEL 17 – as you will need it to build LC
    Then build up Clay and wood, but not as high as the iron. This will depend greatly on your farming income.
    You can also upgrade the stable a bit here too to about 5. - and if it is an archer world, you can train some mounter archers which will not only make iron a little easier to come by, it will help you be able to clear spears - as mounted archers are stronger vs spears than light cavalry, which will create more farms for you. They are also fast, and are good farming units.
    If your farming is good and you are easily keeping all the queues constant upgrade 1 or 2 HQ levels in between resource mines wherever you can.
    If you don't have enough resources coming in to keep the building queue going alongside barracks and stable, then just chuck in a few wall levels, as this is cheap to build - but has good use.
    please note: you are not trying to HQ rush yet, the priority should be to get the mines up, and only once you have constant queues in the stables and the barracks


    The order of the next set of constructions is very variable, and will depend on a few factors:-
    - the speed of the world, which will effect you're farming income. Generally speaking, the lower the speed of the world compared to the troop speed, the higher you will be able to upgrade your HQ
    - the growth of barbs, which will effect you're farming income. Growing barbs will give you alot more resources and you will be able to upgrade your HQ alot higher, whereas if growth of barbs is off - then you will need a much lower HQ and it will depend on how well you can farm the players around you that have either quit or are inactive.
    - how many active players are in your area, which will effect you're farming income. The more active players farming the same farms as you, the less resources you are going to have therefore you are not going to be able to get the HQ as far upgraded.
    - whether or not you want fast nobles, or a maxed farm first. For faster nobles you will want a reasonably high HQ (about 23) but you will not upgrade the stable and barracks as high, you will instead progress to faster siege followed by a further smithy rush to nobles, you will also most likely need to build higher mines.
    - you may not have enough resources to upgrade the HQ up one HQ upgrade after another, you will have to mix it up a bit with stable/barracks/farm/warehouse upgrades between.


    HQ to 20-27
    Market to 10
    Stables to 13-18
    Barracks to 18-23


    Build farm and warehouse upgrades between when needed, don't wait till your farm is full before you upgrade the farm though- upgrade it in advance so your stable and barracks never have to stop producing troops.

    Smithy to 10
    Workshop to 2-6 start training rams


    Spoiler:



    Work out whether or not is worth building more HQ upgrades - use a HQ calculator.
    SMITHY 20 (also whilst/before your upgrading smithy.. upgrade farm to as high as you think you will need it by the time you start making nobles and warehouse too to level 26/27, try and save up for the noble building)
    Academy
    Coins/nobles
    Build 3-4 nobles.
    whilst finishing off upgrading your village, upgrade market as well. so you can send resources to your new village, then continue to build your nuke if it is not already fully built/queued up


    Nobling
    Spoiler:


    Other Buildings you want to upgrade once you have taken multiple villages and you have troops being queued: (remember to specialize your villages in offense/defense)
    Village Headquarters (Level 20-24)
    Barracks (Level 25)
    Stable (Level 20)
    Workshop (Level 5)
    Academy (Level 1)
    Smithy (Level 20)
    Rally point (Level 1)
    Statue (Level 1)
    Market (Level 20)
    Timber camp (Level 30)
    Clay pit (Level 30)
    Iron mine (Level 30)
    Farm (Level 30)
    Warehouse (Level 30)
    Wall (Level 20)


    A nuke build:
    3200 LC
    6000 axes
    220 rams
    100 scouts
    (room for 5 nobles)

    A defensive build:
    8000 spears
    2000 HC
    100 scouts

    From this point onwards it's just a matter of staying active, nobling your enemies, helping out your tribe, and ALWAYS farming. Use scripts to help you if you are a premium user.
    I recommend buying a premium because it makes things 100X easier



    Backtiming Guide

    What is it?

    Backtiming is the fairly well known skill of timing troops to arrive at an enemy village, milliseconds after the enemy troops are due to arrive back at their village, thus giving them no escape to your attack (backtime) And therefore, will hopefully give you a chance of killing their troops easily, and obviously reducing the likeliness of any future attacks from that village/player. Backtiming is often the only form of "defense" if your village consists of mainly offensive units.

    How to do it?
    You have an incoming, and you have successfully identified it as either axe, sword, cav, or siege speed.

    For the benefit of this example let's say its siege speed, and its due to arrive at your village at 14:30:45

    This is the first important information you need.
    You must now find out the exact distance of the unit. You can find this out easily if you have premium by going onto the incoming command, and clicking the drop down “show troop distance times” Or if you do not have premium, you can attack the village, and remember the time from the confirmation screen. (Obviously don't actually send the attack ?)
    Let's say the speed of RAMS/CATS is 05:00:00 for the sake of this example.

    With this information you can calculate the exact time the enemy troops will be returning to their village, after attacking yours.

    14:30:45 + 05:00:00 = 19:30:45

    Remember: returning units always return back on the exact second. i.e. No milliseconds.
    So you can be sure that they will be returning 19:30:45:000
    So to backtime this attack, you need to send an attack to land JUST after 19:30:45:000, preferably within the same second. As this makes it extremely difficult for them to dodge.

    So e.g. 19:30:45:382

    How Do I do this?
    Simple, you find out the distance of the troops you want to be backtime with (axes/LC ) And you take that away from 19:30:45, which will give you the exact time you need to launch.
    So for the sake of this example, lets say the time it takes for your axes to get to their village is
    03:00:00
    19:30:45 – 03:00:00 = 16:30:45,

    which is the exact time you want to be launching your backtime.

    Notes/Tips:

    - You will want to click OK about 0.5-1.5 seconds before the EXACT time, due to the lag of your PC, and the time it takes for the server to "process" the command.
    - If you have multiple villages, you can use a different village to backtime if it is closer, or you could knock down the wall with a different village before your backtime arrives . Decreasing your losses.


    Backtiming with the same speed units

    Sometimes, you will want to backtime with the same speed troops that are incoming towards your village. I.e. backtiming Rams, with rams. When you want to do this, the method that is explained in above is no longer possible, as theoretically you need to be sending the backtime, JUST as the attack hits your village. Clearly, this is somewhat harder to do as if the attack hits your village and your troops are still IN your village, then you will most likely lose your troops. Therefore, the only way to backtime without losing troops would be to dodge momentarily, have them arrive back JUST after the incoming has arrived, and then send them to backtime immediately.

    In this next explanation, I will show you how to do this effectively, making it extremely difficult for your opponent to dodge in time.

    There are a few basic concepts that you must understand before you can be able to perform this skill.

    Firstly, commands that are “Canceled” always return on the same millisecond that they would otherwise have landed on, if it had not had been canceled.
    Secondly, all commands that are “Returning” from a village, return on the EXACT second. (No milliseconds)

    So, you have an incoming attack, at ram speed. And you want to backtime the attack with your offence including your rams. And you want to backtime with the village which is being attacked.
    First, find out the exact arrival time of the incoming attack. For this example, I will say 22:33:36:616

    Secondly, set up an attack on the village that is attacking you with the troops you want to backtime with, get it to the confirmation screen. DO NOT close this tab. You will need it later to send the backtime.


    Spoiler:



    Then, You need to set up something similar to the above, where you have your dodge confirmation ready to attack any random barb, it doesn’t matter what barb or player you choose to use, but it needs to be further than 10 minutes away preferably.

    Also, have the overview of the incoming on a different window, or collapsed tab, so you can see it easily as you click OK
    You must note down the time it takes to get to that barb beforehand. And as you click OK, make a mental note of the time on the “Arrival in:” on the left window.

    Once you have done this, go to your attack, and check the milliseconds. It needs to be over :616. If it is not over 616 the first time, cancel it immediately then do the above steps again until you get it above 616.
    Once you have sent the dodge, you must now half the time that you mentally noted, and then take it away from the time it takes for your troops to arrive at the barbarian village.

    So for the example above it was 0:13:14
    0:13:14 / 2 = 0:06:37
    Then
    0:55:54 – 0:06:37 = 0:49:17





    After that, you should be able to see your troops returning just after the incoming, and as soon as your troops return go to the tab that you saved at the beginning, and confirm ('ok') JUST as your troops return.

    With this method of backtiming, you need to practice it a few times and cant expect to get it right first time. You will get the hang of it after a few times though. Its important to note that the lag of your computer and the time it takes for the server to process a command needs to be considered. This is different for each player, and its important that you understand the lag of your machine.

    When you're taking a mental note of the arrival countdown as your clicking OK, try to time it so it is an EVEN number. As this is then easily divided into 2. This will help you with the calculations.

    In Alternate to this method, you can bounce your troops of a nearby barb – timed to arrive back at your village after the attack hits- and then send immediately. However with this, it is slightly less accurate and its unlikely you'll backtime on the SAME SECOND. Which is the ultimate goal here.
    Nevertheless, if the incoming attack has milliseconds of :999 then the method I just mentioned would be most advisable.


    ~ ~ ~

    Good luck and have fun! Hope this Guide helps some people.

    Written by Sam C
    Last edited by StayingActive : 2011,June 16th at 15:12

  2. #2
    Bittergal's Avatar
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    Didn't have time go through the whole guide, but I saw one thing I might add to the following paragraph:
    Quote Originally Posted by StayingActive View Post
    [i]As soon as you have 4 spears, send them with your pally to the nearest Barb/bonus/ inactive ( If there is no BP.) get between 20 – 50 spears, depending on the number of Barbs, bonus villages that are farmable In your area, always send troops to the nearest villages if you are still getting full hauls to save time, and get more resources. As soon as your hauls drop, spilt up your troops more, and farm villages further away etc.
    The way to split up your troops is by building groups of 5 Swords (or 5 Axes if you had time to do the research) and send them along with each Spear groups not being accompanied by the Pally. This allows you to send smaller farming groups more regularly, increasing your likelyhood of getting better hauls. These Swords also increases your Spears' survival rate if your farm happens to build a wall level or if someone is stupid enough to spike your farm with a lone Pally.
    Bittergal

  3. #3

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    If you are losing spears from the base defence of villages, then you might want to train a few axes. I only do this, if my farming is so good, that I can continue to build buildings at the same time as researching and training axes.
    It is not necessary to build Tons of axes, but just a few to escort the spears and reduce deaths.
    but i wouldnt advise sending Swords with your spears that will really slow them down.

    and by the time a barb has built a wall, then you will most likely have a few axes, or even LC.

  4. #4
    pyker42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayingActive View Post
    but i wouldnt advise sending Swords with your spears that will really slow them down.

    and by the time a barb has built a wall, then you will most likely have a few axes, or even LC.
    Some players rush LC and do not build axes before LC. However, since you generally get the swords when you get a smithy, building swords to accompany the spears will ensure the spears survival, as well as being able to use excess iron that builds up before you start producing LC en masse.

    I generally don't like guides that give a set building pattern for an early village, since there are a lot of variables that determine what you should build when, but I don't find anything really wrong with the guidelines you set up, except for one thing. I would build a workshop long before I have a level 20 HQ. Usually, I keep my HQ at 10 while I am building the smithy up from 5 to 10.

    Another thing, if you are farming well enough, you do not need resources pits to be in the 20's before you noble your first village.
    Spoiler:

    [4:55:14 PM] kentster82: try to be like pyker he is spam master

  5. #5

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    all you need is 32 spears to attack a village with no wall and None of them will Die. Personally, i only get 10 swords For Spiking otherwise i like to store the Iron in my market so that when the time Comes to Build LC, i can build at least 5 immediately, instead of just 1 or 2. you can probably get away with not building any swords at all, as long as you are getting Full Hauls from sending groups of 32 spears. I cant imagine how slow sending swords farming would be. Maybe you are right, but i have never used Swords when farming. If i am needing protection to escort the spears, i usually go for axes instead because At least they travel at the same speed as Spears, and they Dont Consume all your precious Iron that is being saved for The Light cavalry.

    I generally don't like guides that give a set building pattern for an early village, since there are a lot of variables that determine what you should build when, but I don't find anything really wrong with the guidelines you set up, except for one thing. I would build a workshop long before I have a level 20 HQ. Usually, I keep my HQ at 10 while I am building the smithy up from 5 to 10.
    I understand you not liking A set Building order, but i would like to see this as a Rough Guideline. alot depends on your area, and the settings of the world etc. some players who are new to the game dont really know what order to build things, I know i most certainly didnt when i first Joined.

    And I agree with you about The level 20 resources, I might Cut that out thinking about it.
    thanks for your help

    Edit:
    I have changed that particular section,
    Smithy to 10 -12
    Workshop to 3+
    HQ to 20 +
    Barracks to 12
    Stables to 10
    Barracks to 15
    Stables to 12
    Barracks to 17
    Stables to 14
    Barracks to 19
    Smithy to 10 first to get the Workshop and build rams/cats.
    And also, you can build up the barracks, and stable first, and then adding in a HQ upgraded Here and there; that seems to work reasonably well. I am not quite sure of the fastest way to go about this particular section, im sure there is a mathematically fastest way if anybody wants to work it out :P i just thought it would be Logical to Build up the HQ first as it makes construction times of the other buildings Shorter.
    Last edited by StayingActive : 2009,December 14th at 20:05

  6. #6
    pyker42's Avatar
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    As I generally don't LC rush, it isn't long after I've built a few swords that I am building a few axes as well. I do know, though, that most players who LC rush build swords to help the farming. It does make the trips 22% slower, but breaking up your farming runs into smaller groups, especially during bp where you can't farm the inactives and the resources of the barbs/bonuses can often be at a premium, can actually net you more resources in the end, which is why it is done.

    Axes are better for this type of work, of course, but swords can be used if your strategy is to go for LC as quickly as you can.

    As for saving of the iron, I generally build up the iron mine as I am building up the stable and researching LC so I start to get a higher iron intake. I don't build a market before I build a stable, so storing resources in the market just isn't possible.
    Spoiler:

    [4:55:14 PM] kentster82: try to be like pyker he is spam master

  7. #7

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    interesting, thanks for your Suggestions. ill definitely try escorting with Swords instead of Axes. 22% slower is not that slow after all if you think about it.

    EDIT:
    however, Spiking and knocking back the enemies Growth is of greater i feel is of greater importance than getting LC a few hours earlier. thats why i spike with them instead of farm. and its only 50 30 10 resources to build an extra spear. The profit will be greater so it is not going to harm your growth drastically
    Last edited by StayingActive : 2009,December 14th at 20:13 Reason: Spelling:D

  8. #8
    pyker42's Avatar
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    No problem. And, it is a reasonable guidline for new players to follow. Good work.
    Spoiler:

    [4:55:14 PM] kentster82: try to be like pyker he is spam master

  9. #9

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    thankyou very much for your Constructive and interesting Replies. Very much appreciated

  10. #10
    anunad's Avatar
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    Probably a good idea to talk a little about offensive and defensive villages or you get n00bs with hundreds of mixed villages.

  11. #11

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    Yes, But this is an early Game Guide. i didnt want to get into too much detail about village builds, because there is alot of people who will explain it better than i do.
    http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=137637

  12. #12

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    not a bad guide, and some very good points.

    however, as pyker said - giving specific builds may eliminate alot of the flexibility you need when starting a new account. As you said yourself - your expecting players to have a basic understanding of the game before reaching out for this guide. So you might find it better to explain the basic concepts and then suggest builds. Give them the knowledge to make the right choice, than giving them a step-by-step plan to follow, will help the player in the long run. Even if they make a wrong move, but know why - it'll help them prepare again than not really knowing what went wrong.

    Your brand new account needs to be tailored to meet the surroundings of your village as best you can, I know it been mentioned but it really is important, each village will need to be played differently during it first few weeks as each circumstance will be different.

    If might be worth explaining that it's also very competitive at the start of a world, that they may do everything right and still lose a week or month down the line.

  13. #13

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    however, as pyker said - giving specific builds may eliminate alot of the flexibility you need when starting a new account. As you said yourself - your expecting players to have a basic understanding of the game before reaching out for this guide. So you might find it better to explain the basic concepts and then suggest builds. Give them the knowledge to make the right choice, than giving them a step-by-step plan to follow, will help the player in the long run. Even if they make a wrong move, but know why - it'll help them prepare again than not really knowing what went wrong.
    I agree with you, But like i said to pyker, i see this Build order more as a Guideline, rather than a list of step by step Instructions, i feel that it would help people to know what they should be building, and at what stage they should have certain things etc. To be Honest, there can be no Perfect Guide to Tribalwars, It doesnt matter how many Guides are written - or how long they are, each situation is different, every player is different - every World is different. Most knowledge and skill doesn't come from Guides but from Experience, Sure; you can learn from other players and reading there Ideas and strategies but at the end of the day, Practice makes perfect.
    Failing, Making mistakes and Making your Own Strategies and plans is what learning is all about. I don't expect anyone to Follow this Guide letter for letter, but to develop it into there own playing style which suits them best.
    Guides should not be followed exactly, and i hope anyone reading them knows this.
    Thanks for the reply
    Last edited by StayingActive : 2010,September 23rd at 20:20

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by anunad View Post
    Probably a good idea to talk a little about offensive and defensive villages or you get n00bs with hundreds of mixed villages.
    The more of those there are, the more easy noble targets. Good guide, I agree with most of it, though it's much the same as most other startup guides.
    andyblin1 - Prime - W20

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullroarer Took View Post
    The more of those there are, the more easy noble targets.
    Since when has mixing villages early game been a bad thing?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangesurfer View Post
    Since when has mixing villages early game been a bad thing?
    It's not really as effective, but my comment was directed at lategame players with mixed villages, like it says in the quoted text.
    andyblin1 - Prime - W20

  17. #17
    pyker42's Avatar
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    Early game, mixing your village is the way to go if you plan to be part of a tribe and actually help your tribe.
    Spoiler:

    [4:55:14 PM] kentster82: try to be like pyker he is spam master

  18. #18

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    whats better support than attacking the player that is attacking your tribe?
    I tend not to build Mixed villages at all, but it depends on what pally weapon I happen to find, and what my tribe are like.
    Of course, helping your tribe is important - so i would say that it depends on the situation of your tribe, if the tribe gets it self into an early war, then building up Some defence and wall would be advisable.

  19. #19

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    Well if you are in a tribe where every builds support, 5k/5k should be easy enough to stack a village before a player's nobles hit. If they're all O then that's nearly all there troops destroyed (I'm assuming that they've left ~500 lc home for farming). With all this O gone then they have no chance to backtime so can easily be catted and will then be likely to quit/nobled.

    Also if you do have several sp/hc as defence you can lose your O and still manage to farm and block some of those pesky cats. Your tribe will also be more likely to support you since they know that you could support them if they needed it.

  20. #20

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    If every member had 500 spears 100 HC in there village, and say there is 40 members then if they all send 500 spears 100 HC each to the player that is being attacked, then that would be 20,000 spears 4000 HC, which would totally destroy the attack. so i see what you mean.
    you dont need Masses of defence though, Just enough to support your tribe and etc

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