Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast
Showing results 1 to 20 of 145
  1. #1

    Default A Humble Players Guide

    A Humble Player's Meta-Game Guide



    Listen fair players
    and you shall learn
    of the meta-guide
    for which you yearn.

    You've heard of great players
    like Tharg and Jamm
    to become like them
    many guides you cram.

    You follow them mindlessly
    You don't know why
    well guess what,
    I hear your cry!

    This guide will explain
    how great players become
    the amazing ones
    we all learn from.

    And more than that
    it will do.
    The tricks behind startup
    it will teach you.

    But not step by step
    more of the why
    it's not what to do
    just things to try.

    So, for those who didn't want to read/did not understand my poem, here is an explanation:
    This guide is not meant to give a step by step guide for startup, there are players like Purple Predator for that. This guide goes more into the why. It attempts to explain the reasoning behind building buildings in whatever order you build them in. It specifically does not give a right way to start, but it lets the reader infer, and experiment.
    This guide is for those who want to know why people "HQ rush" before "rax/stable rushing," and have never understood why you wait so long to "smithy rush."
    This guide does delve quite deeply into the scary part of tribalwars, mathematics. I have tried to explain it simply, but if you get confused, feel free to ask any questions. Also, all calculations are made for a speed one world.


    Disclaimers, requests, and technicalitis:
    This is a long guide, over 4500 words. If you don't have 30 or so minutes to devote to reading it, wait until a later time as this guide is best read in 1 piece.
    I will hurt anyone who begins their posts with tl:dr.
    This guide does have its share of walls of text, I did my best to use spoilers and add as many pictures as was humanly possible.
    If you would like me to elaborate/explain something, feel free to post your question, the same goes with disagreements.
    If you are someone who is knitpicky about grammar, mail me. I do not want this thread spammed with people telling me I have comma splices.
    I would suggest not trying to figure out who I am, it would be much too much work.
    This guide is a work in progress, so expect some increases in size, mostly in the large wall of text areas.


    Buildings
    Spoiler:


    A More in depth Analysis of Buildings
    Spoiler:


    Units
    Spoiler:


    A more in depth analysis of units:
    Spoiler:


    Tribalwars is like a...
    Spoiler:


    15*15 farming resources per hour, by unit
    Spoiler:


    Recognitions:
    I would like to thank both Jamm and Cheesasaurus, as they have previously written guides that made the creation of this infinitely easier. I would also like to thank the two people who proofed this guide, you know who you are, and it will stay that way.

    Any and all threads and resources used in the making of this guide are here:
    http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=90623
    http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=101355
    http://en45.tribalwars.net/help2.php?article=buildings
    http://forum.tribalwars.net/showpost...9&postcount=10
    Last edited by A humble player : 2010,July 14th at 14:26

  2. #2
    blocked
    Join Date
    2009,June 10th
    Posts
    758

    Default

    Pretty nice guide, thanks.

  3. #3
    anunad's Avatar
    Join Date
    2009,October 10th
    Location
    Somewhere on Earth
    Posts
    304

    Default

    Yes this is a very nice guide to refer back to for anyone.

  4. #4
    sphynxs's Avatar
    Join Date
    2009,March 7th
    Location
    Caught Somewhere in Time!
    Posts
    163

    Default

    An elightening read, thank you.
    I, rule the midnight air! The destroyer...

  5. #5

    Default

    Good effort there
    Spoiler:

  6. #6

    Default

    Well, awww shuck guys....you shouldn't have
    Anyway, thank you for the responses, so far so good it seems.
    I was scared I was going to have to shamelessly bump this thread after the first few days. I am currently working on some more statistical analyses of in game things, as well as a few tables/pictures for you guys. Be on the lookout for some lengthening of my walls of text, especially in th TW is like a business section.

  7. #7

    Default

    stopped at the buildings cba to point out how many things are wrong in at at 3 am
    i wouldnt follow
    Hugo
    Spoiler:

  8. #8

    Default

    Thank you for taking the time to write this up. It is rather difficult to follow because it deals with a concepts and theories rather than procedures or a set list of what to do. But I do think it does get the point across. In Fairness it does say Meta-Game, so this is spot on.
    I would even go so far as to recommend that this thread be "stickfied". I personal rank its usefulness among TeachU's Textbooks and Agent Incognito's Dictionary.
    Kudos.

  9. #9

    Default

    Yeah there are some huge holes in there for the buildings. First, Iron is very important when building troops, at first not a huge deal, but becomes more important as you use up troops. Second, rams and cats are very important especially cats in early world stage.

    I could go into more issues, but good try. Getting a little tried right now to go into more issues with it.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xx magiks xx View Post
    stopped at the buildings cba to point out how many things are wrong in at at 3 am
    i wouldnt follow
    I would love to know where.
    Also, please give evidence/reasons. Just saying that "Iron is important" holds nothing to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by gothicmarty View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to write this up. It is rather difficult to follow because it deals with a concepts and theories rather than procedures or a set list of what to do. But I do think it does get the point across. In Fairness it does say Meta-Game, so this is spot on.
    I would even go so far as to recommend that this thread be "stickfied". I personal rank its usefulness among TeachU's Textbooks and Agent Incognito's Dictionary.
    Kudos.
    Again, thank you. It really, REALLY surprises me that people like this guide that much.
    The only problem is that farily soon the front page of general will be covered in stickies.
    Quote Originally Posted by killabeast View Post
    Yeah there are some huge holes in there for the buildings. First, Iron is very important when building troops, at first not a huge deal, but becomes more important as you use up troops. Second, rams and cats are very important especially cats in early world stage.

    I could go into more issues, but good try. Getting a little tried right now to go into more issues with it.
    Rams and cats really don't have a huge effect until right at nobling. Since you will really only loose a max of 3 LC on an average farming run, if the village has a level 20 wall (since when will an average barb have a L20 wall?) If you consider them good for clearing your 15*15, then I don't consider you good.
    Clearing the active players in your 15*15 is not a smart thing to do until VERY close to nobles, or even after. If you disagree with me, show me how it truly betters your farming. Clearing them is only a good choice if they are farming more than you, in which case they will be well ahead of you when you get rams, and you would be unable to clear them anyway.

    Catapults on the other hand are fairly useful. Not hugely useful, and it is possible to attain great rankings without the use of them or rams, but more useful then rams none-the-less. The only uses they have are for curving farms, or barbs, but they are fairly ineffective. If I were to say, cat the clay pit of a village to 0, what isn't to say it would just build it back to whatever I catted it from. I will say this is unlikely, but it is possible.

    As for iron, I ranked it one lower than the other mines only because it builds slower. I consider them all fairly equally unimportant, except in the first 2-3 days (before you get LC). Now, this may be influenced by my experiences on W45 (6/6/6 mines until nobling), but you will get MANY times as many resources from farming than from your mines, so you don't need them all that high.
    Also, most respectable players are able to move their resources around (using training (iron heavy), building (clay heavy), and both (wood medium/heavy) to keep one resource from growing too much above the others. Of course, using a market can help quite a bit.
    Like I said to xx magics xx, give evidence. Make your arguments as if I have never played a world and have no idea of your skills or abilities.

    EDIT: added some things
    Last edited by A humble player : 2010,February 10th at 13:25

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post

    Catapults on the other hand are fairly useful. Not hugely useful, and it is possible to attain great rankings without the use of them or rams, but more useful then rams none-the-less. The only uses they have are for curving farms, or barbs, but they are fairly ineffective. If I were to say, cat the clay pit of a village to 0, what isn't to say it would just build it back to whatever I catted it from. I will say this is unlikely, but it is possible.
    Catapults are also useful for the small players that will never grow big enough to be worth a noble, at least not in an any decent length of time. Since they'd be better suited as a farm, catapults work great at convincing them to quit.

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    As for iron, I ranked it one lower than the other mines only because it builds slower. I consider them all fairly equally unimportant, except in the first 2-3 days (before you get LC). Now, this may be influenced by my experiences on W45 (6/6/6 mines until nobling), but you will get MANY times as many resources from farming than from your mines, so you don't need them all that high.
    W45 is significantly different in terms of incoming resources than many other worlds due to the low world speed/high unit speed ratio. This means in 24 gameplay hours on w45 (takes 48 hours) you can farm 1.75 times more than the equivalent amount of time on a world speed 1/unit speed 1 world.

    For worlds with a higher world speed/lower unit speed, it is more worth it to build up the mines somewhat (never more than 20 or even a bit below) on your way to noble. Farming is still quite useful on these worlds, but it has a lessened effect.

    Raising your mines also helps in case of any accidents. If you happen to have your troops nuked or that 400 point player was stacked, rebuild will take longer from level 6 resources. As you say its a game of risk and reward. But since this guide isn't targeted at the "best" players and its aiming to teach learning players you may want to address some of those things.


    And now some other stuff about the guide I thought it was fairly interesting, and an immense project to undertake, so nicely done there. However, just a couple of questions I had.

    For the indepth analysis of the units, you quoted a number of resources/hour you could earn with them. How did you find this?

    You also mention that for a set amount of resources spears will perform better than LC, but with a set amount of population space, LC perform better than spears. I had always thought of spears being more efficient per population, gather 25 resources/pop instead of 20 resources/pop, unless you also take travel speed into comparison, which accelerates LC to definitely being better than the spears since they move at twice the rate. For a set amount of resources, does the travel time have any impact on that?

    Now jump to the building section. For the pph, what building level did you use? As I ran through a few of the buildings (I didn't test all), I noticed that there could be a fairly large variance(+- 3) depending on the building level used for each of the listed HQ levels.

    All I can think of for now, although I'm sure I'll have a couple questions later. All in all, I liked the amount of math that you put into the guide, as I've always tried to explore ways to use the formulas of the game to make my own gameplay more efficient. Oh, and sorry for the long reply

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post

    Rams and cats really don't have a huge effect until right at nobling.
    Yes lets leave all the active players around so they can take away from you farms, build level 20 walls, and build troops for fun. /me does facepalm. sometimes you have to make your own farms as there aren't barbs around. Rams and Cats help push that. Not saying clear all of your 15x15, but eliminating threats is a very good idea to start off. Especially when you start in the core.

    Since you will really only loose a max of 3 LC on an average farming run,
    I don't like to continue to waste troops, it tends to screw up the return on investment.

    , if the village has a level 20 wall (since when will an average barb have a L20 wall?) If you consider them good for clearing your 15*15, then I don't consider you good. Clearing the active players in your 15*15 is not a smart thing to do until VERY close to nobles, or even after.
    Farm only 15x15? no I farm all over. Easily out to 4 hours away. Most good players do ;) I tend to clear most of my 15x15, eliminate the threats early. Been in a lot of top tribes trust me on that one.

    If you disagree with me, show me how it truly betters your farming. Clearing them is only a good choice if they are farming more than you, in which case they will be well ahead of you when you get rams, and you would be unable to clear them anyway.
    See Purple Predator as an example. Probably one of the best Starter in the game. Pervis is another. You don't kill them all, you try and figure out who will be the point whores and keep them around, they build up a village nicely.

    Catapults on the other hand are fairly useful. Not hugely useful, and it is possible to attain great rankings without the use of them or rams, but more useful then rams none-the-less. The only uses they have are for curving farms, or barbs, but they are fairly ineffective. If I were to say, cat the clay pit of a village to 0, what isn't to say it would just build it back to whatever I catted it from. I will say this is unlikely, but it is possible.
    Cats are very useful for curving farms. And for slowing down players that are building fast. Also very effective in later game strategies. A nice cat train can look like "fakes" being sent. Trust me it's a good idea to shut big mouths up that like to talk trash when their villages are leveled to almost nothing. See XLR w19 as example (Not the Rank #1 tribe in the world, but most tribes fear them, strong warring tribe)

    As for iron, I ranked it one lower than the other mines only because it builds slower. I consider them all fairly equally unimportant, except in the first 2-3 days (before you get LC). Now, this may be influenced by my experiences on W45 (6/6/6 mines until nobling), but you will get MANY times as many resources from farming than from your mines, so you don't need them all that high.
    Also, most respectable players are able to move their resources around (using training (iron heavy), building (clay heavy), and both (wood medium/heavy) to keep one resource from growing too much above the others. Of course, using a market can help quite a bit.
    Like I said to xx magics xx, give evidence. Make your arguments as if I have never played a world and have no idea of your skills or abilities.

    EDIT: added some things
    Low res mines aren't a very good strategy, especially against better players. EXAMPLE: w39, top 2 were fighting RANDOM and another tribe (name slips me at the moment), You were seeing back times of back times of back times of back times. no lie, you had some of the best players in the game and the back timings were crazy. Now getting hit you risk the chance of losing your entire farming or even hitting spikes. Those low res levels set you back really bad. Another Example was Ender_wiggins, a good player, who lost his troops and was at low res levels ended up becoming a farm as he had nothing to defend with and was getting catted and he had to restart.

  13. #13

    Default

    It looks like an interesting discussion will be shared with all, just the way I like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2004 Artemis View Post
    Catapults are also useful for the small players that will never grow big enough to be worth a noble, at least not in an any decent length of time. Since they'd be better suited as a farm, catapults work great at convincing them to quit.
    I personally don't run in to many of those, or I wait long enough to noble them. I never waste troops, as it is more efficient. But, it is personal choice really, though I have played both ways, and I gain more going without clearing munchkins.

    W45 is significantly different in terms of incoming resources than many other worlds due to the low world speed/high unit speed ratio. This means in 24 gameplay hours on w45 (takes 48 hours) you can farm 1.75 times more than the equivalent amount of time on a world speed 1/unit speed 1 world.
    I agree completely, I did say it was influenced, but only slightly. I did my calculations all for a speed 1/1 word, based on my experiences as a mediocre player, as well as a fairly good one, and my experiences with players much better than myself.

    For worlds with a higher world speed/lower unit speed, it is more worth it to build up the mines somewhat (never more than 20 or even a bit below) on your way to noble. Farming is still quite useful on these worlds, but it has a lessened effect.
    Yes, but again this is all based on a 1/1 world

    Raising your mines also helps in case of any accidents. If you happen to have your troops nuked or that 400 point player was stacked, rebuild will take longer from level 6 resources. As you say its a game of risk and reward. But since this guide isn't targeted at the "best" players and its aiming to teach learning players you may want to address some of those things.
    You have a good point there, but I will say, if you play by the rules outlined here, you should have enough troops to survive most anything thrown at you. In most cases I would build my mines somewhat higher (12-15 max though).

    And now some other stuff about the guide I thought it was fairly interesting, and an immense project to undertake, so nicely done there. However, just a couple of questions I had.
    Why thank you. Surprisingly, it took much less time than expected, which may be wh some things are missing.

    For the indepth analysis of the units, you quoted a number of resources/hour you could earn with them. How did you find this?
    I used a distance of 1 tile travel time at that units speed attacking a village with infinite resources, the exact formula is:
    ([haul capacity]*(60/2[unit travel time per tile]))

    You also mention that for a set amount of resources spears will perform better than LC, but with a set amount of population space, LC perform better than spears. I had always thought of spears being more efficient per population, gather 25 resources/pop instead of 20 resources/pop, unless you also take travel speed into comparison, which accelerates LC to definitely being better than the spears since they move at twice the rate. For a set amount of resources, does the travel time have any impact on that?
    Believe it or not (I am not taking into account build times here), the spears are more efficient because they are SO much cheaper. I took into account travel times in my calculations.

    Now jump to the building section. For the pph, what building level did you use? As I ran through a few of the buildings (I didn't test all), I noticed that there could be a fairly large variance(+- 3) depending on the building level used for each of the listed HQ levels.
    The building level does not matter (unless of course it is an upgrade to level 1), as build time and building point value increase at the same rate. So upgrading a building to level 2 gives the same pph as upgrading it to level 30.

    All I can think of for now, although I'm sure I'll have a couple questions later. All in all, I liked the amount of math that you put into the guide, as I've always tried to explore ways to use the formulas of the game to make my own gameplay more efficient. Oh, and sorry for the long reply
    I am glad you liked it. I am still working on some stuff (my current project is res per hour tables for every tile in a 15*15, which is becoming a lot harder than expected)



    @Killabeast
    Yes lets leave all the active players around so they can take away from you farms, build level 20 walls, and build troops for fun. /me does facepalm. sometimes you have to make your own farms as there aren't barbs around. Rams and Cats help push that. Not saying clear all of your 15x15, but eliminating threats is a very good idea to start off. Especially when you start in the core.
    Feel free to waist your troops. I have started in 15*15/20*20's of top 5 players, and made it top 100 until past nobling. Players like PP and pervis have started in the same 15*15 as other top 20 players and they have all been in the top 20, I don't see what your problem is.

    I don't like to continue to waste troops, it tends to screw up the return on investment.
    you misquoted me. I said that with a level 20 wall that occurs, with a level 15 or under, you only loose 2, and that is with level 1 LC. I have never encountered a barb below 2K with a level 15 wall. Now, I agree, LC dying does decrease the value of farming. But unneccisarily clearing players does this more so.

    Farm only 15x15? no I farm all over. Easily out to 4 hours away. Most good players do ;) I tend to clear most of my 15x15, eliminate the threats early. Been in a lot of top tribes trust me on that one.
    Again, this shows you are at best mediocre, at least in style. I can statistically prove that the later you clear someone, the fewer troops you loose. And I will:
    Let us say we have 2 players shall we, me and you, and both of us have a player right next to us who is playing defensively. You decide to clear him on day 5, I on day 10. If we are both equally skilled, and you clear him first, when the player has a 100/100 defense, and you have L1 axe and L1 Lc, and 150 axes and 75 LC, you will lose almost a third. This interrupts your farming. I on the other hand continue to farm at full force. This means from now on, I will be able to grow faster, and increase my barracks and stable faster than you. this means that not only will I gain the same amount of troops as you per day, I will gain more. This is also true in comparison to the non-farming defensive guy. Or, it is true if he is farming, and offensive. Now, if I wait until day 10 (and with my startup, on day 9-10, I will be able to make about 100 axes per day), I will certainly have about 1000 axes, and about 500 LC. Both would be L2. Even if the defensive guy had 400/400 at L2, I would lose slightly more than a tenth of my troops, and I am probably already beating you by 200 axes, so I lose less in the long run

    See Purple Predator as an example. Probably one of the best Starter in the game. Pervis is another. You don't kill them all, you try and figure out who will be the point whores and keep them around, they build up a village nicely.
    I laughed when you posted this, mail me if you want an explanation.

    Cats are very useful for curving farms. And for slowing down players that are building fast. Also very effective in later game strategies. A nice cat train can look like "fakes" being sent. Trust me it's a good idea to shut big mouths up that like to talk trash when their villages are leveled to almost nothing. See XLR w19 as example (Not the Rank #1 tribe in the world, but most tribes fear them, strong warring tribe)
    Is that not exactly what I said? I said "The only uses they have are for curving farms" You said "Cats are very useful for curving farms" 5/7 words used in your sentence were matched or implied in mine. That sounds the same to me.

    Low res mines aren't a very good strategy, especially against better players. EXAMPLE: w39, top 2 were fighting RANDOM and another tribe (name slips me at the moment), You were seeing back times of back times of back times of back times. no lie, you had some of the best players in the game and the back timings were crazy. Now getting hit you risk the chance of losing your entire farming or even hitting spikes. Those low res levels set you back really bad. Another Example was Ender_wiggins, a good player, who lost his troops and was at low res levels ended up becoming a farm as he had nothing to defend with and was getting catted and he had to restart.
    Wait, you consider ender-wiggin good, from what I have heard (never had the chance to play with him myself), he is a failure at this game who thinks he is good. Now, he was good a while back, but the skill of good players has increased many times over.

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post

    @Killabeast

    Feel free to waist your troops. I have started in 15*15/20*20's of top 5 players, and made it top 100 until past nobling. Players like PP and pervis have started in the same 15*15 as other top 20 players and they have all been in the top 20, I don't see what your problem is.
    *cough*cough* right next door to pervis

    Again, this shows you are at best mediocre, at least in style. I can statistically prove that the later you clear someone, the fewer troops you loose. And I will:
    Let us say we have 2 players shall we, me and you, and both of us have a player right next to us who is playing defensively. You decide to clear him on day 5, I on day 10. If we are both equally skilled, and you clear him first, when the player has a 100/100 defense, and you have L1 axe and L1 Lc, and 150 axes and 75 LC, you will lose almost a third. This interrupts your farming. I on the other hand continue to farm at full force. This means from now on, I will be able to grow faster, and increase my barracks and stable faster than you. this means that not only will I gain the same amount of troops as you per day, I will gain more. This is also true in comparison to the non-farming defensive guy. Or, it is true if he is farming, and offensive. Now, if I wait until day 10 (and with my startup, on day 9-10, I will be able to make about 100 axes per day), I will certainly have about 1000 axes, and about 500 LC. Both would be L2. Even if the defensive guy had 400/400 at L2, I would lose slightly more than a tenth of my troops, and I am probably already beating you by 200 axes, so I lose less in the long run
    By Day 10, I should have 2k Ax & 1k LC with them both at least Level 2. I can use world 19 as my example, where I made a good part of my 30x30 go grey. So your point is lost here.



    Is that not exactly what I said? I said "The only uses they have are for curving farms" You said "Cats are very useful for curving farms" 5/7 words used in your sentence were matched or implied in mine. That sounds the same to me.
    I said they have more then just that use, early game yes, but they are still very valuable in later game.

    Wait, you consider ender-wiggin good, from what I have heard (never had the chance to play with him myself), he is a failure at this game who thinks he is good. Now, he was good a while back, but the skill of good players has increased many times over.
    I know of a lot of people that would consider him good. Some were top players.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    I personally don't run in to many of those, or I wait long enough to noble them. I never waste troops, as it is more efficient. But, it is personal choice really, though I have played both ways, and I gain more going without clearing munchkins.
    I'm doing a start on w43 right now, and found one of these guys. He sat at about 1k points for a week, so I cleared his 300/300 troops before morale got the best of me and he's been a farm for several weeks since with

    Timber camp (Level 22)
    Clay pit (Level 23)
    Iron mine (Level 19)

    His village would've been a waste of a noble, but it's ideally suited as a farm.

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    You have a good point there, but I will say, if you play by the rules outlined here, you should have enough troops to survive most anything thrown at you. In most cases I would build my mines somewhat higher (12-15 max though).
    Yeah, I've played around with it a bit, trying nothing past 10 a few times. I think throwing in resource upgrades if you can't keep HQ going (so first week) makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    I used a distance of 1 tile travel time at that units speed attacking a village with infinite resources, the exact formula is:
    ([haul capacity]*(60/2[unit travel time per tile]))
    So for a spear, it would be 25*(60/36) or 125/3 which is 41.67? For the spear/lc discussion in the indepth unit analysis part, you mention that 12 spearmen would produce 540 resources/hour, but by math it looks like it would be 41.67*12 or 500 resources. What did I miss?

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    Believe it or not (I am not taking into account build times here), the spears are more efficient because they are SO much cheaper. I took into account travel times in my calculations.
    Ah okay, I missed that you didn't assume any future resources generated through the farming (even though you did point that out).

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    The building level does not matter (unless of course it is an upgrade to level 1), as build time and building point value increase at the same rate. So upgrading a building to level 2 gives the same pph as upgrading it to level 30.
    For this part, I threw together an excel formula for the comparisons, although I'll do it by hand now to double check. For this example, I'll use the barracks building and an HQ of 0.

    Barracks Level 2
    Code:
    Time(in minutes) = ([Base Build Time] * 1.2 ^ ([Building Level]-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-HQ)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ (2-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-0)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ 1) * 1
    Time             = 30 * 1.2
    Time             = 36 minutes, .6 hours
    PPH = (Points gained for level) / (Time (in hours) to get level)
    PPH = 3/.6
    PPH = 5
    Barracks Level 3
    Code:
    Time(in minutes) = ([Base Build Time] * 1.2 ^ ([Building Level]-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-HQ)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ (3-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-0)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ 2) * 1
    Time             = 30 * 1.44
    Time             = 43.2 minutes, .72 hours
    PPH = (Points gained for level) / (Time (in hours) to get level)
    PPH = 4/.72
    PPH = 5.56 (5.5 repeating)
    What did I do different from you?

    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    I am glad you liked it. I am still working on some stuff (my current project is res per hour tables for every tile in a 15*15, which is becoming a lot harder than expected)
    Excel is your friend If you want some help, I'd be happy to give it.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by killabeast View Post
    *cough*cough* right next door to pervis
    You or Purple Predator? I could not remember exactly who it was.


    By Day 10, I should have 2k Ax & 1k LC with them both at least Level 2. I can use world 19 as my example, where I made a good part of my 30x30 go grey. So your point is lost here.
    So is yours. I was using very bad build specs, as I would have at least 2.2K axes (done it before), and 1K LC.

    I said they have more then just that use, early game yes, but they are still very valuable in later game.
    Point out where I have talked about late game please.


    I know of a lot of people that would consider him good. Some were top players.
    Name them, as any players I know and respect call him a failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2004 Artemis View Post
    I'm doing a start on w43 right now, and found one of these guys. He sat at about 1k points for a week, so I cleared his 300/300 troops before morale got the best of me and he's been a farm for several weeks since with

    Timber camp (Level 22)
    Clay pit (Level 23)
    Iron mine (Level 19)

    His village would've been a waste of a noble, but it's ideally suited as a farm.
    By the time they have reached the 1K points stage, you are at what, 2.5-3? At that point, it is fairly close to nobles, and attacking smartly is OK. I do not by any means mean clear your 15*15 or 30*30 though

    Yeah, I've played around with it a bit, trying nothing past 10 a few times. I think throwing in resource upgrades if you can't keep HQ going (so first week) makes sense.
    Yes, I agree completely.

    So for a spear, it would be 25*(60/36) or 125/3 which is 41.67? For the spear/lc discussion in the indepth unit analysis part, you mention that 12 spearmen would produce 540 resources/hour, but by math it looks like it would be 41.67*12 or 500 resources. What did I miss?
    Truthfully, I have no idea. Sadly, I have no idea where that excel spreadsheet went, so I cannot give you my original formula.

    Ah okay, I missed that you didn't assume any future resources generated through the farming (even though you did point that out).
    Heh, Ok. That sounds good.

    For this part, I threw together an excel formula for the comparisons, although I'll do it by hand now to double check. For this example, I'll use the barracks building and an HQ of 0.

    Barracks Level 2
    Code:
    Time(in minutes) = ([Base Build Time] * 1.2 ^ ([Building Level]-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-HQ)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ (2-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-0)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ 1) * 1
    Time             = 30 * 1.2
    Time             = 36 minutes, .6 hours
    PPH = (Points gained for level) / (Time (in hours) to get level)
    PPH = 3/.6
    PPH = 5
    Barracks Level 3
    Code:
    Time(in minutes) = ([Base Build Time] * 1.2 ^ ([Building Level]-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-HQ)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ (3-1)) * 1.05 ^ (-0)
    Time             = (30 * 1.2 ^ 2) * 1
    Time             = 30 * 1.44
    Time             = 43.2 minutes, .72 hours
    PPH = (Points gained for level) / (Time (in hours) to get level)
    PPH = 4/.72
    PPH = 5.56 (5.5 repeating)
    What did I do different from you?
    I got my numbers from jamm. If you go into jamm's post that I hotlinked at the bottom of my post, and scroll to the end of his table, you will see a points per hour and a number. These are the numbers I used. I also did calculations for a few of the buildings, and matched his. So, again, I have no idea.

    Excel is your friend If you want some help, I'd be happy to give it.
    It is what I use.

  17. #17

    Default

    Holy crap this is one long thread.
    Spoiler:

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zamininc View Post
    Holy crap this is one long thread.
    ......yes, yes it is.

    On another note:
    OK, so I just updated this thread, and just as a hint of things to come:
    This is an excel spreadsheet I am currently working on, it will pretty much let you play tribalwars without a web browser, almost, but not quite. It will also do a lot of math, and have hints of Cheesasaurus's Ultimate Pointwhore Calculator (as I stole (with permission) a lot of the math from him), but will do much more. There will also be some things that I may, or may not release publicly, but those I will be keeping to my self for now.
    This image is a map of the area surrounding 500|500 (the 31*31), expressed in village ID's. I will soon set up macros to do this without my having to have the village ID's there, and I will replace them with coordinates. I will also get macros to give pop-ups of player, tribe, points, and growth (hopefully), much like the map for premium users. Barbarian villages are auto-colored black. I was nice, and gave a little teaser of the formula I used. A warning, if you want to attempt to imitate this, you need a server, or a VERY good computer. I almost crashed/froze my quad core computer.
    Spoiler:

  19. #19
    blocked
    Join Date
    2010,January 12th
    Posts
    210

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by the humble player
    Again, this shows you are at best mediocre, at least in style. I can statistically prove that the later you clear someone, the fewer troops you loose. And I will:
    I don't know who you are, but odds are killabeast is a better player than you.

    I've seen him play. I'm not sure if I've seen you play, but I'm going to assume I have as my name is one of the few you quoted in your guide.

    Regardless, you're missing 2 key points.

    Clearing is not always cheaper later on.

    1. The defensive player has a higher wall later on.

    2. Later on the defensive players tribemates also likely have more D, and they can support him so the likelihood of hitting a stacked village increases..

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Egology View Post
    I don't know who you are, but odds are killabeast is a better player than you.

    I've seen him play. I'm not sure if I've seen you play, but I'm going to assume I have as my name is one of the few you quoted in your guide.

    Regardless, you're missing 2 key points.

    Clearing is not always cheaper later on.

    1. The defensive player has a higher wall later on.

    2. Later on the defensive players tribemates also likely have more D, and they can support him so the likelihood of hitting a stacked village increases..
    3. Later on you have bad morale against him as well, since you're growing faster.

Page 1 of 8 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Rules

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •