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  1. #1

    Default Efficiency and Village Dynamics -A Guide By (R)ed

    Hello, folks.
    I doubt many will recognize me, so hi, I'm Red
    I've been around for quite a while (W6, to be exact), though I've been mostly TW free for almost 2 years now. This summer I was tempted back for a brief visit, and along the way decided I might give writing my own guide a shot.

    Don't worry, my guide will not be posted in Red


    Spoiler:


    Organized in spoilers to lessen the "Wall of text" effect[

    Edit: Thank you very much for the feedback so far
    Some very valid points and corrections have been made, but due to time restraints I haven't been able to address them properly. I will try to get around to it as soon as I can
    Last edited by (R)ed : 2011,September 12th at 22:25

  2. #2

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    Decent read. I don't think TW has ever had a 100% efficient account, and I doubt it will but efficiency is a key aspect of this game and one largely ignored by a large majority of the player base. Ironically I'd hazard a guess those reading this may have been inefficient whilst reading it e.g. troops returned whilst they were reading it which weren't sent out immediately.
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  3. #3
    Galum's Avatar
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    Well despite promising to proof-read it for quiet a while I never gave you any notes well to be honest, I didn't find any :P

    Well I'm a bit surprised that after all of our conversations that initiated this guide you didn't mention much about efficient farming besides the moving troops part (e.g. mindlessly spamming your troops won't get you as far as one might think). All in all, this is an excellent principal guide and one of the better ones I've seen in the past two years, along with Lardy's farming guide and Jamm's "basics" one.

    Well done

    ninja edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by twenty-five View Post
    Decent read. I don't think TW has ever had a 100% efficient account, and I doubt it will but efficiency is a key aspect of this game and one largely ignored by a large majority of the player base. Ironically I'd hazard a guess those reading this may have been inefficient whilst reading it e.g. troops returned whilst they were reading it which weren't sent out immediately.
    You should aspire to the highest efficiency level possible, it's obvious that you can't achieve it, especially if you're playing solo (besides 4leaf and he's a machine) but trying to achieve that level makes you better at this game. It's all math, the more efficient you are the better you'll do.

    Now if you'll excuse me, I need to start being efficient again and farm
    Last edited by Galum : 2011,September 4th at 19:08
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Predator View Post
    I guess that is why you arent as good as Galum

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galum View Post
    Well I'm a bit surprised that after all of our conversations that initiated this guide you didn't mention much about efficient farming besides the moving troops part (e.g. mindlessly spamming your troops won't get you as far as one might think). All in all, this is an excellent principal guide and one of the better ones I've seen in the past two years, along with Lardy's farming guide and Jamm's "basics" one.

    Well done
    Bolded is an arguable statement.
    Also, your siggy is a lie!
    My username has no bearing on my posts, sadly. I really am quite egotistical.

    [2/12/2011 8:39:38 PM] Jon / Morthy: ah shit, now im rank 1

  5. #5
    Galum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A humble player View Post
    Bolded is an arguable statement.
    Also, your siggy is a lie!
    Yes it is indeed arguable but I still hold my claim that efficient farming still works better. Then again, I've been out of the loop since Nov 09, it's been different then.

    And my siggy isn't a lie, I think you know why I'm playing this wretched game again instead of being somewhere near the west bank :P (that's also temporary)
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Predator View Post
    I guess that is why you arent as good as Galum

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Galum View Post
    Yes it is indeed arguable but I still hold my claim that efficient farming still works better. Then again, I've been out of the loop since Nov 09, it's been different then.

    And my siggy isn't a lie, I think you know why I'm playing this wretched game again instead of being somewhere near the west bank :P (that's also temporary)
    Well yes efficient farming does work better, however it is very possible to do well inefficiently - I've ran top 20 accounts using 10 lc + 1 scout scripts for example. Using a more efficient farming method and being on 24/7 obviously trumps spamming troops and being on 8 hours a day. However when it's farming efficiently for 8 hours a day vs. spamming troops 24/7, I'd expect the spammer to come out on top. If they both play equal amounts of time, a more efficient farming method of course will come out on top. Of course if the efficient farmer is only on 8 hours a day, that's inefficient (and I mean an 8 hour block here).
    Lisa-Jane.: how do you know when nick has bad thoughts ?
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  7. #7
    Galum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty-five View Post
    Well yes efficient farming does work better, however it is very possible to do well inefficiently - I've ran top 20 accounts using 10 lc + 1 scout scripts for example. Using a more efficient farming method and being on 24/7 obviously trumps spamming troops and being on 8 hours a day. However when it's farming efficiently for 8 hours a day vs. spamming troops 24/7, I'd expect the spammer to come out on top. If they both play equal amounts of time, a more efficient farming method of course will come out on top. Of course if the efficient farmer is only on 8 hours a day, that's inefficient (and I mean an 8 hour block here).
    True enough. Activity has the larger "slice of the pie" here as some say round here, I do wonder how efficient you have to be in order to out grow (or grow as well) as a 24/7 account while playing ~12 hours a day sparingly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Predator View Post
    I guess that is why you arent as good as Galum

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty-five View Post
    Well yes efficient farming does work better, however it is very possible to do well inefficiently - I've ran top 20 accounts using 10 lc + 1 scout scripts for example. Using a more efficient farming method and being on 24/7 obviously trumps spamming troops and being on 8 hours a day. However when it's farming efficiently for 8 hours a day vs. spamming troops 24/7, I'd expect the spammer to come out on top. If they both play equal amounts of time, a more efficient farming method of course will come out on top. Of course if the efficient farmer is only on 8 hours a day, that's inefficient (and I mean an 8 hour block here).
    Not necessarily, 25... I'm going to be pulling the exaggerated card, and say that if you are simply spamming 24/7, you'll practically be hitting empty villages with an excessive amount of troops. By efficiently farming, you can practically cover larger distances with less troops and less time wasted (as there will be less overlap). Of course the factor of competition gives the 24/7 spammer a slight advantage, but it's still not a very obvious advantage.


    And thanks Galum I suspected I was forgetting something. I'll be making changes/edits soon, hopefully. This is one of the reasons I'm so keep for feedback, people. Let me know what to add

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by (R)ed View Post
    Not necessarily, 25... I'm going to be pulling the exaggerated card, and say that if you are simply spamming 24/7, you'll practically be hitting empty villages with an excessive amount of troops. By efficiently farming, you can practically cover larger distances with less troops and less time wasted (as there will be less overlap). Of course the factor of competition gives the 24/7 spammer a slight advantage, but it's still not a very obvious advantage.


    And thanks Galum I suspected I was forgetting something. I'll be making changes/edits soon, hopefully. This is one of the reasons I'm so keep for feedback, people. Let me know what to add
    By spamming what do you mean? 1Lc to everything in an [insert arbitrary radius here] is generally a highly effective farming strategy, albeit grossly inefficient.
    My username has no bearing on my posts, sadly. I really am quite egotistical.

    [2/12/2011 8:39:38 PM] Jon / Morthy: ah shit, now im rank 1

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by (R)ed View Post
    Not necessarily, 25... I'm going to be pulling the exaggerated card, and say that if you are simply spamming 24/7, you'll practically be hitting empty villages with an excessive amount of troops. By efficiently farming, you can practically cover larger distances with less troops and less time wasted (as there will be less overlap). Of course the factor of competition gives the 24/7 spammer a slight advantage, but it's still not a very obvious advantage.
    I meant what AHP is thinking of. Spamming a few troops to many villages. Not particularly efficient, but not going to lead to hitting empty villages because you've just emptied them.
    Lisa-Jane.: how do you know when nick has bad thoughts ?
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  11. #11

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    Took it to the more exaggerated 10LC or more. Now that I think about it, it makes less sense, so not sure why I had that temporary brain dead moment
    So nevermind, please dont pay attention to that part of the post ;)

  12. #12
    Wallam's Avatar
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    Stop abandoning me to play your silly little national server Thats to both of you >_>

    As for the guide, You should put some pictures in, it will make a lot more people read it as oppose to a wall of text.

  13. #13

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    Sorry xD.

    Good idea, I'll try to think of something that can be added (though to be honest, I'm having a bit of trouble thinking of something visual that could fit into the guide, without going too much into specifics...)
    I'll think on it, but have any suggestions?

  14. #14
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    Hablard was the most efficient account I've ever seen.

  15. #15
    Dentarthurdent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twenty-five View Post
    Decent read. I don't think TW has ever had a 100% efficient account, and I doubt it will but efficiency is a key aspect of this game and one largely ignored by a large majority of the player base. Ironically I'd hazard a guess those reading this may have been inefficient whilst reading it e.g. troops returned whilst they were reading it which weren't sent out immediately.
    You are right about both things. Humans make mistakes, besides they occassionally need to stand up to get food or to the bathroom, so 100 % efficiency won't be possible.
    Also, I read this guide over 4 periods to be able to send troops out a couple times. Still killed some efficiency. :D And more while replying.

    You bring forth many good points that are not clearly stated anywhere else, by virtue of this, and of the general unawareness of them (or inability to apply them) of the average player, this is in my opinion the best TW guide I've read. Although I think it repeats itself at times to a point where it gets a bit boring, this may not be a bad thing for the players who really need to have these points repeated.
    I'll say my turning point came over three worlds, w47 after joining Hop! where I was surprised to learn what a noob I actually had been for so long, w49 in 1/0, learning a lot from listening to the hablard players on forums and tribe chat, and w50 coplaying with great hasoona and .united. where we started to implement our own versions of these new ideas. w47 was also the world where I really started to read the forums, this made a huge difference as well of course.

    I have a few points:
    - The math example where you have 1k lc standing idle for 3 hrs is a bit exagerrated. By standing your troops idle, you allow more time for your farms to produce resources, with more resources everywhere your 1k lc will have shorter average run time, at least temporarily. This is connected to another point. More lc = better farming income. But for each lc you get there will be diminishing returns, since your average farming distance will increase, the more you farm, the bigger radius. This does of course not apply nearly as much to accounts that don't farm a lot.

    - I may have missed it, but I think the hq is a very important point to bring up, namely the fact that it is the fastest way to burn resources and the fastest way to bring yourself into a position to burn resources even faster. This is of course also only relevant to relatively few accounts with high farming income. But faster buildings are of course not in itself not valuable in the same sense as faster troops, so it's not a simple discussion.

    - Many good players bring everything but stables queue to a halt upon getting lc. This is true. But I wouldn't always advocate it. In some situations I'm in favor of getting slightly slower to lc than the fastest and instead build up a higher spear/axe force, allowing an extremely efficient account to keep all queues operating 24/7 from the word go. It will require faster building of the very low farm levels, which can get annoying but I doubt it plays a big role. The situation which determines this is how competitive your area is. Spears move slower, and must be sent at bigger hauls (unless you have an equal amount of axes, that aren't very efficient at farming), so if others are flash-farming, you will need lc faster yourself. An optimal situation for me is to have market 6 or 7 (with 6 or 7k iron stored) and 200-300 spears when getting lc.

    - I like getting wall super-early, because it's ridiculously cheap compared to building time (thus allowing to keep the queue running while it might otherwise not have), and I find it to be very useful quite often.

    - Farming doesn't add much new other than 'keep your troops running', which is sort of a no-brainer. Lardings guide is awesome but I haven't seen the ultimate version yet. A humble players idea of 1lc mindlessly will lead to a lot of horrible death to walls. If it is done not-so-mindlessly it is the best approach in some situations. But maybe that's what you meant . . .
    Last edited by Dentarthurdent : 2011,September 8th at 15:06

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dentarthurdent View Post
    [snip]

    - Farming doesn't add much new other than 'keep your troops running', which is sort of a no-brainer. Lardings guide is awesome but I haven't seen the ultimate version yet. A humble players idea of 1lc mindlessly will lead to a lot of horrible death to walls. If it is done not-so-mindlessly it is the best approach in some situations. But maybe that's what you meant . . .
    Well of course I don't mean send 1Lc to every village in you 30*30 (however, on uk10 I'm able to do this since the barbs grow really slow :S), but doing it so they don't all die :D
    My username has no bearing on my posts, sadly. I really am quite egotistical.

    [2/12/2011 8:39:38 PM] Jon / Morthy: ah shit, now im rank 1

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