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  1. #1

    Default Mimelim's Guide: Offense

    This is hopefully going to be the first installment of many on the things that I have learned playing this game. I consider myself to be a pretty good player, but most of all, I have access to some of the best players in this game. I am still an active player, but as W1 winds down, I think that its time for me to share some of the things that I have learned. It is doubtful that these chapters will significantly hamper T:V in W1 since all of our enemies know most of this, or they simply won't read here. I hope that these will become a guide for the medium to advanced players here.

    Who am I and why do I think that people should listen to my advice? I am a member of T:V, the dominant tribe in World 1. I have optimized many aspects of this game and have been able to over the past year and a half experiment with different techniques. Unlike many players in this game that have played for as long as I have, I have also optimized the tribe level of offense as well having worked to eliminate over 20 major players. The original group that I lead in World 1 became the most efficient branch of T:V and while they are all exceptional players, it was the fact that we learned to work together as a team that made us some of the best.

  2. #2

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    Introduction
    There are three levels of offense in tribalwars. Village level offense, player level offense and tribe level offense. The key to being a successful player is optimize all three of these levels in terms of efficiency. All operate independent of each other and are all essential.


    Village level offense
    On the village level, the most important part of building offense is building the strongest army possible as quickly as possible. Offensive armies should be made up of three units, Axes, Light Cav and Rams. Looking at the statistics for each unit, axes are by far the strongest offensive unit produced in the baracks, the light cav are the strongest unit produced by the stable and rams are essential, which I will talk about later.

    It should easy to see that axes are better than spears/swords for attacking. But what about light cav over heavy cav? The key here is in farm space. For every two hcav that you build, you can build three lcav. When you build a full army, lcav are the better unit to build and far more economical. Rams, rams, rams. I can't stress enough how important it is to use rams for offense. An enemy's wall amplifies their defending ability significantly. The only way to break through heavy defense is with rams.

    Now, how many of each should you build? The optimal build ratio is approximately 6000/3000/240 axes/lcav/rams. This assumes that you have a level 25 barracks and level 20 stable. I have heard it over and over again, "but axes are better than lcav", so I should build more axes. I can not stress how misguided this is. It is true that in terms of numeric attacking power, axes are per farm space better for attacking, but there are important considerations. First off, this ratio, 6000/3000/240 is the fastest to build. You will have more armies faster if you build this ratio, which means you can attack more often. Secondly, most players build either an equal number of spears and swords or more swords. They also tend to use hcav which defend like swords.

    Since most player's defense's are sword heavy, having a higher lcav ratio is highly adventageous. It is very very rare for a player to build more spears than swords.

    Lastly, the 240 rams. This is the optimal number of rams for eliminating the effects of a wall. This is a complicated subject and is unbelievably situational. I will leave this discussion for another chapter. However, it is simple enough to say that you need 235 rams minimum with each attacking army. The extra 5 rams are for faking, which is a part of the next section: Player level offense.


    Player Level Offense
    First, groups. I recommend that all players have two groups (in addition to others that you might have). "Offense" and "Building Offense". I will explain what I have found to be the most efficient system at building offense both quickly and with as little hassle as possible. Lets face it. The more easily you can do book keeping, the more efficient you will be as a player. A skill that I think a lot of players miss is the ability to change village's groups often and regularly to make their management easier.

    Using the "Building Offense" group, if you have all the villages that need to build offense in one group you can easily see which villages are not building and which villages need certain resources. Since each village in this group is functionally doing the same thing, logging onto your account, within a few seconds you can easily do everything that you would need to to ensure that your offense is rebuilding as quickly as it possibly could be. No more remembering villages, no more searching for villages or forgetting which villages need building. Once a village finishes the army that it is building, it should be moved over to the "Offense" group.

    Using the "Offense" group, it is easy to see how much firepower you have at your disposal. There are very few instances when you should be attacking without a full army and by grouping your villages this way, you will again be able to see quickly how much offense you have ready to go. This also makes storing bundles easy, because none of the villages in the "Offense" group need resources for building troops, you can easily store bundles in mass with out worries of forgetting a village or having to go through each village one at a time.

    Keeping one's offense organized allows that player to become an effective fighting machine. It also allows that player to help other players out. The more under control things are, the more aid can be offered to other people, which leads into tribe level offense.


    Tribe Level Offense
    Arguably, this section could be several pages long, and maybe when I have a chance (probably when I quit) I will write up a good long version of this with high levels of details and illustrations. But this will have to do.

    Of all the places where one can create an advantage, this is by far the largest. With out question, the ability to cordinate multiple players' offenses is the holy grail of this game. Just a few examples of things that I have personally done with the aid of teamate cordination: Noble 56 villages in less than 38 hours with a single account, cause an enemy player to lose more than a million points in less than 48 hours, eliminate players in enemy strong holds.

    The easiest way of taking out a large player is through teamwork. Not only is it easier to take them out but it is more efficient. Players are less able to stack or play effective defense if they have to defend against multiple players. The key here is organization. You need a system for assigning or claiming villages. Spreadsheets work well, but there are a lot of options. The point is that everyone should be able to see who is supposed to attacking which villages and people should be able to see which villages they are supposed to noble and which ones they are supposed to stay away from so that their teamates can take them.


    A More detailed screenshot

    Another huge advantage of working in a team is that you can optimize resources. Many times a player will have excessive offense and few nobles, or the reverse. By being highly organized a team can utilize both player's assets for the good of the tribe. An example of this is in the sample photo above. Most of this kind of teamwork can only be learned by trial and error, but it is well worth it.

    Lastly, there is the issue of 'fakes'. Fakes are attacks that are mean to look like an army, but are in fact a single unit designed to 'fake out' another player. Clever use of fakes can be used to mask a tribe's true intentions. By sending fake attacks at neighboring players to a target, those players are far less likely to support the real target. But this is an over simplification. Most good players can see through fake attacks just by looking at them. So how do you make convincing fakes?

    I detailed in the village level offense section that each village should have 240 rams and that only 235 should be a part of an army, leaving 5 rams in the village. Lets say that we think that we will need 2 armies to clear a particular village, and we have two offensive villages to work with. By sending two attacks at one village and sending 1 ram at 5 surrounding villages, it is impossible to know which village is really under attack. From a defender's perspective, all they see are 6 villages that have two attacks incoming. If you do this with multiple villages, it becomes almost impossible to decifer and you will be able to clear many villages very quickly.

    Another common tactic against good players is the fake noble train. By sending four consecutive single ram attacks, a defender may mistake this for a noble train and hurry defenses to a village that you aren't really planning to attack. An added twist (kudos to burns for teaching me this), if a player is sniping noble trains, you can send an army from one village and then three single ram attacks and then a full army from a second village. To most players, this will look like a clearing army and then a noble train. If the player has been sniping nobles, they will usually remove their defense and let you clear their wall and then put the defense back after the first army hits. By doing this, you will attack their defenses without a wall.

    Without teamwork, this game ends up becoming a stalemate. From the recieving end, a well organized offensive is virtually impossible to stop, no matter who the player is. Tribes have virtually infinite time to organize an offensive, meaning that they can cordinate perfectly in battle time. Defensively, while players have a built in advantage (they can stack troops), as a tribe, it is very hard to cordinate on the fly, even if the attack is from long range.

    Conclusion
    This guide is aimed at players 100k points and up. I doubt someone with fewer than 10 villages will find this guide useful. There are a lot of holes in this guide and a lot of things that I didn't put in. Primarily because this is getting pretty long and because its hard for me to organize my thoughts. Perhaps I will revise this and put in more details later. Any questions and/or comments/feedback is appreciated.
    Last edited by Mimelim : 2007,November 10th at 23:42

  3. #3

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    I found the optimum army stats quite interesting.

    I normally use aprox 10k/2k/300 but I'v not often been in the situation where I need to rebuild offense at speed. I think i'l remember that for future referance.

    Cheers

  4. #4

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    Well, you have to remember that I'm going to be quite biased when it comes to that part. For most of the time that I've played, I've been limited by the number of offensive armies I've had. Every time an army finished I'd launch it. I'd like to think that it helped, but I can see the arguement of wanting an axe heavy army. Plus, I like the option of just sending lcav when someone gets a lot of hcav in support, it makes me very happy when I blitz someone with lcav and kill of large numbers of hcav behind a small wall.

  5. #5

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    Also isn't it good to make a village or 2 with only LC, as if u scout a village and it is purely offensive then u can just send the army of LC and quickly clear it....

  6. #6
    blocked
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by spleen mage View Post
    I found the optimum army stats quite interesting.

    I normally use aprox 10k/2k/300 but I'v not often been in the situation where I need to rebuild offense at speed. I think i'l remember that for future referance.

    Cheers
    use 9k/2.5k/300, it does more damage and is still faster.

  7. #7

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    Good guide mimelim, i hope you detail upon attacking strategies more, i dug this up and was taking a look at strategies used a bit earlier.

  8. #8

    Default

    Mimelim, do you not build any cats to destroy the rally point?

    Also, this 6000/3000/240 build doesn't even use all of your farm space. Why do you leave open space in an O village?
    Townian has officially launched! Enjoy while earning some $$$. http://qitz.townian.com/register.php?ref=Waterdrinker

  9. #9

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    Interesting guide, however I see no mention of cats. Do you find them irrelevant or is it supposed to be a secret?

    Sincerely,
    Daysteppr

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by waterdrinker View Post
    Mimelim, do you not build any cats to destroy the rally point?
    I don't ussually.. maybe about 1 out of 10 O's have 10 cats, they take up too much pop.
    Also, this 6000/3000/240 build doesn't even use all of your farm space. Why do you leave open space in an O village?
    Huh??? 6000 + 12000 + 1200 = 19200... Thats leaves you about 1000 pop.. hardly a "half"
    @Daysteppr

    Build 10 cats lvl 1 then revoke it... and even that in only a few O's.

    I have a question though! Do you think it would be a good idea to make a village of:

    6000/3000/450

    This would damage the wall a lot and you could fit it into a very tight O....

  11. #11
    blocked
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacredfool View Post
    @Daysteppr

    Build 10 cats lvl 1 then revoke it... and even that in only a few O's.

    I have a question though! Do you think it would be a good idea to make a village of:

    6000/3000/450

    This would damage the wall a lot and you could fit it into a very tight O....
    might as well instead of leaving extra space:P

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by sacredfool View Post
    @Daysteppr

    Build 10 cats lvl 1 then revoke it... and even that in only a few O's.

    I have a question though! Do you think it would be a good idea to make a village of:

    6000/3000/450

    This would damage the wall a lot and you could fit it into a very tight O....
    I forgot to mention, I just keep building until my farm is full, that is the approximate ratio, the correct ratio is 1.81 axes per lcav. Usually it ends up about 6k/3.2k/240 depending on how many points the village is. There are specialty armies with more rams or using cats, but detailing every single one of those aremies would take some time, maybe I'll do it later.

  13. #13
    blocked Angalo's Avatar
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    great guide Mimelim

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffer View Post
    great guide Mimelim
    Niw we need blondeamon to make a guide to defending:

    now kids, remember use a lvl 0 wall, and use your power as duke to get troops from your tribe mates, leaving them undefended......

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by waterdrinker View Post
    Mimelim, do you not build any cats to destroy the rally point?
    Why would you?

  16. #16
    Gamerdrw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacredfool View Post
    @Daysteppr

    Build 10 cats lvl 1 then revoke it... and even that in only a few O's.

    I have a question though! Do you think it would be a good idea to make a village of:

    6000/3000/450

    This would damage the wall a lot and you could fit it into a very tight O....
    I ususally have around 5 or 6k axes, about 2.5k light calvary, about 2.5k scouts, and like 118 cats

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by guardian688 View Post
    Why would you?
    destroy rally point so if the defender is trying to dodge and he hasn't retreated troops before attack, he cant retreat them and you get a free village.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerdrw View Post
    I ususally have around 5 or 6k axes, about 2.5k light calvary, about 2.5k scouts, and like 118 cats
    Why do you have scouts and 120 catapults in offensive villages? that's a total waste of cats and you could be building more axes / rams. Didn't you knew that catapults only inflict the damage AFTER the battle, while rams do it whilst attacking? (Also, build maybe 1 scout village or something, and never in offensive villages)

  19. #19

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    cats are great against 12355 vils, saves a ton of time demoing :D

    but ya, 6k/3k/240...
    is that all you can fit in your villages? I notice your villages are all rather... well, pretty random.
    Have you ever heard of downgrading to boost morale and have the ability to build more troops? I'd have think you would have seeing as how you're dropping all these "leet strats" on us and all.
    Keep in mind, not every world has, what, 500 member tribes? "Zerging" the other tribes isn't as much of a valid strategy. I applaud the intentions, but you must realize that your "experiences" are vastly different from everyone elses.
    -Only the dead have seen the end of war-
    -12355 is the new 1337-
    www.twsyndicate.com/Droganus.htm

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamerdrw View Post
    I ususally have around 5 or 6k axes, about 2.5k light calvary, about 2.5k scouts, and like 118 cats
    I pray you are joking
    -Only the dead have seen the end of war-
    -12355 is the new 1337-
    www.twsyndicate.com/Droganus.htm

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