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  1. #1
    68 Soldier.'s Avatar
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    Default Defensive HC Strat

    Intro:
    Welcome to my guide on defence troops, I've played since w1and hope to share my hybrid strat and the know how on how to defend your village. Bear with the long post, i sure hope it's worth your time. The guide is based upon a server without archers or paladins, as old units are my favourite Also, the time numbers are based on a speed 1 world, as that seems to be the normal speed.

    Written by 68 Soldier. (thanks to mim for tips and proof reading)

    Feel free to use the guide


    1.1: The Troop Counts
    1.2 Advantages
    1.3 Tech levels
    1.4 Perfect Village Build.
    1.5 Putting the defence into action

    1.1- The Troop Counts

    The troop counts are similar to those used in Openeye's HC strat (The TeachU textbook), however, are more HC heavily orientated than those Openeye used. However, seen as you can't pull in as many HC from nearby offensive villages, i go a bit more HC heavy than Openeye does.

    Defensive Villages:
    9000 Spears
    1800 Heavy Cavalry
    5-10 Cats.

    Offensive Villages
    7000 Axes~
    3000 Light Cavalry
    227 Rams

    Scout Village
    Scout Village:
    5000 Scouts
    8000 Spears
    280- Cats.

    Unlike the HC strats used by players such as Openeye, i don't replace LC with HC. In an offensive situation, you cannot use the advantage as the HC strat gives defensive wise shifting defence around, so i prefer to make the nuke as efficient as possible to attempt to minimize losses during the clearing process, which is ultimately what the Axe/LC/Ram combo does over any other combination in offence.

    Why 1800 HC over 1250 or another number: I prefer 1800 HC over any other number due to balance. It isn't balanced from the farm space aspect, however, it is more balanced in defensive power situation. It is more General defence heavy than 1250 HC, however, the 1.25k option can't be used as effectively due to you not being able to draw in HC from offensive villages. However, it still brings a big time difference over that of the Spear/Sword option many players use.

    Cats? In Defence The only reason ever to use cats in defence is if you have just been heavily hit. They are mediocre in defence and having 200 or so of them is much preferable to not having the cats at all. However, i always have 5-10 cats for sending fakes.

    Cats in a scouting village?Yes, i put cats in a scouting village so the village can be doubled up into a village to send cat trains from. ie: Waves of about 50-100 catapults that render villages useless that you either can't, or don't want to noble.


    1.2 The Maths side of things and effectiveness.

    In comparison to the defence strat of Spear/Sword, on paper the HC strat looks bad. In a Nuke vs HC defence, the Spear/Sword looks far more valuable than the HC strat can ever be. However, should you be disheartened by this, you need to open your eyes to the bigger picture.

    The whole point of the HC strat is the ability to shift defence easier and increase rebuild times dramatically. Shifting defence using the HC strat can be far more effective than the spear/sword combo.

    For Example:

    Last night on w19 after going out, i came back to 7 attacks heading at one village out of my cluster, I have only 100k points there and about 14 villages. This village had been gifted to me by a quitting tribesmate so, was slightly far out of my clusters. The attacks were not fantastically timed, however, without the HC strat the village would have been a goner.
    I had 3 minutes between the clearence and the first noble hitting, however, shifting my defence i dodged and slid the own villages defence in between the clearing wave and the noble train. That was 9k spears and 1800 HC i could definitely get in at the appropriate time.

    Defence so far
    9k Spears
    1.8k HC
    30 Cats.

    I could have risked it, hoped no nukes were escorting the noble. However, not being able to mark the attacks, i didn't have enough confidence to leave it at that and hope for the best. Luckily, i could get 2 full villages worth of HC strat defence into the village.

    Defence Now.
    27k Spears
    5.5k HC
    30 Cats

    However, due to the HC strat, i still had in my main cluster around 5 defensive villages under no risk of being attacked. So, i sent up all of my HC.

    Defence Finally
    27k Spears
    9k HC (not all villages were full)
    30 Cats

    His one nuke managed to kill off about 3k Spears and 1k HC between 7 villages.


    Summary: By shifting my defence and using the HC strat, i killed a nuke, a noble train and lost about 3 hours worth of building defence. I think you can see the advantages ;)

    1.3 Tech Levels

    Offensive Research Levels
    Level 3 Spears
    Level 2 Swords
    Level 3 Axes
    Level 3 LC
    Level 3 HC
    Level 1 Rams

    You are put at a small disadvantage in offensive situations having level 1 rams, however, still the chances are that other tribesmates will continue to use the spear/sword option over and when requesting support from them, the sword level 2 will make a huge difference to their losses. It's not just an advantage for your tribesmates losses, it's an advantage to the other members of the tribe and your own. By saving their defence, it helps keep you secure brings more advantages to the more defensive player than the disadvantage you get in offence.

    Defensive wise, it's the same as any other defensive village on the tech level front.

    Defensive Village
    Level 3 Spears
    Level 3 Swords
    Level 3 HC
    Level 3 Scouts
    Level 3 Cats.

    1.4 Perfect Village Build

    The optimum village build is essential to both offensive and defensive villages. Get the village wrong and you end up with unecessary bad moral and poor farm space, disallowing the troop counts reccommended.

    Village Headquaters - In many situations, 20 is the best village build. You don't Need to ever get it higher than that very often. However, what people fail to recognise is that fact on a frontline place, 30 Headquaters can bring it's advantages aswell. You have to compamise on farm space, thus meaning in a 1 attack Vs 1 defence village, you'll hurt. However, should you be on a frontline, your village Should be stacked. So, it's not about one defence, it's about your tribes faith and how fast you can rebuild wall.

    25 Barracks
    20 Stables
    20 Smithy
    3 Academy (or 1, dependant on world settings)
    1 Rally Point
    19 Market
    - A level 19 market gives you 91 merchants. Allowing you to pass packets around your villages effectively, 30k/30k/30k or any combination of 90k resources should be enough from one village.
    30 Timber Camp
    30 Clay Pit
    30 Iron Mine
    30 Farm
    27 Warehouse
    You should be active enough to cope with 27 warehouse. Getting it over 27 is pointless and gives an unessential disadvantage when it comes to moral purposes.
    10 Hiding Place - Often people demolish on sight, however, should you dodge a clearing wave, keeping those few resources gives enough to start your wall rebuilding.
    20 Wall

    1.5 Defending Your Villages

    Some of the main advantages of the HC strategy is the ability to shift defence, swiftly stack villages, and snipe between nobles and clearing waves. Without the basic knowledge required to defend in this manner, the vast majority of the advantages are wiped out useless.

    'Sniping' The noble

    [quote]Sniping, as it is commonly called, is the sliding of defence between a clearing wave and nobles. The advantage of sniping is the fact that you can maintain your losses to a minimum whilst also keeping the village and killing off the noble train.

    How to snipe

    Sniping is most effective when you have a premium account activated, most players should have access to one, so a few steps are based upon a player being able to use certain premium features.

    Stage One: Recognition of the Attacks

    Firstly, you need to 'Spot' the attacks. This step involves a premium. You need to try to be online to spot the attacks so you can see the speed of the attack and so you can recognise the clearing wave and to dodge the nuke and see the noble.



    Stage Two: Actually Sliding the defence

    You can do this in two different ways:

    You can use the TW stats attack planner and use it to time support in from another village instead of an attack. Just send at the time given, it's a simple tool to use.

    Or, you can do it manually and send an attack, and then cancel so the troops return in time to kill off a noble. This only works in defensive villages.

    By 68 Soldier.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Ending and summary: Firstly, thanks for reading. I apologise for such great length, however, i'm only ever doing one guide and i'm sure as hell going to make it right. As previously stated, should you wish, copy and paste the guide into your tribes forums. Just don't take my thunder ;)

    I hope this has made to see or at least consider the HC strat as being effective.

    Thankyou for reading, either chat to me on Skype or PM me about it, i'm happy to take on board comments.
    68 Soldier./Cult II --> Can't Stop Gaming.
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  2. #2
    Yellow Kid's Avatar
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    I think you forgot to put in workshop in your perfect village build?

  3. #3

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    Nice guide.

  4. #4

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    Nice guide to read. I always like to read new guides just to see how the stratergys vary between players. I like this guide alot tho

  5. #5

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    Not bad. Just three things I would like to ask or point out.

    The level one rams in my eyes really doesn't make that much of a difference. You don't save much between level 2 and level 3, and it's fairly similar between level 1 and 2 I believe. I don't want to go to the simulator right now, so I'll just quote a post by Free-eek (from the W19 forums):

    Quote Originally Posted by Free-eek View Post
    um...has anyone actually ran the simulator on the difference between having lvl 2 and lvl 3 rams??

    Let's say they have 10K Sp/10K SW and lvl 20 wall, just for kicks.

    Let's say you attack with, IDK 8K axe 2.5K LC and 250 RAMS

    with lvl 2 RAMS the results are you lose all your troops and they lose:
    5417 SP/5417 Sw and the wall is dropped to lvl 12


    with lvl 3 RAMS the results are you lose all your troops and they lose:
    5417 SP/5417 Sw and the wall is dropped to lvl 12


    A second offense of the exact same size comes in to finish things off and clears the defense completely knocking the wall all the way down to 0.

    with lvl 2 RAMS you lose
    3686 axe, 1152 LC, and 115 RAMS



    with lvl 3 RAMS you lose
    3685 axe, 1152 LC, and 115 RAMS


    Yep, those lvl 3 RAMS saved you 1 entire axe out of 2 full offenses.

    So I ran the numbers at 30K SP/SW and came out with nearly identical outcomes. Then again at 50K SP/SW, each time the savings was at 1 or 0 axe men by using lvl 3 RAMS over lvl 2 RAMS.

    The only real difference is they have about a 12% increase in defensive value.

    So, will someone explain to me the advantage of going with lvl 3 RAMS??

    Edit:

    Oh and I use:
    3 Spear
    1 Sword
    3 Axe
    0 Scout
    3 LC
    3 HC
    2 Ram
    0 Cat

    In most of my villages, that way I can quickly switch from defense to offense or vica versa. I also develop scout/Cat/HC villages for obviously scouting, and catting the hell out of people that bother me.
    Secondly, I'm curious as to why you chose 9k/1.8k sp/hc vs 8k/2k. I know in the second method the General Defense is exaclty equal to the Cavalry Defense, but I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on this matter. It doesn't seem like much of a difference either way to me (just looking at it). Simply wondering if there was a specific thought process behind it.

    Last thing, as for your village build, it looks almost exactly like mine. Only question I would ask is why do you go for level 3 academy over level 2? You should still be able to build plenty of nobles with lvl 2 once you get past the initial stages of the world.

  6. #6
    blocked
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    HP is debatable, as the resource to build up your wall on a speed 2 world will accumulate in under a minute. Not only that, you should queue up the building queue with Village HQ( in your case warehouse I guess but my whouse is usually 30) to save resources. Cancelling the builds leaves more then enough resource to make walls.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimelim
    Troop counts:
    9000/1800
    Personally, I use 8000 spears/ 2000 hcav, far more balanced and much better against standard armies since people tend to be more axe heavy than lcav heavy. 9000/1800 is very scewed toward lcav defense, I think balanced is better. It takes a bit longer to build, I guess that is a definate consideration (I haven't done the math), might want to mention that.

    Cats, I don't think you should build cats unless you have JUST been attacked. They defend worse than spears/hcav and rams are better on the farm space. Minor issue, but 50 cats is 300 population which isn't a nothing, but certainly isn't a make or break (plus I don't think you need 50 fakes from one village usually).


    Tech levels
    Tech looks perfect

    Village build
    HQ: For new players, your fine. For players that are farming a lot, they should bump up the HQ in any newly nobled villages (under 5k) so that they can get them up and running faster. Basically, if they can keep constant HQ production, they should bump up the HQ to 25+. And, yes if you run the numbers it does help significantly.

    Market: I always max my markets, but I also farm a lot more than most people (currently 550 farms on W19 with ~25 villages) so I'd say thats variable.

    Sniping
    Sniping section is right on
    My opinions from earlier on this guide ;) Good guide, thorough and well thought out.

  8. #8
    68 Soldier.'s Avatar
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    Thankyou for all the comments.

    Firstly, As for the 1.8k figure over 2k: Personally, i chose to go for a smaller HC ratio and go for the extra 1k spears. Like i said in the scenario i was in a few days ago, i couldn't drag in as many spears as i did HC. Thus making me very HC heavy. At the stage i'm at in w19, having those extra 3k spears isn't a huge difference.

    However, in a month or so when instead of one or two nukes attacking, you'll have four or five heading your wave, i will have more villages in a closer range to the village. Instead of a 3k spear difference, it will have a 10k spear difference (for example). Ultimately, the HC guide is made for later gameplay.

    Secondly, i chose to go for the extra boost in swords and a knock back in rams to help your tribesmates. Many dislike the HC strat and going for level 2 sw makes 'em happy.
    68 Soldier./Cult II --> Can't Stop Gaming.
    Product of TW | MuFFiN | Bio! | Kiwi

  9. #9
    WM21Batista's Avatar
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    Great Guide. I also have a strategy. Basically scout the village. This ia an example:

    The vilage you scout has 10 of Troop 1 and 20 of Troop 2.

    You add up the General Defence, Archer Defence and Cavalry Defence of the army.

    Say Troop one has 5 GD, 10 AD and 15 CD
    And troop two has 20GD 10AD and 15CD

    You add it up so 5GD, 10 AD and 15 CD times 10 (number of troops) equals 50 GD, 100 AD and 150 CD
    Same with troop two.

    In the end you find out which is lowest, in this case AD. So you attack with archers. About 7.5k at least.

    EVEN TRY IT WITH THE SIMULATOR, IT WORK

    EXAMPLE. SIM SAYS 7.5K MARCHERS BEATS 10K/10K SWORD/SPEAR SPLIT.

    WM21

  10. #10
    68 Soldier.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WM21Batista View Post
    In the end you find out which is lowest, in this case AD. So you attack with archers. About 7.5k at least.
    Lolwut? You attack with archers? =/
    68 Soldier./Cult II --> Can't Stop Gaming.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Soldier. View Post
    Lolwut? You attack with archers? =/
    Well they're better than spears against a 10k/10k stack... Not as good as swords though.

  12. #12

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    Very nice guide, it's actually completly identical to my own both concerning troop ratios, tech levels and village builds except for the academy. Level 1 pr village is actually plentiful unless you wish to have multiple noble trains standing by. Level 2 can be implented in some of the villages, to give you the opportunity of mass nobling in a large operation.

    But very nicely summed up and it's a good display of why to chose Sp/HC above anything else.

    Edit: Oh, make that scout villages too. But that's a very small minority of all villages(I have like 3-5 pr 100 villages). I rather have ~5000 scouts and a small Sp/HC force to dogde/snipe nobles as defending. I can't exactly see the use of 8000 spears without any infantry defenses as well.
    Last edited by Chief Ganja : 2008,June 30th at 08:27
    The Psychotic Harlequin
    W6: STTS2, W12: -R-, W19: X{v*}, W39: Random & KAOS W41: Gasp

  13. #13
    68 Soldier.'s Avatar
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    Thanks Chief

    Though i like to have level 3 academy, just because i want to be able to have more than one noble per village. Just my laziness though.

    thanks for all the feedback, i appreciate it and hopefully the rest of my textbook is up too the same quality as this guide. I am not posting anymore, i just wanted people to have a look at the guide genre before i hand it to my own future tribe.

    This method served me well, on both speed and normal rounds. It's what i use even if people differ to me.
    68 Soldier./Cult II --> Can't Stop Gaming.
    Product of TW | MuFFiN | Bio! | Kiwi

  14. #14
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    A well developed guide, some nice points.

    However, there is no need to max barracks as the difference between level 24 & 25 is nothing. Increasing barracks to level 25 is using up resources that could be used to build another noble.

    Code:
    24  	40.696 49.691 18.313  	38 / 259  	16%
    25 	51.277 63.605 23.075 	44 / 303 	16%

  15. #15
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    A level 24 barracks is something like 16.3% and level 25 is either 16% or just under.
    Either way, when producing 8000 spearmen, a level 25 barracks will save you 50 hours.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by WM21Batista View Post
    Great Guide. I also have a strategy. Basically scout the village. This ia an example:

    The vilage you scout has 10 of Troop 1 and 20 of Troop 2.

    You add up the General Defence, Archer Defence and Cavalry Defence of the army.

    Say Troop one has 5 GD, 10 AD and 15 CD
    And troop two has 20GD 10AD and 15CD

    You add it up so 5GD, 10 AD and 15 CD times 10 (number of troops) equals 50 GD, 100 AD and 150 CD
    Same with troop two.

    In the end you find out which is lowest, in this case AD. So you attack with archers. About 7.5k at least.

    EVEN TRY IT WITH THE SIMULATOR, IT WORK

    EXAMPLE. SIM SAYS 7.5K MARCHERS BEATS 10K/10K SWORD/SPEAR SPLIT.

    WM21
    Um...7.5K MA is 37500 population....thats almost 2 villages?

    And with a level 20 wall it doesn't even win...

    If you use a normal nuke then they would die.

    And the guide wasn't even talking about an archer world

    I think you are a very confused individual...please go away.

  17. #17
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  18. #18

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    well i have a question, how many defensive villages you make for every offensive one??

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barbaru III View Post
    well i have a question, how many defensive villages you make for every offensive one??
    It really depends on your area.

  20. #20

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    ok then ... in which cases you build more offensive then defensive and viceversa???

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