BA vs. S -- Stats

[DeletedUser43619]

Same could be said for you and MI.

You also have no standing in complaining about internals. For months now ~S~ has been recruiting new members on the frontlines, standing by while they get overwhelmed and then racing Apoc to noble them. You've also been keeping inactives tribeless or in solo tribes while you internal them, i.e. Kierfrey, and the amount of barb conquers to war conquers for your top players is a joke.
~S~ core players and leaders have jumped to the frontlines by leeching of new recruits. You give less support to your frontline based players than you do to players who have hundreds of their own backline villages to support a handful of their own villages. Being a front line player in ~S~ who isn't part of the core group is about the least secure place you can be. You won't get support and as soon as you start losing villages your own tribe will vulture in and finish you off. Is it any surprise that Goc players refused to join you and BA can't stand you.

Lol am I complaining? I cant see if I am doing at any where, why is it that whenever I point out facts people seem to think I am complaining ?

Also you seem to think that people dont get support, our people get it when they ask for it, and for most part several players are on the front themselves. We unlike several other tribes who have hugged their way to the top do not have a very deep backline infact our backline is prolly worth 3-4Ks only vis-a-vis several tribes which have several Ks worth of Backlines so our support has a limit vis-a-vis the huggers support.

 

[DeletedUser]

Then why club up and form an alliance of 10 tribes [now down to 4 maybe] ???
That means there is no purpose in forming ApoC other than just stacking a big alliance and hoping that no one can form a bigger one :icon_wink:

That's simple really, you give us a reason to, with constant barrages of "families are fail, your players are sims, you would never succeed against real tribes". As I'm sure you are aware, these types of messages on the forums were VERY prevalent earlier on in the world. They have since changed to, "you guys are fails because you use mass numbers" But the end result is that you have fueled our fire, you have given us the will to hold together and fight on. Without the naysayers and the desire to prove them wrong, we would have dissolved long long ago. In essence you have created your own enemy, and you have fueled us.

the strategy of indifference would have ultimately been your best strategy in fighting the UA, and possibly Apocalypse, although probably too late by then. As we would have had nothing to prove. But you gave us something to prove, and so here we are.

 

[DeletedUser]

I have made a spread sheet for these stats. Are we decided on the tribes per each side? I can fill it in tomorrow. Also, when did the war start? I believe I have ironed out my creases for the sheet and the test run I created was from the 01/10/2009 onwards.

The figures in my example below are false just so you know.

My plan is to have the spreadsheet split in two to take up less room.

So it will be:

Start | Finish | BA F. Conquers Within Time Frame | BA F. Total Conquers | ~S~ F. Conquers Within Time Frame | ~S~ F. Total Conquers | Overall Difference

Start | Finish | BA F. >> ~S~ F. | Points Value of Villages Taken | ~S~ F. >> BA F. | Points Value of Villages Taken | Villages Taken Difference (K-M) | Points Difference of Villages Taken (L-N)

Note: There's a mistake in Column 3 the date is meant to be 30/09/2009

~Truscott6

 

[DeletedUser]

I have made a spread sheet for these stats. Are we decided on the tribes per each side? I can fill it in tomorrow. Also, when did the war start? I believe I have ironed out my creases for the sheet and the test run I created was from the 01/10/2009 onwards

Approx. around 07 NOV 2008. BA took the first majority of losses of close to 100 villages at that time. Over the past few months it has started heating up since BA has gotten a substantial enough villages on ~S~' front lines to actually attack back with force.

 

[DeletedUser]

Truscott,
There is going to be a bit of a problem with your analysis, though. ~S~ has a bad habit of kicking players out when they begin losing villages... or when they get wind of planned operations from their spies inside BA.
We generally continue attacking former ~S~ players after they leave ~S~, so the stats will have a bit of a hole.

BA does not kick players for losing villages to an enemy, so our stats should be quite accurate.

I applaud the effort!

Is there a way to prevent the charts from pushing the borders out too far to the sides?

 

[DeletedUser]

We claim that you have no vision at all period.

I claim your tribe has even less. Ha ha! I win!

Lets check your basics....why do u play tw again? is it to send farming runs?
OR is it to come 2nd?

I play to kill time at work and at home. I enjoy the friends I've made here, and I appreciate the commitment that my teammates have made that has brought us so far. I continue playing because other people are counting on me to do so, and I still enjoy the game. I also have decided to continue playing until either:
A) I lose every village or...
B) ~S~ dies

That's MY goal. How's that for clear? :icon_smile:

Remember no one remembers who came second? You will not get any recognition for that. People will always remember who stood first and prolly who fought the hardest.

Everyone else will always be counted as an "ALSO RAN"

So do u want to achieve something real or do u want to be a statistic? It is in your hands to decide

Cue the music! Cut to the hero with hands on hips! And.... ACTION!

This actually reminded me of the old Top Gun line: "There are no points for second place." But not the cool one - delivered by Tom Skerritt (the teacher)... but the lame reprise offered by Val Kilmer's character in the locker room.

Dude... after World 18 ends... nobody will remember your name... or your tribe.

 

[DeletedUser53573]

You realize that this shows BA nobled 2765 inactives, right? You don't DOUBLE the number to come up with something approaching 5,500. Right?
Those villages are counted twice = Once as a loss and once as a gain, because that's the way you ran the stats. There weren't 5400 inactives nobled.
Likewise, ~S~ had 1,063 internally nobled inactives.

I dont remember claiming them to be? I just simply posted proof to either side of the argument.

 

[DeletedUser]

Also you seem to think that people dont get support, our people get it when they ask for it, and for most part several players are on the front themselves. We unlike several other tribes who have hugged their way to the top do not have a very deep backline infact our backline is prolly worth 3-4Ks only vis-a-vis several tribes which have several Ks worth of Backlines so our support has a limit vis-a-vis the huggers support.

That is such utter garbage.
Of all the stuff you say this has to be the biggest lie.
I'll refer you to my previous post.

No, what is pathetic is throwing more and more S members under the bus (the bus being the eastward moving frontline against Apoc/BA) all because they aren't in leadership.

I cant fathom why they arent able to get support when its routine procedure to stack leadership villages on the frontlines with half a million troops.

Some of these people are good players, sorinius had like 4.5million points in K45 when the frontline was soon to reach K45 -- anyone with access to a map would know that sori would be a big target that would be happening soon.
So did they stack sori beforehand? No.
What about when sori asked for assistance? No.
Okay, what about when attacks were 100hrs out? No.

dazzle24 wasnt offered assistance before he went inactive.
DJAllen before him wasnt helped as far as i could see.
And i dont know much about samsipou but I'm pretty sure based on OD gains and willingness to switch over to Apoc, he wasnt given assistance either.
The latest of people not helped by S has been Poffie

Not supporting your own players, who have shown themselves worthy to be in your tribe and not even trying to help.

That is truly pathetic.

Add the names up -- these are only people i know about directly.
These are millions of points of players here.

Since then Goulet (who is active) asked for support was then told support would not be given and has been booted for losing villages.

~S~ continues to throw its membership under a bus.

 

[DeletedUser82600]

That is such utter garbage.
Of all the stuff you say this has to be the biggest lie.
I'll refer you to my previous post.




Add the names up -- these are only people i know about directly.
These are millions of points of players here.

Since then Goulet (who is active) asked for support was then told support would not be given and has been booted for losing villages.

~S~ continues to throw its membership under a bus.

lol, seriously dude, quit making a douche bag of yourself.

I am in S and up until recently I didnt even know that there was a Goulet in our tribe. Our players WHO ASK FOR SUPPORT, get it - simple as that. I wouldn't have even known we had core players if I hadnt looked at maps, not one of them posted in our forums - at all.

If you truly believe what you are saying, then +1 for us cos you're just another idiot player who apoc has hidden in its ranks, we'll get to you.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol, seriously dude, quit making a douche bag of yourself.

I am in S and up until recently I didnt even know that there was a Goulet in our tribe. Our players WHO ASK FOR SUPPORT, get it - simple as that. I wouldn't have even known we had core players if I hadnt looked at maps, not one of them posted in our forums - at all.

If you truly believe what you are saying, then +1 for us cos you're just another idiot player who apoc has hidden in its ranks, we'll get to you.

I'll ignore the immature cursing, i guess that means im getting under your skin.



In remembrance -
I only wish we had a more even fight:

dazzle24 (3.3Million), DJAllen (2.3M), sorinius (4.5M), samsipou (3.7M), Poffie (1.2M), Goulet (1.2M). (I believe Andrew also said danny1041 left to MIM because of lack of support as well)



And i've been here on the forums for a long, long time, I'm certainly not hiding somewhere -
I'm right on the front where you allow member after member to fail without support.

 

[DeletedUser]

And i've been here on the forums for a long, long time, I'm certainly not hiding somewhere

Is that why your "join date" is so much older than his?

:icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser43619]

I claim your tribe has even less. Ha ha! I win!


I play to kill time at work and at home. I enjoy the friends I've made here, and I appreciate the commitment that my teammates have made that has brought us so far. I continue playing because other people are counting on me to do so, and I still enjoy the game. I also have decided to continue playing until either:
A) I lose every village or...
B) ~S~ dies

That's MY goal. How's that for clear? :icon_smile:

Cue the music! Cut to the hero with hands on hips! And.... ACTION!

Dude... after World 18 ends... nobody will remember your name... or your tribe.

hahahaha Epic Vision...keep it up it might get u one day to EpiC Fail.

 

[DeletedUser43619]

I'll ignore the immature cursing, i guess that means im getting under your skin.



In remembrance -
I only wish we had a more even fight:

dazzle24 (3.3Million), DJAllen (2.3M), sorinius (4.5M), samsipou (3.7M), Poffie (1.2M), Goulet (1.2M). (I believe Andrew also said danny1041 left to MIM because of lack of support as well)



And i've been here on the forums for a long, long time, I'm certainly not hiding somewhere -
I'm right on the front where you allow member after member to fail without support.

Lol Mr MacMan I can see where u are coming from as an FYI dazzle had quit long before the war started his account was being sat and it had passed sitter's limit.

Sorinius got recruited by ApoC within 5 days of him being attacked same with Samsipou, neither of them made any substantial ODD gains nor did they ask for proper support. If someone posts I need support in all my villages they typically get none. Goulet32 again never asked for support and is on his way to joining ApoC. Poffie was one player we did try to support whenever we could. And Ignore Andrew's garbage danny1041 joined MIM coz he fitted with them more than he fitted with us he was based out of K55 far far away from any of ~S~ core clusters.

 

[DeletedUser]

Lol Mr MacMan I can see where u are coming from as an FYI dazzle had quit long before the war started his account was being sat and it had passed sitter's limit.

Sorinius got recruited by ApoC within 5 days of him being attacked same with Samsipou, neither of them made any substantial ODD gains nor did they ask for proper support. If someone posts I need support in all my villages they typically get none. Goulet32 again never asked for support and is on his way to joining ApoC. Poffie was one player we did try to support whenever we could. And Ignore Andrew's garbage danny1041 joined MIM coz he fitted with them more than he fitted with us he was based out of K55 far far away from any of ~S~ core clusters.

Dazzle: By quit long before you mean Apoc launched (full power) on the 8th of October (took a while to hit) and he kept nobling until the 17th?
I also remember dazzle moving troops, something he couldnt have done if the sitter went beyond 60 days.
I believe one of my tribemates also saying they have a mail from him where he said that S said he was all by himself, i remember feeling a little bad for him, but didnt stop us from rimming him.

Sori:
Sori actually gained 40% of their ODD from Oct 10th till Nov 10th.
49.080.470 (+19.978.214 = +40,7%)
I should note that our attacks landed earlier than that, so most of Sori'd ODD is actually from the assault... but i cant get stats from that far back.
I know we have mail between Sori and Apoc where sori says multiple times that no one is willing to help.

Goulet32: I can say with certainty that Goulet is not joining Apoc since i'm directly part of that OP and i dont see a beneficial reason to let Goulet in, unlike Sori who has great potential (and has shown to be a good recruit)

Poffie: You say you tried to support Poffie? No way! While losing villages they barely gained any ODD at all.

Goulet, who barely moved troops at all, gained 3M ODD so far and we havent taken half their villages yet there is no way Poffie got support which such little ODD gain.

And Anoroc and handwerkj have both taken villages off of Poffie, i dont think that helps them recover.


You make a good point about danny i will not count them among those i pay remembrance to.

 

[DeletedUser43619]

Dazzle: By quit long before you mean Apoc launched (full power) on the 8th of October (took a while to hit) and he kept nobling until the 17th?
I also remember dazzle moving troops, something he couldnt have done if the sitter went beyond 60 days.
I believe one of my tribemates also saying they have a mail from him where he said that S said he was all by himself, i remember feeling a little bad for him, but didnt stop us from rimming him.

Sori:
Sori actually gained 40% of their ODD from Oct 10th till Nov 10th.
49.080.470 (+19.978.214 = +40,7%)
I should note that our attacks landed earlier than that, so most of Sori'd ODD is actually from the assault... but i cant get stats from that far back.
I know we have mail between Sori and Apoc where sori says multiple times that no one is willing to help.

Goulet32: I can say with certainty that Goulet is not joining Apoc since i'm directly part of that OP and i dont see a beneficial reason to let Goulet in, unlike Sori who has great potential (and has shown to be a good recruit)

Poffie: You say you tried to support Poffie? No way! While losing villages they barely gained any ODD at all.

Goulet, who barely moved troops at all, gained 3M ODD so far and we havent taken half their villages yet there is no way Poffie got support which such little ODD gain.

And Anoroc and handwerkj have both taken villages off of Poffie, i dont think that helps them recover.


You make a good point about danny i will not count them among those i pay remembrance to.

Lol just in case if u didnt know , me, Anoroc and a few others were sitting his Dazzle24's account while we could move troops

And we did noble all those useless ApoC front line villas from his Account since we know that certain players had quit on that front lol

 

[DeletedUser]

You make a good point about danny i will not count them among those i pay remembrance to.

I have to take issue with this. Remember, not so long ago, ~S~ recruited a whole bunch of players that were essentially refugees from the UA v Legion/G.Khan/Blade/T~S conflict? They were all strung out along Kx5/Kx6 and were, therefore, a long way away from the ~S~ core.

My point is if you don't regard a player as really part of your tribe due to his/her distance from your core then why recruit in the first place? Did someone accidentally type their names into the invite field?

If you recruit a player then that player deserves your protection/support. And that support should not be reactive. It should be pro-active. It was obvious that those front line players would come under attack. Therefore your leadership should have gone out of its way to ask if support were needed. Personally I would have insisted upon support being provided/taken as a pre-condition of recruitment/joining.

I can't remember Apoc ever recruiting a player and then dismissing their loss so easily. We have been approached by a number of players who we have had to simply say "sorry but no" because we did not feel that we could provide sufficient support to prevent them being consumed (AA style) due to their position.

Martin - who I regard as an honest player with the best of intent - clearly regards ~S~ as being more "honourable" than most tribes. Nothing I have read or seen suggests that this regard is in any way justified (sorry Martin).

If I were an ~S~ player I would already be contemplating alternatives based upon comments made in this and other threads.



Incidentally "honour" seems to be regarded - by many - as an unimpeachable trait that supercedes all others. I couldn't agree less. Honour seems to carry with it too heavy a dose of pride to be a truly altruistic or selfless trait. I tend to prefer the concept of loyalty but even that can have a negative connotation if it is blind.

 

[DeletedUser]

Andrew, You are dead on about my opinion. I of course like that you understand me and I believe I do you as well, at least most of the time.

Also about honour, you recognize the differences in our opinions as well. I consider your opinion more realistic for dealing with TW and the Real world. I'm more idealistic than you are. That does not mean i'm not realistic it just holds a smaller corner of my thought process than it does yours. You are a defender of Apoc and on Apocs pragmatism I just dont have alot of problems with the conclusions and process you are following. MIM and BA are not dealing with you well as often as I would like. It is setting them back and really hurting those who do.

I'm proposing a clear front and have from the beginning. I want people to face realities. That front would hopefully be(BA,MIM,~S~, at its core and others who would likely join) VS the whole of Apoc. This type of choice could have been made at many times in this world with several other primaries involved. It would more likely be MIM, ~S~ and company vs Apoc,BA. I just think thats logical. MIM is allowing BA to pick away at ~S~ but not forcing this choice. Apoc is reaping the benefits by not forcing this choice and MIM not forcing this choice.

In the end I propose looking beside you on the battlefield with respect and determination to support, coordinate, and stand by to those who support you and with respect and determination to thwart and eventually defeat your enemies. The longer these clear lines are not drawn the worse for the opposition, and the longer Your(Andrew and his Apoc Cohorts) side will gain ground.

 

[DeletedUser]

Andrew, You are dead on about my opinion. I of course like that you understand me and I believe I do you as well, at least most of the time.

Also about honour, you recognize the differences in our opinions as well. I consider your opinion more realistic for dealing with TW and the Real world. I'm more idealistic than you are. That does not mean i'm not realistic it just holds a smaller corner of my thought process than it does yours. You are a defender of Apoc and on Apocs pragmatism I just dont have alot of problems with the conclusions and process you are following. MIM and BA are not dealing with you well as often as I would like. It is setting them back and really hurting those who do.

I'm proposing a clear front and have from the beginning. I want people to face realities. That front would hopefully be(BA,MIM,~S~, at its core and others who would likely join) VS the whole of Apoc. This type of choice could have been made at many times in this world with several other primaries involved. It would more likely be MIM, ~S~ and company vs Apoc,BA. I just think thats logical. MIM is allowing BA to pick away at ~S~ but not forcing this choice. Apoc is reaping the benefits by not forcing this choice and MIM not forcing this choice.

In the end I propose looking beside you on the battlefield with respect and determination to support, coordinate, and stand by to those who support you and with respect and determination to thwart and eventually defeat your enemies. The longer these clear lines are not drawn the worse for the opposition, and the longer Your(Andrew and his Apoc Cohorts) side will gain ground.

I am sorry Martin but this post tells me absolutely nothing and at no point does it question / quote any relevant stats on the actual topic this thread was intended for! If you would like a specific thread where you can get on your soap box then perhaps talk to truscott about setting you one up, until then please keep your preachings to your ~S~cared tribemates!!!!

 

[DeletedUser]

I am sorry Martin but this post tells me absolutely nothing and at no point does it question / quote any relevant stats on the actual topic this thread was intended for! If you would like a specific thread where you can get on your soap box then perhaps talk to truscott about setting you one up, until then please keep your preachings to your ~S~cared tribemates!!!!

On top of mount Olympus stands Mr. Longbow preaching his gospel.



Meanwhile back on topic.
BA is up against ~S~ 30 conquers this week.Or 49 conquers if you count KO into the rankings (ive yet to hear a succinct argument against including KO)

Will ~S~ players continue to argue that this front doesn't matter?
Are they willing to hand villages over to BA if they decide this front doesnt matter?

 

[DeletedUser43619]

On top of mount Olympus stands Mr. Longbow preaching his gospel.



Meanwhile back on topic.
BA is up against ~S~ 30 conquers this week.Or 49 conquers if you count KO into the rankings (ive yet to hear a succinct argument against including KO)

Will ~S~ players continue to argue that this front doesn't matter?
Are they willing to hand villages over to BA if they decide this front doesnt matter?

Lol Mr. Macman had u been in the same situation what would u do? Other than spewing ur garbage on the forums?

So quit making ur comments you and ur band who dont stand a chance on their own form a phat ass alliance and then come to forums to make smug comments on tribes who play the game without relying too much on others.

We will decide what we want and which front is important, in the meanwhile u can just continue to spew ur uninformed garbage in the forums