The Resistance

[Serious George]

You always planned to war us. We sit those who ask for help. I think it's perfectly reasonable. What's wrong with that? We didn't have the luxury of sitting on the sidelines like you for so long.

We had that luxury because no major tribes declared war on us. For all the complaining here about Infamy never having fought a major war, we simply stayed out of wars until we were ready. You could have forced us into war sooner but you didn't. It won't matter how many wars anyone has fought. Only one of us wins. Either put up or shut up.

 

[DeletedUser117534]

You always planned to war us. We sit those who ask for help. I think it's perfectly reasonable. What's wrong with that? We didn't have the luxury of sitting on the sidelines like you for so long.

Al are you for real? You are talking about not having luxury to sit on the sidelines? You were responsible for every major decision TEA have made until you have left the leadership. It was going well for your tribe to the point where overconfidence and arrogance clouded your strategic thinking making you go to the end game war without securing your backline and with shocking diplomacy. No one can be blamed for this rookie move but you. If you were a bit smarter you could have had Dist and 2Hard on your side. To be honest I could not believe it was happening when you ruined your relationship with 2Hard. That was the greatest Christmas gift you could give your opponents and the biggest diplomatic blunder of the year.

 

[Seven Devils]

If you want the real story and not a made up one , with what went down with tea and 2hard i can give you it. Just hit me up ingame

Oh, and november is very on point. Tea played it very bad

 

[Mithrae]

If you want the real story and not a made up one , with what went down with tea and 2hard i can give you it. Just hit me up ingame

Oh, and november is very on point. Tea played it very bad

...whereas the 2HARD story is one of resounding success

Criticising the Distortion merge may or may not be a legitimate criticism of TEA strategy: It entirely depends (and as a 2HARD member, surely you should be paying particular attention to this bit) on whether 2HARD could be relied upon to act as a meat shield and distraction for BiP while TEA cleaned up its rim and expanded more slowly to the east, instead of neutralizing two of 2HARD's major threats more rapidly.

Personally, I suspect that if Distortion had kept the pressure on (rather than giving 2HARD a few weeks' breathing space while in talks with TEA), it would've only been a matter of time before shit went downhill, one way or the other. As I've said before, even as an enemy I very much got the impression that Ragnar's heart wasn't in it for your second big op on Defy. Holding off BiP for so long was a remarkable accomplishment, but as you've mentioned many times you were surrounded by enemies and there was little loyalty between most of the tribe's members and its core players.

So should TEA have passed up the great folk from Distortion given the risk that Ragnar would throw a wildly counter-productive temper tantrum over it? I dunno. By the sounds of it, Novembre might be talking about arranging a shared NAP or alliance with Distortion. Maybe that would've been better, I don't know - maybe Distortion would have mistrusted such a half-hearted overture and instead inclined towards the BiP camp. But since we simply don't know what would have happened in an alternative reality, I for one couldn't really say that TEA made the wrong choice.

 

[TheHans]

All Tea needed to do was restrict BiP growth, having 2Hard surrounding BiP did this. Eat their way into the SE and then recruit the 2Hard players. It's a simple strategy and would of given Tea a much stronger chance of success here.

I mean everyone not in tea expected it to go that way, and we're expecting a Tea+2Hard vs BiP+Infamy battle. Yet Tea suprises us with their logic once again getting their Allies to declare on them or vice versa. And increased BiPs growth rather than restrict it.

Very poorly played from a strategy pov

 

[Mithrae]

Sure - don't get me wrong, I certainly see what you're saying and how advantageous it would have been if that's how it had panned out. But again, that would entirely depend on 2HARD not collapsing and their leaders not feeling "used" because TEA weren't helping enough (as they ended up feeling when TEA did neutralize their second biggest threat and were working on the third!). Same as they supposedly felt about BiP, when they were allies

Maybe my own experiences with 2HARD are colouring my perspective here, but certainly I wouldn't be one to base a long-term strategy on having them as allies, least of all when the actual course taken should have been perceived as ultimately beneficial by 2HARD themselves! Indeed TMAC has suggested that it was in fact "cleared" with them, presumably same as 2HARD's recruitment from ANTZ was cleared with TEA: If that's actually the case I'm sure there was some reluctance at losing their own hopes of merging with Distortion, but still...

 

[TheHans]

Oh totally agree Mithrae. But Tea were doing alot for 2Hard at that point, and could of donated more D etc if needed whilst they helped clean the SE with 2Hard. But then no one knows what goes through Ragnar's head lol, so yeah they could of turned if they saw them just being used for Tea's advantage. If they were promised spots in Tea though, that would of been a reason for the 2Hard members to continue fighting.

 

[DeAdMaX]

We at 2hard told tea of our dislike of dist.
I personally was involved in the diplo talks right after they recruited dist. (I had taken over diplomat duties for 2hard at that point.
I wanted to keep our alliance with tea, but did we really want an ally that refused to give even the slightest bit of a compromise when they needed the points to hold rank1.
The answer was no. Tea can choke on one. Their arrogance was disgusting so we recruited wet and declared war as we are not a bunch of pussies affraid of attacks that tea thought we were.
Yes we were in a pickle at that stage and thats when the deal with bip came about.

Best move we ever made tbh.

Now if murph and mithrae says different they are liers. Mithrae prob still but hurt we rimmed him in the early days. And we all know what shit murph can dribble to try and deflect teas poor move and arrogant decisions.

 

[Mithrae]

Now if murph and mithrae says different they are liers. Mithrae prob still but hurt we rimmed him in the early days.

rofl And this is the 2HARD version of 'truth' is it? Bloody hell, I'm glad you show these colours.

My only three K45 villages were gifted to BiP more than a month after 2HARD declared war on us and weeks after I was the last active member of the tribe... and you claim that = 2HARD "rimming" me. This stuff is ridiculously easy to check on TW Stats, you know The tribe my main man Nighthunter began and I helped guide did not succeed, no question there, but with no members (including your main man Cheesy Puffs/The Big Cheese) really interested in taking on dedicated leadership it was never going to succeed, with or without 2HARD. If anything, it would be better to consider ourselves beaten by a better tribe than by our own laziness.

The experiences with Ragnar I'm referring to are the constant 'threats' of 80+ noble train or 300+ nuke attacks which were always on the verge of launch against Defy, with that "only 5 spots left" for anyone stupid enough to join 2HARD. They always ended up being about a fifth of the size, if that, of course. Let's not pretend that the fellow - enjoyable to talk to and play Civilization with though he may be, and probably even have a beer with though he's yet to take me up on that - is in any way honest or reliable in-game.

All things considered, he really did rather well with his tactics, as I've said all along and will continue to say. Just 'cos I'd think twice before playing with a fellow doesn't mean I'd rule them out entirely, let alone dislike him as a person.

 

[Seven Devils]

Thing is, we went out of our way to get a deal done with tea to keep the alliance. Murph and trex know, we wanted them to offer the traitor as a token of good faith. They couldnt even do that, at that point i believe everyone in 2hard council had decided to brand tea as enemies to the empire.

Now, don't get me wrong. 2hard wasn't as successful as people might think i try to boost them to be. Our goal was to 'survive' and yes, we did more dumb moves than smart ones - but that was the 2hard way.

Did defy put up a good fight? Yes. We have been told how much bip helped you, how much nighthunter screamed for help. Truth be told, we were so heavy on defence that our offensive was like a gentle kiss..

People like to tell us how dist was the enemy that was owning us, i just do not understand. Yes, they got easy caps on our weakest player, we didnt send much troops that way either? How strange is it that we lost a few? I rather lose 30 over a month than 300 in a couple of days.

Dist and ex 2hard is currently fighting, who is winning over who? Now that the 2hards major players are in the frontlines? Not as easy to tell us dist is 'owning' us anymore?

People seem to think bip never tried to take us down, they tried many times. Just look at tea, getting hammered on a weekly basis. That didnt start because we joined.. we Held our lines as best as we could, yes our weak lines faultered.

I always said 2hard had High tops and low bottoms, as bip now gotten our better players. Maybe tea have realised having us on their side would have been more benefitial than dist?

Truth be told, tea could have had both if they had sat down like adults and told us they see us as equals and promised to merge with us. 100% sure we would have accepted 8 of 9 dist members. Funny how things can be, another dumb move from us but got saved and made the best one

 

[Mithrae]

Did defy put up a good fight? Yes. We have been told how much bip helped you, how much nighthunter screamed for help. Truth be told, we were so heavy on defence that our offensive was like a gentle kiss..

Pretty sure the only defensive help Night ever got from BiP was three or four snipes in your first op. Obviously we shared intel with BiP, and Defy's northern members might have worked together more with them, I don't know, but in case you didn't notice there was a whole continent between southern Defy and BiP, who had their own defensive concerns to worry about too.

Ragnar's chest-thumping "Nighthunter has annoyed us long enough" obviously didn't work out too well, but do you really need to keep making this stuff up to pretend that you're so awesome and everyone else is rubbish? This is the kind of stuff that annoys me about the forums, the e-penis syndrome where you have to pretend you're so mighty that 25 co-ordinated trains two months into the game is your version of a "gentle kiss" but you still made everyone else scream and cry I might have to take a break from this crap. Can't we just acknowledge that you guys had some fairly determined and well-coordinated attacks, and took plenty of Defy villages; but a few of our members (including some now in both BiP and TEA) were/are good players too.

 

[DeletedUser118278]

I sniped personally sniped 11 trains alone in 2hard OP against nighthunter and the tribe, over 50% of those trains was against nighthunter

Others sniped other trains aswell, so we helped more than just 3-4 trains

Edit: Nighthunter personally called me

This convo is way longer with lots of old snipe info etc, so no reason to provide more spam than necceracy. But yeah i think we helped him out quite much since he said what he said here... and we did help him alot.

 

[Seven Devils]

Pretty sure the only defensive help Night ever got from BiP was three or four snipes in your first op. Obviously we shared intel with BiP, and Defy's northern members might have worked together more with them, I don't know, but in case you didn't notice there was a whole continent between southern Defy and BiP, who had their own defensive concerns to worry about too.

Ragnar's chest-thumping "Nighthunter has annoyed us long enough" obviously didn't work out too well, but do you really need to keep making this stuff up to pretend that you're so awesome and everyone else is rubbish? This is the kind of stuff that annoys me about the forums, the e-penis syndrome where you have to pretend you're so mighty that 25 co-ordinated trains two months into the game is your version of a "gentle kiss" but you still made everyone else scream and cry I might have to take a break from this crap. Can't we just acknowledge that you guys had some fairly determined and well-coordinated attacks, and took plenty of Defy villages; but a few of our members (including some now in both BiP and TEA) were/are good players too.

You misinterpreted my meaning of a "gentle kiss". As I said in the same sentence, we were HEAVILY focused on defense. Meaning, we had very little offense to work with, therefore it was a gentle kiss in comparison to what it would have been if we were an offensive or even a balanced tribe.

And what the hell am I making up? Can you provide me with one piece of evidence that discredits anything I wrote in my previous statement?

 

[DeletedUser119960]

meh Ignore him Seven he is just another TEA grunt, not worth listening to his words

 

[Mithrae]

I sniped personally sniped 11 trains alone in 2hard OP against nighthunter and the tribe, over 50% of those trains was against nighthunter

Others sniped other trains aswell, so we helped more than just 3-4 trains . . . .


This convo is way longer with lots of old snipe info etc, so no reason to provide more spam than necceracy. But yeah i think we helped him out quite much since he said what he said here... and we did help him alot.

7 or 8 snipes instead of 3 or 4? Fair enough; and looking back through my spreadsheet's edit history you're probably right: I didn't keep track of everyone's snipes for that first major op, but it turns out he had 11 trains incoming, 9 of them from far enough that BiP could've sent snipes as well as those we did ourselves. One of the short-range and one of the long-range trains were successful, but both villages were recapped. I didn't remember there being that many against him because I'm pretty sure the later ones were only 7 or 8 trains (though maybe I'm under-rating those too!).

But besides his K45 village that was the only attack he received BiP support for, wasn't it? For their second big op I've recorded 7 noble trains at him, all from King Ragnar; six sniped by Defy (one of those also sniped by OMGaHippy from Distortion) and one stacked by us, with no villages lost. Like I said, you guys were a whole continent away with your own defensive concerns, so please don't take that as having a go at you. And by the same token, whoever it was telling our friend Seven Devils that "nighthunter screamed for help" and got heaps of BiP assistance, I certainly hope it wasn't you

meh Ignore him Seven he is just another TEA grunt, not worth listening to his words

Got a nice skirt and pom-poms for your cheerleader position I hope? It's one thing for Deadmax to falsely claim that 2HARD "rimmed" my account - I'm here and reading and more than capable of speaking for myself. But it was a little low for Seven Devils be trash talking and spreading unsubstantiated rumours about a player who's never even posted on the forums; and truly pathetic for some low-life gutless weasel to try jumping in on top of that. SD needs you to hold his hand, you think?

 

[DeletedUser119811]

Are you serious? We had an forum with snipes you needed done, and we did all of them. Was over 20 snipes + that we did for your tribe. Stop make it sound like you managed to defend all that yourself, you would be gone if it wasnt for us back then.

 

[DeletedUser50733]

Yes, we had a shared forum, yes you provided snipes which were very much appreciated at the time, and I know I told you guys it was appreciated. We were thankful for the help.

However, to claim that you sniped all of them is false. I saw a lot sniped on the forum for others, but over the course of things (and I can't speak for anyone else, only myself), only 2/10 of my own trains were sniped by BiP. And even those two I also sniped myself, just to make sure. I think I even sent kixo a mail showing your snipes combined with mine and a 'thanks I think together we've covered it' or something like that. If you wanna see it I might still have the mail.

Also to claim that we would be gone if it wasn't for you back then, that stretches things just a little. Yes you sniped multiple trains - but I know I personally covered many of those with snipes of my own. So if you hadn't sniped them or your snipes failed, there was still mine to fall back on.

 

[DeletedUser118278]

100% of nighthunters trains were sniped by BiP without those very close range

 

[DeletedUser50733]

See I read it that Kreiz said all of the snipes were done, not just nights.

Meh, I'm just nitpicking. Fact remains I sniped most of them again to make sure, so BiP aren't responsible for us still being around. Although that would be kinda poetic if you were, being as we're now in TEA

 

[THE MURPH ALL CAPS]

2Hard are responsible for being around because of TEA. RIP in Peace Prince Ragnar.