lets settle the alliance vs. family tribe discussion, once and for all

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DeletedUser

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ToPaT said:
Wow answering a question not yet asked, clairvoyant much? Besides that reply was as offtopic as my initial reply.

But still LFKD = family hating family. Yes it may not be the exact same type of family. Other then that if LFKD is not a family then arguably SCRIOS/N/A is not a family.

As I'm sure if SCRION would of would attack JBclan for instance. I am sure that SCRIOS would not add them to their enemy list. Hence SCRIOS having independent leadership.

That is also the same with PKs, DFB, D.A. and LEGION. But when PKs declare a war on someone all of the other LFK(D) set PKs enemies to their enemies aswell.

I have witnessed that happen with LFK(D) tribes that are nowhere near the tribes they list as enemies. For example; PKs add ~TSE~ to their enemy list. Then ~TSE~ get added to DFB enemy list and arguably the rest of the LFK(D) add them to their diplomacy list aswell.
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Tom: Alcohol level: Low says:
http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?p=1522713#post1522713
Tom: Alcohol level: Low says:
reply pl0x



I see little to reply on, my dearest ToPaT. But since you've prompted me;

Who are you loyal to? Noone.
Would you betray your friends? If they irritate you.
Your tribe? Whenever things go bad.

ToPaT, you aggrivate me. Please refrain from speaking to me when you plan an never again sending messages like "you're nothing but the $hit on my shoes".

Good day.
 

ToPaT

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Slifilus said:
Tom: Alcohol level: Low says:
http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?p=1522713#post1522713
Tom: Alcohol level: Low says:
reply pl0x



I see little to reply on, my dearest ToPaT. But since you've prompted me;

Who are you loyal to? Noone.
Would you betray your friends? If they irritate you.
Your tribe? Whenever things go bad.

ToPaT, you aggrivate me. Please refrain from speaking to me when you plan an never again sending messages like "you're nothing but the $hit on my shoes".

Good day.
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Wow off topic ftw.
 

DeletedUser

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Ok, since the SCI argument his being brought up a lot again, I'll reply to it again (please guys, start to remember what has been said in discussions, now we're just running in circles)
I'll add some other points aswell, to make it less repetitive

Why has SCI been defined as a family?
1. They announce it on their profiles, so it's clearly their wish to be addressed as such
2. Each SCI "main tribe" (SCIOVA, SCIR0S and SCIR0N) has an academy tribe. The combination tribe + academy can arguably be categorised under families, but in this case, with 3 academies, I think that "arguably" part becomes less strong. SCI thereby sure does fit the mass parameter for a family tribe aswell.
3. Why they initially called themselves a family and which still counts to their family status on this day: they have originated from a merge of several tribes, including some families (of course far from all members of those tribes got to join the new SCI, they picked the best ones... or at least sort of)

As for SCI's current path, they've bettered a lot since their initial days, grown more organised etc etc, the recent trend of academies combined with their diplomacy whoring has damaged my higher opinion on them greatly though.

I hope I put enough effort in this post to get a more intelligent answer than most ("Lalala! I can't hear you! Lalala!" spring to mind, a.k.a. childish behaviour)
 

ToPaT

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ICECO said:
Ok, since the SCI argument his being brought up a lot again, I'll reply to it again (please guys, start to remember what has been said in discussions, now we're just running in circles)
I'll add some other points aswell, to make it less repetitive

Why has SCI been defined as a family?
1. They announce it on their profiles, so it's clearly their wish to be addressed as such
2. Each SCI "main tribe" (SCIOVA, SCIR0S and SCIR0N) has an academy tribe. The combination tribe + academy can arguably be categorised under families, but in this case, with 3 academies, I think that "arguably" part becomes less strong. SCI thereby sure does fit the mass parameter for a family tribe aswell.
3. Why they initially called themselves a family and which still counts to their family status on this day: they have originated from a merge of several tribes, including some families (of course far from all members of those tribes got to join the new SCI, they picked the best ones... or at least sort of)

As for SCI's current path, they've bettered a lot since their initial days, grown more organised etc etc, the recent trend of academies combined with their diplomacy whoring has damaged my higher opinion on them greatly though.

I hope I put enough effort in this post to get a more intelligent answer than most ("Lalala! I can't hear you! Lalala!" spring to mind, a.k.a. childish behaviour)
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Lalala! I can't hear you! Lalala!
 

DeletedUser

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I know that we added lfkd as enemies right after it were created.:S
 

DeletedUser

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tpwch said:
That would be impossible, as LFKD was created before the world started.
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that would be inpossible, since there were no players on W5 before the world was created. :icon_neutral:
 

tpwch

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rowanbaen said:
that would be inpossible, since there were no players on W5 before the world was created. :icon_neutral:
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Not really, we talked on an IRC chat about it. There are other ways of communicating than in-game mails.
 

DeletedUser

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No we added lfkd as an enemy the secound after we created TSE.:p
 

DeletedUser

Guest
ICECO said:
Ok, since the SCI argument his being brought up a lot again, I'll reply to it again (please guys, start to remember what has been said in discussions, now we're just running in circles)
I'll add some other points aswell, to make it less repetitive

Why has SCI been defined as a family?
1. They announce it on their profiles, so it's clearly their wish to be addressed as such
2. Each SCI "main tribe" (SCIOVA, SCIR0S and SCIR0N) has an academy tribe. The combination tribe + academy can arguably be categorised under families, but in this case, with 3 academies, I think that "arguably" part becomes less strong. SCI thereby sure does fit the mass parameter for a family tribe aswell.
3. Why they initially called themselves a family and which still counts to their family status on this day: they have originated from a merge of several tribes, including some families (of course far from all members of those tribes got to join the new SCI, they picked the best ones... or at least sort of)
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I don't recall us sitting around debating on whether we were a "family" or an "alliance" - Family came up and we stuck with it. I am pretty sure the Profile for each of us has not changes much since the early days. When the original SCI Tribe decided to split into three it was for geographic reasons - just too far from each other. Council Members from each area were given the assignment to figure out the best way to survive in each of our areas - SCIOVA was first (THEMOB and others) then SCIR0S, SCIR0N with R0han - and the rest is as they say history. We stuck together because we are all still game friends, many of us going back to the early days of W5. I suspect that we run the "family" much like LFKD runs their "alliance" though because of geography there is less tactical coordination on our part. It's all semantics from where I am sitting.

ICECO said:
As for SCI's current path, they've bettered a lot since their initial days, grown more organised etc etc, the recent trend of academies combined with their diplomacy whoring has damaged my higher opinion on them greatly though.

I hope I put enough effort in this post to get a more intelligent answer than most ("Lalala! I can't hear you! Lalala!" spring to mind, a.k.a. childish behaviour)
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SCIR0S was the first SCI Tribe to have an "academy". There was a lot of debate in the Family and in the end we all decided to do this in each our own way. I can't comment on the other SCI Tribes, but SCIR0S does not consider SCIRSA an academy.

As for whoring diplomacy, that is one way of describing it. What really happened is the Dukes of each tribe submitted each of our Diplomacy lists, debated who should stay or go; and also decided to keep the Ally part the same for all SCI Tribes. This was done mostly for constancy and making the jobs of the Diplomats in each SCI Tribe easier.

NAP's given its nature, was decided to keep a local thing, though some NAP's are shared depending on geography.

Enemies: Consistent throughout the family. Even if geography is an issue we will at the least support our mates in any way that makes sense.
 

DeletedUser

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I have an idea, I think it's the same as tpwch's in starting this thread that propagandist decided to derail.

How would you describe the difference between and Alliance and a Family Tribe to a friend that just started to play TW?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Both are forms of organization between two or more tribes that share the same in game strategy and ideas. So basically, it's wrong to mistake one form with another, as each is unique in it's own way.

If you want me to describe the alliance form and the family form, this is my opinion :

Alliance = form of organization between several independent (more or less, as no tribe is truly independent) tribes. Each tribe have it's own independent leadership and all tribes cooperate for the general good.

Family = form of organization between several tribes that answer to one main tribe and leadership. All tribes play and cooperate for the good of the main tribe. It's like an imperium if you like and beside fighting, mass recruiting it's another way of expanding. Some might despise it but don't be mistaken ... it can lead to winning the world.

If one friend would come to me asking if he should join a family or an independent tribe, i would encourage him to join the independent tribe. My personal opinion is that families promote incompetence in a way and therefore ruin the fun for their players. Also the family form imply sacrificing some of it's own players along the way which is kind of unfair.

Now ... about who is family and who is alliance in W5, it's just a matter of interpretation and PnP mostly => this debate will never stop :lol: (sorry tpwch).
 

ToPaT

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Simply change the word "alliance" on the LFKD tribes profile to "family" Then what do you know it looks incredibly familiar to a family tribe listing its family.

LFK(D) is a family tribe which has just labeled itself an alliance. They could call it the "LFK(D) school for mentally retarded monkeys" if they like it's just a silly little label they use to make them look better then everyone else.
 

DeletedUser

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tpwch said:
Not really, we talked on an IRC chat about it. There are other ways of communicating than in-game mails.
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:lol:
Actually I remember that LoTD wasn't all that good in PKs/DFB's eyes back then.
 

DeletedUser

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Family: 2 or more tribes that agree to be allies and cooperate when logistically possible.

Allaince: 2 or more tribes that agree to be allies and cooperate when logistically possible.
--------------------------------

Official Difference: Leadership makes either good or bad.

PnP Difference: Family is used as a bad word by members of an alliance.
 

DeletedUser

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ToPaT said:
Simply change the word "alliance" on the LFKD tribes profile to "family" Then what do you know it looks incredibly familiar to a family tribe listing its family.

LFK(D) is a family tribe which has just labeled itself an alliance. They could call it the "LFK(D) school for mentally retarded monkeys" if they like it's just a silly little label they use to make them look better then everyone else.
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I see this as your total downfall. I'm not even intersted in what you said anymore, I just wanted to point the bolded part out:
Let's see, who started this? Vojd, because D.A. disbanded, so he found it legitimate to remove the "D" (although "LFKD" is more of a word on itself, rather than a contraction of the 4 tribes' names - although fully inspired on them, granted)
Now unfortunately D.A. is back, ToPaT, so I think we can conclude you mindlessly (1) copied vojd (2). Two very very bad things.

Koht said:
:lol:
Actually I remember that LoTD wasn't all that good in PKs/DFB's eyes back then.
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Actually there was almost always one LFKD tribe a bit behind the others. In the beginning D.A. was first, PKs second, DFB somewhere 4th and LotD 7th or so; everything changed to PKs and DFB on top, LotD 4th and D.A. falling; now PKs and LEGION are high and both DFB and D.A. low (the latter because it's newly formed and is quite obviously meant for the smaller players),
we've learnt to live with that and don't make any categorisation based on the rankings as every tribe has had it's high and low, of course we have a great deal of respect for PKs, as they've hold the top spot for the longest time without doubt.
 

DeletedUser23324

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spam cat said:
A perfectly sound topic that does not at any stage attempt to pick on a tribe or flame them. Still it wouldn't be w5 pnp without someone attempting to

*Flame it.

*Try and change the agenda to their own goals.

*Pick on one tiny asspect of the post and only talk about that.

*Add delibrate things to their posts to try to up a responce, Vojd a excellent example with sayings like LFK(D) and PKs/EA...

etc etc..

Or maybe this wont happen for once?


Either way my view on family tribes is very different,


A family tribe is any tribe that has low barriers to entry for recruitment and diplomacy.

Common characteristics are

*High number of players,

*High number of alliances and NAPS,

*Little or no gaming philosophy above having fun,

*A mass group mentality, high lack of individualism.


The number of sister tribes etc is irrelivant as essentially for example, if one tribe had 3 lots of 60 players and another had just 180 players, that does not make either a family tribe. IMO.


As a player from Travian this is my personal view point of what i'd call a family tribe. Also i'd refer to them as Sim tribes...
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*whisles*
 

DeletedUser

Guest
spam cat said:
*whisles*
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:icon_wink:


Gah, I'll give my opinion, I guess:

Family
- it's more of a quality label (used in propaganda, and quite heavily here in w5)
- one central power directing all hundreds of players
- closely related names
- what aquarium said

Alliance
- quality label again
- total chaos in leadership, aka freedom and independance
- random names, and mostly the funny ones (LotD - Lord of the Dildos, never grow tired of it)
- what aquarium said again
 
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