HQ Upgrade Question

DeletedUser

Guest
I remember having an argument with mohua two years ago whether it's enough to upgrade your HQ when you can run it 24/7 or if it's more profitable to do it before.

My argument was that upgrading your HQ is an unnecessary expense that spends resources and thus delays the time you start building mines.

His argument was that upgrading your HQ makes mines complete faster which means that after a certain amount of mine upgrades your resource production will get ahead of the persons that only upgraded the HQ when really necessary.

So... someone who is good at math - enlighten me please and share when to upgrade HQ - preferably with some shiny proof like graphs or stuff. :icon_smile:
 

DeletedUser104070

Guest
This question has been bugging me too. Need some brains to work it out please :lol:
 

dunn61984

Guest
The most profitable time to upgrade hq is when you can slide in levels without having to halt your hq queue. If you upgrade hq prior to getting 24/7 queues, then any benefit in terms of time you would receive would be negated by hq idling times. So as early as possible once you are running 24/7, but making sure that the hq upgrades do not impact on your queue

ps, there was a guide on it a few years back, but tw has since changed the build times for each level so you would need to crunch alot of numbers to work out the exact time saved by each upgrade and deduct any idling time to work out profitablity
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Not sure really, can't remember 61 think I did it about 17/18 mines there.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
its worth it the moment hq lvls speed up mines aka
when you can que mines before the other finishes you have to do a few hq lvls

some in my tribe have lvl 5-10 hq but they arent ahead in mines of me with lvl 3 hq. im even ahead (well not anymore i redlined but we are still on same lvl)
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Heya SF, it's Mr_Fitzwilliam_Darcy, remember me from W56, I co-played you on Sqid :icon_smile:
I can't believe you still play this lol... I got way better as well.
What's your IGN, if you play this world?

With your question, obviously it's all about finding the perfect balance, and it's very debatable.
I think it's all about how much you farm and how good your farms are. If you get really good farms, then obviously you upgrade your HQ first and don't need to worry about your mines.

In a limited haul world, mines are more important because it takes longer to get the resources for each upgrade, and so upgrade times aren't important. Personally I think upgrading to HQ in a limited haul world is kinda pointless, I'd rather save up to upgrade mines for more resource income. It's not like you're gonna be getting lots of resources to upgrade stuff a lot.
Of course you can crunch all the numbers for W69 and suppose you got max haul every single day and stuff, but that'll take a while.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
dunn61984 said:
The most profitable time to upgrade hq is when you can slide in levels without having to halt your hq queue. If you upgrade hq prior to getting 24/7 queues, then any benefit in terms of time you would receive would be negated by hq idling times. So as early as possible once you are running 24/7, but making sure that the hq upgrades do not impact on your queue

ps, there was a guide on it a few years back, but tw has since changed the build times for each level so you would need to crunch alot of numbers to work out the exact time saved by each upgrade and deduct any idling time to work out profitablity
Click to expand...

I think you, an others, might have missed SacredFools/Mohuas point. They acknowledged that quicker build times will be countered by HQ's idling while waiting for resources, but the problem is more complicated than that. Upgrading HQ when reaching the ability to keep constant queues is a given.

Say, for example, that I have a higher HQ level than you. We both queue Clay pit 20 at the same time, but my pit finishes 1 hour before yours does due to my higher HQ level. I still need to wait 1 hour to gather enough resources to queue Timber camp 20, so we will both be able queue it at the same time. However, for 1 hour I will have clay pit 20 compared to your clay pit 19, which will mean I now have 150 clay more than you (1060 res/h compared to 910 res/h). The question is, when will the benefit of my '150 clay' increases outweigh the time and cost of upgrading HQ levels. Especially when we get to larger mines, there will be gaps of several hours in build time depending on your HQ level.

Unfortunately, my maths and knowledge of the game is couldn't enough to answer your question SF, nor is that my style of play. In my opinion, the difference it would make would be quite minimal, but I'd be interested in seeing if anyone does do the maths.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
if memory serves, it is about 20ish pits, because its something like hq knocks off 2% build time, which may only be around 5 minutes ish from a pit, while it takes 6 minutes to build the hq up, not including time to gather the resources to build it, which may be around 20 minutes. there was some maths somewhere, i believe it was early game w65.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
AP is totally right.

I already run a few numbers and to give you a quick example, I right now have 16/16/14 mines and a level 7 HQ. If I upgrade to level 8 I will be set back about 45 minutes BUT the fact my mines build faster will mean I'll get those 45 minutes back and break even after I finish first level 23 mine.

I have too much free time on my hands.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Ohhh, Ohhh. I LIKE MATH!!!! :D

I'm really into game theory and I want to examine the mechanics of this game in great detail some time and write a few proofs about the most effective playing style for practice sometime. But I want to tackle chess first before starting something enormously difficult.
 

dunn61984

Guest
sacredfool said:
AP is totally right.

I already run a few numbers and to give you a quick example, I right now have 16/16/14 mines and a level 7 HQ. If I upgrade to level 8 I will be set back about 45 minutes BUT the fact my mines build faster will mean I'll get those 45 minutes back and break even after I finish first level 23 mine.

I have too much free time on my hands.
Click to expand...

I am confused as to what you mean by breaking even? do you mean that if you build level 8 hq now and the pushed to 23mines from there, you would reach your level 23 mines at the same time as someone who left their hq at 7, giving you a higher hq and therefore in a better position?
 

Subwind

Guest
sacredfool said:
AP is totally right.

I already run a few numbers and to give you a quick example, I right now have 16/16/14 mines and a level 7 HQ. If I upgrade to level 8 I will be set back about 45 minutes BUT the fact my mines build faster will mean I'll get those 45 minutes back and break even after I finish first level 23 mine.

I have too much free time on my hands.
Click to expand...

Isn't there an excel spreadsheet somewhere that has all these calcs built in?

EDIT: There is, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46873347/tribal_wars/Construction Planner v2.41.xls

It's made by cheesasaurus.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
dunn61984 said:
I am confused as to what you mean by breaking even? do you mean that if you build level 8 hq now and the pushed to 23mines from there, you would reach your level 23 mines at the same time as someone who left their hq at 7, giving you a higher hq and therefore in a better position?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Subwind said:
Isn't there an excel spreadsheet somewhere that has all these calcs built in?

EDIT: There is, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46873347/tribal_wars/Construction Planner v2.41.xls

It's made by cheesasaurus.
Click to expand...

EDIT: Actually thank you, I managed to work some stuff out. I have an improved version, right now it's not very useful but the fact you linked me to the original version helped me modify Muldies.
 
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2hot2handle

2hot2handle

Contributing Poster
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13
Briefly...

The maths has been done and proved ineffective.
You only need to oversleep or be attacked to completely disregard any plan.
How much you haul / trade obviously effects when you are next able to enter a building in the queue and this is unpredictable.
Adapt and use common sense. As you build each building you need to be continually working out which is the most efficient way to proceed. You cannot do this from 1/1/1 as there are far too many variables.
 
busamad

busamad

Contributing Poster
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I tend to go for when able to make the click to upgrade more than when its best as sure you may have the fastest build & resource gain but its worthless if its 2 in the morning when its needed to be added.

If I remember rightly I think it worked out at a couple of HQ's then a round of mines once L16 was built. Upto the point of cats & then shaping villages helped push resources very fast.
 

A humble player

Guest
sacredfool said:
I remember having an argument with mohua two years ago whether it's enough to upgrade your HQ when you can run it 24/7 or if it's more profitable to do it before.

My argument was that upgrading your HQ is an unnecessary expense that spends resources and thus delays the time you start building mines.

His argument was that upgrading your HQ makes mines complete faster which means that after a certain amount of mine upgrades your resource production will get ahead of the persons that only upgraded the HQ when really necessary.

So... someone who is good at math - enlighten me please and share when to upgrade HQ - preferably with some shiny proof like graphs or stuff. :icon_smile:
Click to expand...
When I did the math, I think I found that on no hauls it was better to upgrade before constant mines, but only by like a mine level, so you were never quite constant. However, I doubt the difference it big.
 
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