Discussion: Clarifying our intentions

DeletedUser656

Guest
Dear players,
There seems to be quite a bit of speculation about our reasons for (recent) changes, so we've decided to reach out and clarify our intentions in the hopes of making things a bit more understandable.

Our stance on various topics

Tediousness
Tediousness shouldn't be a way to balance the attacker/defender relationship. Making someone quit because they don't want to deal with the hours of work your fakes represent isn't how we think the game should be played. If that person wants to spend hours on it to deal with them the best they can, that's something different, but a basic, convenient solution should exist. We are currently looking into new ways to make late-game wars less time-draining.


Old doesn't mean good
There's a lot of stuff that is clear to advanced players that isn't clear to new players. There's no reason they should need to struggle to understand stuff just because we did when we started. :)
We realise that you're used to the way certain things are (we are too!), but that doesn't make them the best ways, or the most easily understood. We go into specifics a bit more about this in the examples later.


Scripts and other external tools
It's great that various technically gifted players use their skills to offer extra convenience or customization in the form of scripts and tools to other players.
While such tools can offer improvements for some, we think the game should be playable without these externally-created tools. We believe this strongly for several reasons:

  1. They'll break due to an update sooner or later, due to how they and the game interact. We try to avoid this when feasible, and the script authors work hard at updating their scripts to always be compatible, but it's often a losing battle. Because we change parts of the game, scripts will need to be updated at some point or another in their lifetime. This is bad for everyone involved: authors need to update, players need to grab a new version, and people get annoyed about updates because their scripts don't work for a while.
  2. Setting up a tool can be a pretty complicated process, and not something that everyone feels comfortable with.
  3. Tools are only available to certain circles of players. If you happen to have a technical wiz in your tribe, you can count yourself lucky. Most don't - indeed, many tribal wars players are not even aware of the existence of scripts.
  4. While most don't, tools can present a security risk. If you run a script on your account, that's letting the script author make any changes to your account that he wants, and you only have someone's word for it that the tool is only performing the intended task. All it takes is one person with less-than-honorable intentions to mess up your game.
This is why recently we've been trying to resolve the issues above by integrating popular and useful functionality directly into the game: so it's more reliable, easy, accessible for all, and safe.


Some confusing changes
With the above in mind, here are some of the changes we made in the last months that were greeted with confusion.


Map Button Relocation
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The map button used to be next to the village link, a bit below the main menu. It had been there since the very earliest versions of Tribal Wars. Naturally, when we relocated it to the main menu, this took some getting used to. So why did we do it?
We noticed that people were having trouble finding the map link. It was inconvenient when the map link moved because we all knew where the map link was due to repetition and the expectation that it will be in the same place that it always is.
Naturally, players unfamiliar with Tribal Wars don't have the benefit of repetition to know where something is - all they have is expectation. Their expectation turned out to be something fairly logical: all the important areas in the game seem to be accessible in the big eye-grabbing main menu, so if they're looking for something like a map, in the main menu is where it would be. No important game area was to be expected to be just another bit of partially re-coloured text. We moved the map to the main menu so that the overall navigation is that much more intuitive.
Incidentally, this assumption that the main menu is for all important navigation is also why in update 8.22 we made the "Overviews" link take you to your village if you just have 1 (and don't have a Premium Account). We observed new players would often click there when trying to get (back) to their village.


Rally Point Searching
We added searching in the Rally Point because "x" and "y" are foreign concepts to many and coordinates are not something easily remembered. We combined it with showing information about the target before going to the confirmation screen - something we felt for a long time was lacking. We know the searching is mainly only useful for the early to mid stages of the game, which is why made sure to keep the old coordinates-targeting system for players who want the extra precision, or players using scripts.




Priorities
So, why do so many of our changes seem to be geared towards newer players? It's because we care a whole lot about new players, and you should too! You: the players, are the most important part of any online multiplayer game. Without you, there would be no Tribal Wars. It's an unfortunate fact that no one will play a game forever. Without a constant stream of new players getting to know and enjoy the game like you have, there would very soon be no Tribal Wars. Several of the changes we went into details about above were to make the integration of a new player into the game a better experience, resulting in them being slightly more likely to stick around and become a full member of the community.

None of this means that you existing players aren't important - quite the contrary. All kinds of players are important to Tribal Wars: as friends, tribe-mates, enemies or targets - everyone contributes towards the strong community in one of the web's longest-standing browser games. Though it might not always be obvious, we do hear the feedback you share in your forum posts and support tickets. One of the most important tasks of the Community Managers in each language-version is to keep us up to date about your mood, wants and needs.
However, acting on this feedback is not our only way of making decisions. A wide variety of factors can come into our decisions. Some examples are: community feedback, how easy something is to use, security, performance, experience with past cases, impact on premium usage, impact on player satisfaction and
what our numbers say about how much something is used.
We try our best to use all information at our disposal to decide the best for Tribal Wars overall: as a game, business and community. We realise that this might not always be as clear as it should be, so we're going to continue to be more open about our reasons, goals and what considerations went into decisions.

We hope this has been enlightening, and thanks for reading until the end. Please never stop telling us what you think, love and hate!


The Tribal Wars (development) team
 

One Last Shot...

Contributing Poster
Reaction score
1,552
Long read, but very well said.

Personally, I'm glad that there are steps being taken to make the game more user-friendly and less reliant on scripts.

A huge update that could be added in would be an effective resource balancer (maybe as part of Account Manager), as that is really the last big script that hasn't got any viable alternative. The current market-place ingame tool seems kinda useless comparatively.
 

DeletedUser656

Guest
Long read, but very well said.

Personally, I'm glad that there are steps being taken to make the game more user-friendly and less reliant on scripts.

A huge update that could be added in would be an effective resource balancer (maybe as part of Account Manager), as that is really the last big script that hasn't got any viable alternative. The current market-place ingame tool seems kinda useless comparatively.

Like the one we added a week or two ago?
 

THE MURPH ALL CAPS

Contributing Poster
Reaction score
948
The Map change was good (Even though I don't like change) but why didn't you mention the mass deleting on 69. It shows that we have teh powah. Also next world no hauls plz.

PS: very disappointed in the lack of Ice Bucket Challenge.
 

DeletedUser656

Guest
The Map change was good (Even though I don't like change) but why didn't you mention the mass deleting on 69. It shows that we have teh powah. Also next world no hauls plz.

PS: very disappointed in the lack of Ice Bucket Challenge.

This has been posted on all markets and a few accounts saying they're going to delete on one world doesn't really need to be addressed.

P.s. I'd already donated 100 euros.
 

Metal Duck

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
38
I think everyone wants more people to play this game, however, there's been an obvious reduction in the player base from around world 30ish onwards.

The reason for this imo is due to a; lack of targeted advertising, bad retention rate of players whom quit the game after entering full-time employment and difficulty for new players during the startup phase of this game (I think things have improved here and it looks like they will continue to, so I'm not going to address it).

For targeted advertising you need to know the demographics of your user base. From my experience the big three in TW are: students and unemployed persons (including homemakers). If Innogames stuck a banner to TW (perhaps giving incentives such as 3 days premium from day 1) on the biggest forums for those kinds of people (students - thestudentroom, homemakers - netmums), there would undoubtedly be a dramatic influx of new players into the game. Whether or not they stick around will depend on what their first experiences are like.

If you want to retain more players that enter full-time employment, there needs to be more worlds with settings that reduce the activity required to be successful. Ideally so a player that works full-time can login for something like once in the; morning (before they go to work), lunch (from their phone), before/after dinner, before they go to sleep and still have some semblance of achievement in the game.

I've probably overlooked some obvious stuff but those are some issues that concern me about TW's future.
 

MR.MR

Guest
Youd enjoy that far too much, G

Morthy great post great explanation, thank you very much and I look forward to the continued improvements of TW.
 

sidd 271

Contributing Poster
Reaction score
312
I think existing worlds should continue supporting old browsers as players are used to it. New player does not join old worlds anyway
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It seems a disgrace that the innogames development team write this statement. In the past I tried to talk to them for some problems we were having in another server with the Community Manager and it was impossible to talk to them. I tried through the web, email, and how many ways I could think of, and his only response was that the defendant had answered me. We have endured disrespect, injustice, and more, and nowadays nothing is diferent. Who has written this has absolutely nothing mattered. So all he says that players care about, it is a vulgar fallacy, only care about the revenue generated by the game, so simple and easy.

About changes,as always, there are some better and some worse, have to adapt to everything.

My english is so poor, sorry if I wrote wrong anything.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
greetings tw staff::

few issues i would like to address ... could you guys stop gearing the game away from using opera ... opera is a vital tool and no other browser comes close to doing what opera can do ... this game is awesome and ive been playing for a very long time and will continue to but i have noticed that you guys are anti-opera ... sending mass fakes is part of the game and made easier in opera by using bookmarks and snaplinks and other such tools and being able to switch between tabs by pushing the number 2 button ... if others arent willing to take the time to watch the numerous instructional videos on youtube then they dont deserve to be as good as the ones that are willing to take that time and learn the intricacies of the game ... no one likes the tediousness of getting attacked but if there were no risk the rewards would not be as great ... some players are so good that if you dont fake you will not take villages ... plain and simple ... i realize the security risk that scripts pose but scripts are needed since you guys dont make the ability to do what scripts do, integrated into the game ... if you guys made the game with all the bells and whistles we wouldnt need scripts ... but until then we need them to be more effective players ... thank you for your time and i love tribalwars :)
 

DeletedUser94483

Guest
That is what he is talking about chende...they are looking at incorporating all the bells and whistles as you put it.

Also switching tabs is something the new opera can do...they are not anti opera they are just having no choice but to continue progressing the system forward. Eventually any set of programs left without being updated eventually becomes obsolete no matter how good the framework that we all like is.

Also any player sufficiently good enough is going to be non-plussed by mass fakes and you will still cease to take his villages.
 

DeletedUser99939

Guest
Morthy,

I'm sorry but I don't think you have your gaming community at heart when these "developments" are being made. I feel that while you are trying to what you think is "best" it hurts the game and the existing players here. For example with the latest update opera is no longer a supported browser by tw. I think that is morally wrong on many levels. Do you even know how many of us use opera? Everyone I know practically uses opera and I have been playing your game since 2008. I'm not happy with our tools being cut to make tw a more independent game. I do get your point but what about your existing tw community? Nothing is being done to maintain us or keep us coming back is there? We are slowly not coming back and getting tired of what we see as a result of our tools and what we use to make the game fun for us to play. With opera being threatened to not be supported anymore that means taking out our ability to mass fake, t train, and likewise do what we have done for years before these changes. Many players did not know how to t train a few years ago but now they have adapted to the change in warfare. The new players can do the same its just about how dedicated they are past start up if they can take the time to learn the trade. With as many people that know how to do it now someone knows someone in the tw community that can fix scripts or help set up hotkeys in opera. It is simply NOT hard at all to catch up. If you want to continue changes you need to take us into account before just doing it. Many of us don't visit the pnp we spend our time in game where the incomings are. If you want to get our opinion do an in game survey or have the in game mods start asking around or both. If tw is so concerned about how the new players will learn how to play bring back the blogs and the player interviews from old worlds. When we lost those a lot of people did lose interest including me and I was still a new player at the time. Not trying to be harsh but hey I don't see the existing community being valued.

War
 

mattcurr

Guest
I love the lack of support for opera. Timing is a bastardization of the original intent of the game imo. I do not believe that they envisioned me sitting with opera and sending 1000 attacks by pressing two buttons over and over again. To over whelm and force out players. I do not believe that the idea of a "strategy game" was to force you to be online to snipe attacks, and that to send four successive nobles in a second. I think they should randomize all attack lands by 10 seconds. And make it a strategy game. They should allow a maximum amount of attacks per village you own.. Maybe ten per village. Rebalance the game towards defending and you can play with less time intensity. Time intensity is the real barrier of entry into tw. On the rest I think metal duck hit the nail on the head.

Also on a side note, at the height of tw when it was most competitive and popular, if my memory serves me Internet explorer was the most popular browser and I would shocked if it wasnt still the most popular browser for tw. You forum goers and your friends are not the average tw player you are, if not the elite in terms of skill level, the elite in terms of involvement and time dedication..
 
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DeletedUser94483

Guest
Matt by randomizing attacks you REMOVE strategy because you are taking away control..albeit that would be an interesting one off setting to see...I agree blanket attacks to destroy players is not really strategic...but if you remove the ability to mass launch how will people attack when they holds THOUSANDS of villages..Dynamically increase a players ability to use opera? As a world ages dial back the features so players can use opera? Makes no sense to me there.

There are good and bad things about it...sniping and t trains add something interesting to the game...timing is always a fun aspect as well. Fake limits...hmm wonder what setting that would be under.

You cant force the game to gear ONLY towards defending because you shut out the other half of players...those that like attacking.

War the reason blogs went away officially to my memory was a lack of official bloggers. They just could not maintain the staff. Albeit I can agree with some of your points I think that some of the adjustments are being implemented slowly to allow adaptation instead of a massive overhaul all at once. (Just my two cents nothing to do with being green allows me information to make that in anyway an official statement).

Also it is not a lack of support for opera it is opera's lack of support of tw...there are changes they made based on modern internet browsing capabilities that ancient browsers just are not able to handle. If the opera development team took the few weeks it would take to bring opera 12 up to spec then none of these conversations would even be going on...
 

MR.MR

Guest
If you are that concerned about not playing the game without Opera 12, then why don't you go to that Change.Org petition site and make a petition to Opera to bring the features of Opera 12.whatever and start circulating it around the TW community. If you are really feeling clever, go to google translate and get it circulating around other language domains of TW. Then send it to Opera when you get 1000s of signatures.

Otherwise, Opera 20+ works nicely, you simply have to 2-click on your quickbar through tabs to run scripts, there is a browser add-on that supposedly allows you to set custom-keybinds (all Chrome extensions work on Opera 20+), though I haven't figured it out yet/found a write-up of how to.

The power is in your hands to make a change.
 

DeletedUser94483

Guest
Actually the opera community did a petition around opera 18 to try and change it...received FAR more signatures then the one posted on the w73 forums has pulled and still not incorporated yet. I do understand that it is in the works for opera and am myself looking into a way to rework and make my own bookmark keybind add on.

So far though my opera 23 is rather a bit choppy in its connection to tw but I think that is from user error. Speaking of user have you gotten around to updating your router Asalamalakum?
 

mattcurr

Guest
You cant force the game to gear ONLY towards defending because you shut out the other half of players...those that like attacking.

.but if you remove the ability to mass launch how will people attack when they holds THOUSANDS of villages..

I didnt say force it to only gear towards defending. And I am rather too busy to get into a forum debate if you're not going to read and comprehend, I seriously have no will to do it. If you'd like a reasoned debate dont strawman it's too much time and effort for me to respond to. I am asking for a balance to the game to reduce the time commitment. At least in the beginning so you can get people addicted to the game. You're not going to just jump into a game and start playing 12 hours a day. I played tw because when I first started I did well playing 2-3 hours a day in-between sports and highschool... You cant do that anymore. Ban co-playing like Ive been saying for years, and balance the attacking and defending system.

Do you really want me to explain how to attack with a lot of villages? Because I rarely attack with mass attacks, yet have had success in late game opps, I play 80-90% defense, and manage to be high up in ODA. It's very doable, and if you're actually going to listen I'll explain.

Matt by randomizing attacks you REMOVE strategy because you are taking away control..
No you shift from relying on a skillset of timing, to a strategy of how to build an account, where to build defense and where to build offense, and how to work as a team to cover villages. Proper cross support. You know actual player level and team level strategy not just can my finger move this quickly. At tw's height the two "famous" groups, I guess you could say, thar/vpar/jamm and pervis/purple predator and company had a little shoot out in .uk. And we were sending 5 ms trains and sniping them. Do you know how boring a game is when you can snipe a 1 ms window with enough accuracy that your tribe sniped every train like that coming at you? And no-one who doesnt do massive amounts of reading can possibly hope to compete with my timing when they join this game.
 
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gn0me

Guest
nice idea... that TW can again be a strategy game instead of reliant on how much online time you can spare... and making it non-reliant on scripts is a welcomed concept seeing as every script i've ever had doesn't work anymore... but more and more are being incorporated into the game - Well done.
Now I just took a sit and I'd like to label all the present incomings so I can quickly see any new attacks launched. Please incorporate that button into the game, its not the first time I've wished for it, and I bet I'm not the only one.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
What i think inno need to be looking at, is whether they want a new crowd, or whether they want to keep the old crowd happy.

You should be pushing people to TW2 now, not here. This game is old, and its the way the current community like it.

The fact that half of the scripts / shortcuts and other things are now unable to work, is starting to grate.

I know for a fact, the constant updates, making the game more childish each time, is making more people quit than inno care to believe. Then again, maybe thats their intention, but TW2 is even worse where childish features and over-complicated ridiculousness is concerned.
 
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