The Resistance

DeletedUser50733

Guest
Remove the rim tribes, free up everything and everyone to concentrate on BiP.

My personal opinion, it's not a bad shout.
 

DeletedUser118986

Guest
Remove the rim tribes, free up everything and everyone to concentrate on BiP.

My personal opinion, it's not a bad shout.

It is a little too late for TEA to start fully cleaning up their rim now. They should have done that long ago instead of playing cocky and greedy for rank. Now that they are running full ops on FARM instead it should be interesting to see if or when their next op on BiP is. BiP should not slow down and keep the pressure while TEA decided now is a good time to clean up the rim. Maybe that's why Al doesn't realize how they got into this position ;)
 

DeletedUser119811

Guest
I find it weird that they havent just recruited them so they can keep rank 1
 

DeletedUser

Guest
TEA vs. BiP - 2 Weeks Later

On January 19th, I made some observations and predictions on the TEA vs. BiP war. You can, if you so wish to, read this here. Two weeks on, lets see how the front has changed, how the two sides are doing and what we should be looking out for in the future.

The Statistics

Just a quick update on the statistics. My original set of statistics were written one day after the declaration on the 19th January. Today is the 5th February, 17 days in the future to put these comparisons in context.

Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 14.41.41.png


Just an aside on the percentage conquers statistics that I failed to mention last time. TWstats actually calculates percentage statistics incorrectly as it factors in villages conquered from yourself (such as commonly occurs when sending 5 nobles in a train). So in the case of BiP's barbarian nobling statistics to give an example, TWstats will say that it is 17.6% whereas it is actually 19.2% percent. Just a curiosity there. Another quick note is that I have included conquers vs. P-W as internals for TEA which I did not do last time, if people are curious about the jump in internals.

The major thing to look at here is the growth of BiP has been significantly better, TEA is growing at approximately 75-80% of the rate of BiP, even excluding the loss of HardNutz. If this trend continues, then BiP can start getting a more favourable size advantage, even though TEA still have P-W in the back.

If we use this piece of data as well as the one from 17 days ago, then we can look at some interesting statistics from the war itself. I was lucky enough to be invited to join TEA a few weeks back which has allowed me a peek at the war stats*, here they are:

Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 14.48.39.png
Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 14.44.32.png

The big question is, how committed are the two tribes (though this also contains P-W and I'll take them out when it comes to TEA's individual stats) to the war and how much are they sacrificing in order to progress in this particular fight, keeping in mind that both tribes probably have other menaces to deal with. TEA certainly does.

TEA has had an ODA gain of 69.5 Million over the duration of the war, of which 31.0 Million has been against BiP, around 44.6% of the total ODA is versus BiP. Meanwhile TEA has also had an ODD gain of 73.0 Million over the period, of which 61.9 Million has come from BiP or around 84.7% of the total ODD gain. In terms of conquers, TEA has had 1538 conquers over the period, of which 98 come from BiP or 6.4% of the total conquers.

On BiP's side, their ODA gain is 62.9 Million, of which 42.8 Million is versus TEA/P-W or around 68.1% of their total ODA gain over the war. Their ODD gain is 80.8 Million, of which 75.9 Million is from TEA/P-W or around 93.9%. In terms of conquers, BiP have conquered 1852 villages over the period, of which 342 are from TEA or HardNutz or around 18.5%.

There are a multitude of things that can be observed from the OD and conquer stats. The obvious one is how much easier BiP is having it in terms of conquers. Just over two weeks ago, I said the following:

"Defensively, HardNutz and King Silva are very likely to be focused down, especially King Silva."

And it seems this has been the case. You could argue a bit of misfortune in the case of HardNutz, but either ways that particular part of the front has collapsed. BiP seems to have also consistently stacked against TEA heavier, the ODA/ODD ratio suggests the average TEA nuke hits a three full defence stack, though it is difficult to ascertain this with all the buffs that the paladin, flags and P2W gives. The average BiP nuke meanwhile is hitting perhaps 70% of the resistance of the average TEA nuke, though it is difficult to calculate this.

Another point of interest is the amount of focus that each tribe is giving each other offensively. The best way to tell this is in the ODA gain where BiP's ODA gain % against TEA is about 24% higher than TEA's against BiP. It seems that TEA is focusing more on other tribes such as FARM, -DC- and Kraken. One wonders though if this is wise given that the vast majority of their ODD, which on the macro scale very roughly translates to pressure comes from BiP. TEA must be confident that they will get rid of these backline threats and do better in the long term, though it remains to be seen. Farm in particular is looking to be a thorn in TEA's side, though TEA/P-W are up 43-17 in the last week. The question really is whether more offensive/defensive priority should be put on stabilising the BiP war over the next few weeks.

Map of the Battlefield:

Just for reference, this is how the battlefield looked at the beginning of the war:

Screen Shot 2017-01-19 at 6.57.19.png

Now it is like this:

Screen Shot 2017-02-05 at 15.28.40.png

The two major changes are the losses from HardNutz and KingSilva which has allowed BiP to close off what was once somewhat of a vulnerable cluster. I imagine this will continue until that entire cluster has been marked out for BiP. The war has not been without losses for BiP, with Finewe being internalled. TEA and BiP have also both nobled to close off what was a gap in K55, creating an active new front. In terms of overall statistics, provided that there are no major changes, I expect the war to slow down a bit. Although I said earlier that TEA clearing up those rim tribes might not be the right thing to do, if Infamy continue to do nothing and BiP cannot gain any headway, in the long term, TEA has more space to work with than BiP. It does put BiP on a timer, though TEA may be on a shorter one due to the presence of Infamy. I do hear there is a timer going around on the publics though, I wonder what that is for?

To summarise the last two weeks, BiP have gotten off to a good start, partially due to TEA making safe plays of splitting up focus and defence, partially through poor luck in the case of HardNutz which should have probably been able to hold vs BiP okay considering (I always thought King Silva was screwed from the get go unless he was stacked to the brim or a beast) the positioning they had at the start of the war. I don't think the fight is anywhere near over yet, there haven't been any real drastic measures taken from either side so most likely we will be all here flaming each other in the publics for a while to come.

*In all seriousness though, shout out to the guy who gave me a copy of the war stats to use for this.
 

DeletedUser50733

Guest
Excellent analysis.

Couple things to mention, from my own personal viewpoint. I always thought King silva would have a very tough time if it given location. That cluster was always going to be one of the first Ops for BiP.

Secondly, hardnutz. The ban situation, unforeseeable and rather unjust/unlucky. Before that, he was fighting hard, losing villages yes but doing well considering location.

So on that side of things, well done to BiP. They prepared well it seems, and they have done a good job thus far.

Regarding backyard clearing, I've not been on Tea side long so didn't pay much attention to that beforehand, as my previous tribe was more focussed on 2Hard/BiP. However from what I can see BiP cleaned house well enough beforehand to have little distraction in a Tea war. Now Tea is cleaning house, it's a sensible decision, if it was actively made as one, and long term I believe the correct decision.

Oh and regarding Infamy, less than 100 hours until we see some more cards on the table I think.
 

Quammel

Guest
Oh and regarding Infamy, less than 100 hours until we see some more cards on the table I think.

I think they're going to wait till 1 tribe is lost. They will noble them as fast as possible and prepare for the war with the tribe that won
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I think HardNutz position wasn't great in regards to both Infamy and BiP, but to BiP alone it was not terrible. I would have called it a blessing and a curse personally, though a lot really depended on his performance. His position had one major advantage, that he was right next to King Banana.

It is my personal opinion that having frontline leaders is a double edged sword. You never really want to be in a situation where the enemy can bog the leader down through forcing him to defend his own account, possibly leading to worse leading ability. In my opinion, his performance wasn't good enough, even during the time that he was under fire. His ODD was too high, suggesting to me he wasn't picking his spots to fight well enough, his ODA may have even been too low, though it was fine.
 

DeletedUser93954

Guest
First time i've heard that being my neighboor is a major advantage :rolleyes:
When one is against a poor tribe, then yes having access to an enemy leader is a massive advantage, but any tribe worth it's salt won't simply crumble with a duke getting rimmed, or close to rimmed, and I doubt BiP would fall if King Banana did.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
When one is against a poor tribe, then yes having access to an enemy leader is a massive advantage, but any tribe worth it's salt won't simply crumble with a duke getting rimmed, or close to rimmed, and I doubt BiP would fall if King Banana did.

Oh I wouldn't think that.

More of a case of there being a bonus when putting that account under pressure or making them give up or affecting their ability to organise defence, prepare operations and lead in general. There are certain cases though where I could think of tribes worth their salt collapsing if one leader threw in the towel, it really depends on the style of the leader and how hard they carry their tribe. BiP doesn't seem to be one to my knowledge.
 

DeletedUser112461

Guest
I will be the first to admit that BiP have done extremely well for themselves. Their OPs have tbeen planned thoroughly and executed pretty flawlessly. There's no doubt of that. Yet there are those in BiP that mock TEA for not having King Silva/Hardnutz stacked to the brim... but how could we? We have Infamy baring their fangs on one front, with bananas being thrown at us on another... not to mention the rim tribes smashing us with spear nukes (laughable, but effective on empty backlines). If like BiP we had one front, then I am sure people would agree that our stacks would have been much more concentrated. Perhaps the war stats would have been a little tighter. These are not excuses, but facts. Regardless, BiP's defending and seemingly unlimited supply of PP is commendable. (Out of curiosity, I would like to know how much FKA/BiP spent in total PPing up those walls. (And before people start lashing out, TEA have done the same, just not to the same extent).

However, what I fail to understand is the hate and negatively pouring out of BiP. The village renaming, the external bashing... unsportsmanlike behaviour that makes me detest even reading the externals, yet alone logging into the game. There's a fine line which I feel both tribes have crossed. Sure most of us are here to win, but we are also here to have fun with our friends while meeting new people, right? King Ragnar was one of those new people I met on this world. I could digress into a soliloquy about him, but that would be utterly hypocritical and completely derail the intent and purpose of this post. The purpose of which is about forgiveness. Ragnar, I forgive you for what you did. I will never forget, but I can forgive.

It's the social aspect of Tribal Wars that keeps me coming back every goddamn time. I've met some fantastic people on this game, enemies, tribe mates, allies and co-players alike. Each individual bringing something new and exciting to this game that keeps me coming back for more. Special shout out to TEA here, I have never known a more hodgepodge group of goofballs and memers in all of my Tribal Wars career; and I love every single one of you to death (even if I veto some of your barb nobling/co-player requests lol). However there was one player in particular that I was introduced to in 2015 that - I can honestly say - has changed my life forever. Spending time with this individual has brought more happiness and joy into my life than I had previously ever thought possible. It is odd how attached we become to these strangers we meet on the internet; especially those individuals that you have absolutely nothing in common with besides the game itself. Talking to them every single day for months on end... you really do create a bond. Up until only recently, I had thought I had found my happily ever after...

But this page-turner of a fairy tale has come to an abrupt end. And I'm sitting here, book in my hands, re-reading the last lines wondering where it all went wrong... and I cannot help but blame myself. So I just wanted to say I am sorry. I am sorry for everything I put you through. You didn't ask for any of this, and I am sorry. You gave me everything you had to give, and I always wanted more. You told me again and again and I didn't listen until you drifted away completely. Without sounding too clichéd and over dramatic (too late), Martin Luther King once said "only in darkness can you see the stars". It is only now, at the lowest point in my entire life, do I see the beauty of everything I took for granted.

Whether you see this or not, I just wanted to ask for your forgiveness. I wish nothing but happiness and success for you in the future. You will always mean the absolute world to me.

Rose Kennedy said:
It has been said, 'time heals all wounds.' I do not agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessens. But it is never gone."

Went a little off topic towards the end, but the point remains. I just wish we could all be a little more positive and respectful towards one another, regardless what side we are on. I have enough heartache in my life as it is, and seeing everyone posting like this on the externals only makes it worse.

PS. Thank you for your previous post(s) nemesis. You bring unbiased statistics and facts into your posts which always makes for a balanced, structured and enjoyable read. Keep it up.
 

Serious George

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
203
Oh and regarding Infamy, less than 100 hours until we see some more cards on the table I think.

For the record, there are essentially only two people in Infamy who know when they will go to war with TEA. Have no fear though, war will happen and we will not wait too much longer unless TEA falls apart in the next couple of days which I doubt.

Many players have speculated regarding Infamy here on the externals. You are all welcome to your opinions and we really don't care at all. There is only one stat that matters and that is who gets the victory. It is still a three way race and we hope to be the victors.
 

DeletedUser120275

Guest
War summaryX
Summary
Conquered villages / Point increase
Your tribe
271
Enemy
101
= = = =
Difference
170
1.513.263
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I will be the first to admit that BiP have done extremely well for themselves. Their OPs have tbeen planned thoroughly and executed pretty flawlessly. There's no doubt of that. Yet there are those in BiP that mock TEA for not having King Silva/Hardnutz stacked to the brim... but how could we? We have Infamy baring their fangs on one front, with bananas being thrown at us on another... not to mention the rim tribes smashing us with spear nukes (laughable, but effective on empty backlines). If like BiP we had one front, then I am sure people would agree that our stacks would have been much more concentrated. Perhaps the war stats would have been a little tighter. These are not excuses, but facts. Regardless, BiP's defending and seemingly unlimited supply of PP is commendable. (Out of curiosity, I would like to know how much FKA/BiP spent in total PPing up those walls. (And before people start lashing out, TEA have done the same, just not to the same extent).

However, what I fail to understand is the hate and negatively pouring out of BiP. The village renaming, the external bashing... unsportsmanlike behaviour that makes me detest even reading the externals, yet alone logging into the game. There's a fine line which I feel both tribes have crossed. Sure most of us are here to win, but we are also here to have fun with our friends while meeting new people, right? King Ragnar was one of those new people I met on this world. I could digress into a soliloquy about him, but that would be utterly hypocritical and completely derail the intent and purpose of this post. The purpose of which is about forgiveness. Ragnar, I forgive you for what you did. I will never forget, but I can forgive.

It's the social aspect of Tribal Wars that keeps me coming back every goddamn time. I've met some fantastic people on this game, enemies, tribe mates, allies and co-players alike. Each individual bringing something new and exciting to this game that keeps me coming back for more. Special shout out to TEA here, I have never known a more hodgepodge group of goofballs and memers in all of my Tribal Wars career; and I love every single one of you to death (even if I veto some of your barb nobling/co-player requests lol). However there was one player in particular that I was introduced to in 2015 that - I can honestly say - has changed my life forever. Spending time with this individual has brought more happiness and joy into my life than I had previously ever thought possible. It is odd how attached we become to these strangers we meet on the internet; especially those individuals that you have absolutely nothing in common with besides the game itself. Talking to them every single day for months on end... you really do create a bond. Up until only recently, I had thought I had found my happily ever after...

But this page-turner of a fairy tale has come to an abrupt end. And I'm sitting here, book in my hands, re-reading the last lines wondering where it all went wrong... and I cannot help but blame myself. So I just wanted to say I am sorry. I am sorry for everything I put you through. You didn't ask for any of this, and I am sorry. You gave me everything you had to give, and I always wanted more. You told me again and again and I didn't listen until you drifted away completely. Without sounding too clichéd and over dramatic (too late), Martin Luther King once said "only in darkness can you see the stars". It is only now, at the lowest point in my entire life, do I see the beauty of everything I took for granted.

Whether you see this or not, I just wanted to ask for your forgiveness. I wish nothing but happiness and success for you in the future. You will always mean the absolute world to me.



Went a little off topic towards the end, but the point remains. I just wish we could all be a little more positive and respectful towards one another, regardless what side we are on. I have enough heartache in my life as it is, and seeing everyone posting like this on the externals only makes it worse.

PS. Thank you for your previous post(s) nemesis. You bring unbiased statistics and facts into your posts which always makes for a balanced, structured and enjoyable read. Keep it up.

I thought I should comment on this a little.

As I did say earlier, sometimes you have to adapt to the hand you are given. I can't say what TEA did or did not do in terms of stacking, but I can say it was possible to stack both players to the brim. One thing that I notice from TEA for example is that they do not get the fullest amount of defence from their players even when it is safe to do so. This is because, as far as I am aware, TEA puts stacking lists out on their internal forums instead of assigning out defence on the individual level*. Therefore there is a large possibility that somewhere out there, there is some untapped defence you can use. On top of that TEA can also request from W A R, who is a turtle tribe or more from their academy tribe P-W. Lets say though that TEA is actually running out of defence and cannot physically stack all fronts. At this point you have a choice to make? Do we stack all fronts inadequately or do we prioritise?

I literally said day one and could have easily said day zero that King Silva and HardNutz were going to be the two major targets. If you think you have a read on your opponents movements, rather than just stacking what is close to the enemy, stack instead based on vulnerability or where you think the opponent is going to attack. That does mean Hydra of Lerna for example doesn't have that many stacks, but who cares, even though he borders BiP, BiP probably aren't going to attack him anyways. It is a win win situation, if they attack someone who is a suboptimal target, you have better chances of defending, if they crash into your stacks it is obviously also a win. Similarly, I think there are ways you could have set up the front to do more offensively, since unless you have a onesided 1v1 matchup, most likely you are either going to be attacking FKA, Finewe or LawandOrder1. It may be even more skewed in one direction, though that would require knowledge of the particular individual players that make up the front. This is why I think the ability to understand and mould the battlefield is such an under-utilised skill amongst TW leaders and something I've only really started exploring more recently myself.

In terms of sportsmanship, I am not one to be sportsmanlike myself. Respect is not just given for free, at least from me, it is earned. Furthermore, in my opinion, I shouldn't have to be telling people they did good. They should know themselves whether they did good or not, regardless of winning or losing the war. Yes though you are right, I've been in certain tribes that never give respect out for anything, @Night being a recent example but I can also think back to older ones such as SPAM. In those particular cases, you have to be in the tribe itself to understand why no respect is given, often it is just part of the atmosphere. Asking for respect actually generally results in more flaming and scorn. "No, why would we give TEA respect, they are trash". To put it one way, different tribes are different internally, perhaps you would give them respect, but do not expect reciprocation. Some tribes in TW just won't give you it ever.

*Don't ask how I know this, safe to say you have not got a spy at least on this end.
 

Mithrae

Guest
In terms of sportsmanship, I am not one to be sportsmanlike myself. Respect is not just given for free, at least from me, it is earned. Furthermore, in my opinion, I shouldn't have to be telling people they did good. They should know themselves whether they did good or not, regardless of winning or losing the war. Yes though you are right, I've been in certain tribes that never give respect out for anything, @Night being a recent example but I can also think back to older ones such as SPAM. In those particular cases, you have to be in the tribe itself to understand why no respect is given, often it is just part of the atmosphere. Asking for respect actually generally results in more flaming and scorn. "No, why would we give TEA respect, they are trash". To put it one way, different tribes are different internally, perhaps you would give them respect, but do not expect reciprocation. Some tribes in TW just won't give you it ever.

I get the impression that some folk feel that effective "PnP" means just trash talking other tribes, claiming that they're crap and throwing every accusation under the sun hoping some of it sticks. To greater or lesser extents there's some folk in all the major tribes doing that.

I don't know anything specifically about those tribes you mentioned but in the case of a tribe which is genuinely (and proven) superior to all or at least most others around, sure, in that case I can see why they'd not hand out respect to their rivals. Trouble is that there's no tribe on World 90 which can claim some high and mighty superiority over each other. Most of us still recall the diplomatic blundering and internal fracturing from the early days of the 2HARD/BiP war which saw BiP down by 37 to 13 in the first seventeen days of that conflict - an even worse beginning for that stage of the world than BiP's current successes against quitting, banned or isolated former 2HARD accounts. But we all know how that one turned out in the end. Probably TEA could have done better too, but certainly BiP have done fine work so far in this war: It'd be nice if all parties - certain Infamy members included - could acknowledge that without also feeling the need to claim that one or the other is a crap tribe or keep flinging dubious accusations around the externals. To my mind that kind of thing comes across as insecure more than anything else - and as Nicki commented, really detracts from enjoyment of the game, particularly when all the vitriol and drama ends up getting carried over from world to world.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
I get the impression that some folk feel that effective "PnP" means just trash talking other tribes, claiming that they're crap and throwing every accusation under the sun hoping some of it sticks. To greater or lesser extents there's some folk in all the major tribes doing that.

I don't know anything specifically about those tribes you mentioned but in the case of a tribe which is genuinely (and proven) superior to all or at least most others around, sure, in that case I can see why they'd not hand out respect to their rivals. Trouble is that there's no tribe on World 90 which can claim some high and mighty superiority over each other. Most of us still recall the diplomatic blundering and internal fracturing from the early days of the 2HARD/BiP war which saw BiP down by 37 to 13 in the first seventeen days of that conflict - an even worse beginning for that stage of the world than BiP's current successes against quitting, banned or isolated former 2HARD accounts. But we all know how that one turned out in the end. Probably TEA could have done better too, but certainly BiP have done fine work so far in this war: It'd be nice if all parties - certain Infamy members included - could acknowledge that without also feeling the need to claim that TEA is a crap tribe or keep flinging dubious accusations around the externals. To my mind that kind of thing comes across as insecure more than anything else - and as Nicki commented, really detracts from enjoyment of the game, particularly when all the vitriol and drama ends up getting carried over from world to world.

I don't think they believe effective PnP is merely trashtalking enemy tribes, people do it because it is good fun. Calling TEA trash or putting out wild accusations obviously garners some sort of reaction that is played off publicly for entertainment. That's without even adding in factors such as beef, ie. two sides not actually liking each other and the war being more than just one of expansion. Giving your opponent due respect, being the gentleman, whilst undoubtedly the more decent thing to do is a little boring. The actual skill differential between the sides is irrelevant.

Then again, I certainly come from a differing school of thought here to the most successful PnPers.
 
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TheHans

Master Commander 2016
Reaction score
341
I'd always associate PnP with the start of new threads. People like Jake, King Banana etc have started good PnP threads imo. The replies after won't usually have decent replies including from myself.

Disrespecting eachother has been around, forever. it's not just this world. People take a game too seriously on all sides. And I doubt it'll change until TW finally finishes. It's when it gets personal, when people show their real colours.
 

THE MURPH ALL CAPS

Contributing Poster
Reaction score
948
Alex was a friend of mine after what he did to me is no longer [removed by moderator]

Almurph_Lolz_Ink_LI.jpg


Almurph_Lolz1.jpg

Since when do the externals believe some random alias that posts fabricated screenshots without any proof of them being real. There's zero evidence to support the legitimacy of these screenshots, not even a time stamp or Skype name. I never said any of the above, it's pathetic.
 
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