twenty-five
Guest
Why? It's half an idea at best, how is anyone expected to vote on something where the OP doesn't even know what it is they are suggesting?
This just shows how pointless this new section is.
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This just shows how pointless this new section is.
JawJaw
Awesomest CM Ever
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- 2,210
The point of this entire section is to have players debate about thoughts that are living within the community. If you think the idea is bad or badly presented, you are allowed to improve the initial idea or just vote no.
This section is not to point out how pointless the section is.
If we want to improve the game, we need to be able to hear about it. That won't happen by not having such a suggestions section and just ignore every suggestion that is made in the community. As far as I remember it was long requested that we take suggestions seriously. We are doing exactly that by allowing players to give suggestions and allowing the entire community to give their thoughts and feedback about it.
Furthermore it is not our task to disapprove suggestions, as long as they are within reasonable limits. If an idea is bad or poorly suggested, we trust that the community itself will cast a vote about that, that is where you as a player come in.
tl;dr:
You either give (constructive) feedback about the suggestion itself, or you just stay away and let the community do that for you
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twenty-five
Guest
It is constructive to say the idea needs fleshing out by the OP. If I think an idea is badly presented, I am very much allowed to ask for it to be fully developed before casting a vote on it. I did not here, because I can't see any use to it, but it's very reasonable to want to know what I would be voting no to before doing so.
It's impossible to have a discussion on something poorly thought out, I'm afraid.
Moderators offering some push back asking for ideas to at least be somewhat developed before being opened for voting is not an invalid point at all.
What are the people voting yes voting for? The abstract concept of weather? Wow.
That's exactly the sort of reason the community doesn't feel like it gets input, because without at least a semi-fleshed out idea it is now up to innogames staff to come up with. That's not a community suggestion at all.
However instructing people to stay away is:
a) Quite rude.
b) Not conducive to exactly what you highlighted this section is for.
I'm deeply sorry I upset you, seemingly personally (I assume because this was one of the first things you did on becoming CM), but that does not mean my post should not exist.
Yes my post is not particularly conducive to a good community, but neither does it directly make it a bad community. On the other hand community manager making the above post however is very much bad for this forum; I've offered constructive feedback else where in this section but because I dare to suggest an idea isn't fleshed out enough to reach a voting stage I shouldn't post here. Are you actually serious?
You're a representative of innogames here, act like it dear.
It's impossible to have a discussion on something poorly thought out, I'm afraid.
Moderators offering some push back asking for ideas to at least be somewhat developed before being opened for voting is not an invalid point at all.
What are the people voting yes voting for? The abstract concept of weather? Wow.
That's exactly the sort of reason the community doesn't feel like it gets input, because without at least a semi-fleshed out idea it is now up to innogames staff to come up with. That's not a community suggestion at all.
However instructing people to stay away is:
a) Quite rude.
b) Not conducive to exactly what you highlighted this section is for.
I'm deeply sorry I upset you, seemingly personally (I assume because this was one of the first things you did on becoming CM), but that does not mean my post should not exist.
Yes my post is not particularly conducive to a good community, but neither does it directly make it a bad community. On the other hand community manager making the above post however is very much bad for this forum; I've offered constructive feedback else where in this section but because I dare to suggest an idea isn't fleshed out enough to reach a voting stage I shouldn't post here. Are you actually serious?
You're a representative of innogames here, act like it dear.
snowflake
Guest
This message is constructive, well thought out, etc. I believe you have some things right here.
The first message however, seemed - not saying it was, but it seemed like it was - just hateful and negative. You weren't merely suggesting an idea isn't fleshed out enough.
You ridiculed the mods for allowing something that wasn't thoughtful enough to come to voting and said this whole section is pointless.
I think the issue was with the wording, and I'm sure JawJaw can take notice and in the future reply to people making suggestions, requiring a more structured idea that people can add/take away to/from and only permitting voting for ideas that look maybe a bit more like this:
Concept - weather having certain effects on battles in tw
Possibilities - different seasons give certain buffs to different sides of the battlefield (winter is a def buff, summer is an off buff, etc.)
- each day has a certain weather that is randomly decided and gives a certain unit a buff for that day
- certain weather slows down or accelerates troops
etc.
*I do not agree with the possibilities I posted nor do I want weather to make a difference. I just think the CM didn't mean to boot you off and harm the forums - but merely to reduce the negativity, and I think you didn't mean to offend but may have done so by using a negative tone regarding the entire concept of community voting on topics, while you mainly wanted people to have more focused ideas.
Cheers
- Reaction score
- 505
This is a quite basic idea of a new game mechanic. People can vote on whether they like it or not even if it's not fleshed out with details. Hell, that's the entire point of this - to see whether the community likes the baseline of this idea or not, and if they think it's not fleshed out enough, come with comments. If it's popular enough, it can always lead to another suggestion with a more fleshed out system.
As for your comment about "how pointless this section is" - well, then I'll just say I don't really think you've comprehended fully how this is supposed to work. We don't require every idea to be written out in every detail to be worth to see whether people think it's good or not - it's always a process and it can change further down the road. The basic of the idea is what's important.
DeletedUser122109
Guest
It really should be. Posting a vague suggestion and immediately voting on that is utterly useless. The idea he replied to this on is about as useful as "HEY ADD ANOTHER FEATURE IT'S CALLED X" and you want us to vote on that.
JawJaw
Awesomest CM Ever
- Reaction score
- 2,210
Yes I do. Simply because if the idea is bad you will (or should) point it out and give comments to improve the initial suggestion. Not just say "this is bad".
We will not decline suggestions (unless they have been disapproved earlier or if they're not feasible).
You can vote against it if the suggestion isn't clear enough or if the idea is plain bad.
DeletedUser122109
Guest
If theres no standards for the initial idea, no one is going to waste time coming here to make them into anything close to something worth passing on.
JawJaw
Awesomest CM Ever
- Reaction score
- 2,210
Unless they see ideas that aren't elaborate enough do not make the final cut.
twenty-five
Guest
I think you're right, I used hyperbole and my usual talking to jirki tone (which admittedly is not what I should have done here).
Saying "this is bad" is not the same as saying this has no substance. Something with no substance is inherently not bad, neither is it good. It's nothing. People are voting on ideas that are nothing but "add a new feature". People are voting yes on them. That's unbelievable to me, and I can't understand why you think that is an ok thing for you to be allowing the community to do.
I see you've failed to address me telling you how to talk to talk to people; that will be a new idea now, seeing as they need no real substance and it clearly is feasible
Then open it for discussion, but not voting. There was no baseline idea here.
Hyperbole, I clearly think this section is not pointless given I've posted elsewhere. We should have some details before voting though, there is no basic idea here. It's a suggestion of how to represent the idea as concept to people, not an idea in of itself. It's like if I said we should have morale, and we ended up with the morale system we currently have. Or if I said let's have seasons, and it was rejected for no reason given weather is acceptable....
What is the purpose of it? Why should we have it? What does it change? These should have at least some basic answers before being opened up to people.
DeletedUser122109
Guest
This just sounds like you want us to put in a ton of work refining vague one sentence ideas into something that would work in the game, while you're not willing to even post a basic template to ensure that the ideas that get voted on are are in anyway comprehensible?
(also please add a comma to that because it took 8 years of hard research to understand what you were trying to say)
- Reaction score
- 505
The two are not mutually exclusive.
The point you're missing with this is really that this section is for the COMMUNITY to put forth ideas, and for the COMMUNITY to refine those ideas. It's not here for us Community Managers to play Dictator and arbitrary decide "this is good" or "this is bad" or "this is not sufficient". We determine only whether it's been suggested before or not, and whether it's technically feasible or not, and aside of that, we let the community decide.
twenty-five
Guest
I didn't claim they were, this is a subversion of my point. My point is precisely that they shouldn't be but either:
a) The original idea actually has substance
b) The idea is developed into something with substance.
And then can be voted on!
No I am not missing this. I think there should be a template, a minimum requirement of what an idea is.
- Reaction score
- 505
So you mean every idea have to be detailed to be worth having a vote or discussion on? We don't differ them here - if we open for discussion, we open for vote. Simple as that. If the basic concept of an idea is clear enough (which the topic you're complaining about is), then we'll open that up. The rest is up to the community, as it should be.
We are not going to entertain any course of actions which would end with the Community Management sitting and judging the quality of the ideas made, because that would work against the point of this section.
If you think an idea is bad because it's unclear - it's simple, vote no and say so. But if you have nothing better to say than "This idea is lacking, this section is pointless!" you may as well refrain from posting in the thread at all.
DeletedUser122109
Guest
This is what you don't seem to understand. You want people to discuss and refine ideas, but don't want to make it worth coming to this section to do so.
twenty-five
Guest
So serious question, if the community management doesn't judge the quality of the idea how come my similarly developed ideas to the weather one haven't been opened for voting but deleted? That seems to counteract the very point you are trying to make :\
Be god damn consistent please, just because you disagree with me here doesn't mean my ideas aren't worthy for being considered or spam. They are similarly developed to other ideas posted here, you are making the decision they aren't worthy clearly. Why me and not others? Is it because you hold me to a higher standard? That's literally the only conclusion I can reach.
Be god damn consistent please, just because you disagree with me here doesn't mean my ideas aren't worthy for being considered or spam. They are similarly developed to other ideas posted here, you are making the decision they aren't worthy clearly. Why me and not others? Is it because you hold me to a higher standard? That's literally the only conclusion I can reach.
- Reaction score
- 505
Because it's obvious from a country mile away why you made those posts, especially in the light of the posts you've made in this thread. Spamming just to make a point wont be tolerated. Plain and simple. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
twenty-five
Guest
Clearly you hold me to a higher standard then. Those ideas are not spam if the weather one is not, I actually quite like the chicken coop one. Always wanted chickens. That's something I've had as an idea for years, yet never had the time to fully develop to a standard I am satisfied with, I was opening it up for the tribalwars community to work with me on but instead you deleted it... (and called me a very rude word on skype!)
- Reaction score
- 505
So, because we will allow basic concepts to be voted on, this section isn't worth coming to? Then I think you've got the completely wrong idea about what this section is actually here for.
As mentioned, if the basic concept of an idea is clear (yes, an idea about weather effects that effect gameplay is clear enough) then we will open it for voting and discussion. If you have nothing to contribute on that - ignore the topic. If you do, by all means, help discussing the and vote either way on it. It's the community that decides on this, not the Community Management. If it was us CMs that decided, what would be the point of this section at all?
twenty-five
Guest
You have guidelines but they are ignored. That is my problem here. Plus you are making exactly the decisions you claim not to, and singling me out. Some could claim I am currently being bullied by community management, I however would not go that far.
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