WHERE EAGLES DARE!

Apathetic h0llygh0st

Consumer of Beverages
Reaction score
1,193
Backstabbing has its obvious benefits but of course also its downsides. Its not something you can do a whole lot in 1 world obviously... And you do get a reputation for it that spans multiple worlds as well.

Imo, its never worth it to outright backstab another tribe.
 

DeletedUser121413

Guest
I'm not a big fan of tribes breaking their agreements, 'backstabbing' and so on, but ultimately all tribes are by definition rivals with each other.

Stuff like spying or betraying your own tribemates is a whole 'nother issue in my book - that goes against the very name and nature of the game. Fortunately there doesn't seem to be any of that in this conflict... so far at least.

Do u think -G- get his tribe TQL involved in gangbang of Beast, BRO, BM, Code and ID?!?! and then leaving his tribe and go independant is not betraying tribemate?
 

--G--

Guest
Do u think -G- get his tribe TQL involved in gangbang of Beast, BRO, BM, Code and ID?!?! and then leaving his tribe and go independant is not betraying tribemate?

Actually I went independent to get my tribe gangbanged without this affecting the other half of my tribe. However coalition went on and backstabbed Bill who was a friend of them and neutral, because they couldn't find a proper excuse to declare on him. So they just violated every nap/alliance cooldown and just launched attacks. ID stated they would stay neutral but declared on us yesterday, also violating cd
 

Mithrae

Guest
Do u think -G- get his tribe TQL involved in gangbang of Beast, BRO, BM, Code and ID?!?! and then leaving his tribe and go independant is not betraying tribemate?

Seems to me TQL south went independent precisely in an attempt to protect the northern group from being gangbanged by BM et al.

Whether or not that was all a good idea - ie, declaring on BRO in the first place - is information I'm not privy to as a lowly foot soldier: I imagine it would depend a great deal on how sincerely it was believed that BRO (or BM) were going to attack us anyway, and as I've posted elsewhere even I have seen some independent hints (from the former duke of my former tribe QT) that that might have been the case.

Gangbanging TQL north might have been a somewhat predictable outcome but it seems -G- did try to avoid it, and it was entirely the decision of BM and BRO to not only get that gangbang going, but even violate their NAP cooldown in the process!

That's pretty standard fare for TW really... but the efforts to try and claim a moral high ground for BM here seem quite feeble, at best.
 

King Banana

Guest
Grasped to big. Most cocky move I've seen in a while. Just bad tactical warfare.
 

Mithrae

Guest
Grasped to big. Most cocky move I've seen in a while. Just bad tactical leading.

I've been wondering the same honestly but - besides the big question of whether BRO/BM were really going to attack TQL anyway - which bit do you think was bad strategy?

I mean... Beast was just going to noble out the rest of Para and then stop, right? No threat to OMG or TQL at all? Does anyone really believe that? Absent some kind of insider knowledge that Code was going to suddenly backstab you, joining up with OMG and trying to help the remnants of Para slow you down a little longer was almost unquestionably the correct move as far as I can see.

What would you have done different? Tried to plead with and pacify the beast rather than fighting it?
 

King Banana

Guest
Beast and Code was offered an endgame deal with TQL and OMG.
Beast rejected this instantly.
TQL and OMG has worked as a family tribe.

TQL played this wrong in many ways. First of all they recruited Riot.
They were lucky that the coalition did not turn right around and striked them.
So with that in mind, they should have played it cool, shown loyalty and unity, as they were still accepted as a part of the coalition.
They should have waited for another tribe in the coalition to make a mistake politically.

But no, TQL had balls of steel. They did the same mistakes like the Riot leaders did, they tried to play everyone.
If anyone wonders, dukes talk, the more worried a leader gets, the more he shares, as his position is weakend, and he trades info for communication.

Then they procced to recruit -ND-, which leads to ID?!?! getting blocked for growth.
Then they procced to recruit deep into K45. After the first recruitment they were sent another warning. They procced to laugh about this warning, and talking along the lines: "We will see what happens.."
This rips up old scars from the Riot moves, and other tribes see that this was not just an one time thing, that is how the tribe operates.

Why they grasped to big? They wanted to win both k44 and k45 at the same time.
 

blckdrgn1

Guest
Tql or omg could have reached out for diplomatic talks. We probably would’ve ended up fighting one or the other either way but one could have had peace with us most likely.

I’m not part of leadership in beast so I don’t make those decisions, this is just my opinion. There were other options but they chose to spit in our face by recruiting ex para.

C’est la vie. I said at the start of that, others would take this as their opportunity to hit tql from their other fronts and as predicted they are doing so now. Was recruiting ex para worth it?
 

Mithrae

Guest
Beast and Code was offered an endgame deal with TQL and OMG.
Beast rejected this instantly.
Of course.

TQL played this wrong in many ways. First of all they recruited Riot.
They were lucky that the coalition did not turn right around and striked them.
I had no idea of the intra-coalition politics at the time, but from info in the OP that does seem to have been a bit of a dick move. But then again, when only 25 accounts can win the world, wouldn't you want to ensure you've got as many good folk as possible?

At 2-3 times the numerical advantage the coalition was making a little headway against the Riot group, with TQL making the most progress. That's based on the conquest stats at least; from what FNDP and others have said, BRO were making an impact in terms of mental strain if not so much positive conquests. If BM and BRO had declared on TQL immediately, there's every possibility the tide would've swung against them, not TQL, especially if NutZ and Zombie could be talked around by Riot members in their new home.

Perhaps that's why it was only sometime later that rumours of the intention to attack TQL started to gain traction.

So with that in mind, they should have played it cool, shown loyalty and unity, as they were still accepted as a part of the coalition.
They should have waited for another tribe in the coalition to make a mistake politically.
As I showed earlier in this thread, starting from five and a half hours after it was posted in the wee hours of the 5th, BM violated the nobling terms of their updated agreement with TQL literally every single day besides the 13th. If you think that merely looking for a feeble cassus belli was the 'smart' way to go, then yeah, I guess that would've been it. But this all hinges on the assumption that the other tribes - who were after all the ones with the least opportunity for expansion - were never going to attack TQL.

Then they procced to recruit -ND-, which leads to ID?!?! getting blocked for growth.
Admittedly I didn't pay too much attention to all the supposed drama surrounding the creation and early days of ID. But yeah, it looks like TQL recruited ~145k in some small but excellent members of -ND-, a few days after ID was created. Continuing a bad precedent, perhaps, but it's not like those were going to be pushovers and the inner coalition tribes were going to be hard-pressed for expansion regardless of whether or not they had the opportunity to fight for those ~15-20 villages.

Then they procced to recruit deep into K45. After the first recruitment they were sent another warning. They procced to laugh about this warning, and talking along the lines: "We will see what happens.."
By the looks of it they recruited one single person slightly across the K45 border (kyrtgr) from the tribe GOML, and you're saying that Beast - who had already peremptorily dismissed their overtures for long-term diplomacy - immediately started making threats over that? And now you're upset that they didn't kowtow to your whim? Their later recruitment of two Para members seems to have been a much smarter move than letting you grow unimpeded, as I've already said.

This rips up old scars from the Riot moves, and other tribes see that this was not just an one time thing, that is how the tribe operates.

Why they grasped to big? They wanted to win both k44 and k45 at the same time.
One recruit just across the K45 border from a non-enemy defunct tribe did all that?

Much as I respect your leadership and accomplishments, what you're presenting seems to be very much "the world according to Beast.";) Once again - besides the question of whether or not BM/BRO were going to attack TQL anyway, which is the real crux of the matter - I really couldn't argue that there's been anything egregiously wrong with the way the latter have proceeded, at least from what I'm aware of. I value pragmatism alongside loyalty, and I'm always willing to question leaders' action, so I'll grant that we could quibble over the -ND- recruitment: Simply because of the perceived continuation of precedent rather than the notions that they were bad recruits or that it seriously impacted ID's long-term growth potential. Beyond that, each move seems to make fairly sound strategic sense.
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser122173

Guest
I don't know. From my perspective, yes it was very true that many tribes in K44 did not like the TQL family for a variety of reasons. However, I do think there was a lot of hesitancy to outright attack them. TQL has an ally HUGS F. just below K44 who were just finishing up their war with Uruz as well as O.m.G who could have sent them defence. Yes, the coalition outnumbered them, but by a rate of 8 million to 6 million or so, which did not account for TQL allies outside of the continent.

--G--'s insistence to protect O.m.G, despite having plotted against Beast and Code created the war between Beast/Code and TQL, which in turn gave other tribes a lot more confidence to attack TQL/End! even knowing that HUGS and O.m.G was there. --G--'s long term diplomatic offer to Beast/Code was a joke, essentially telling us to forfeit 1/3 of the NE in order to become his ally. I am sure he did not offer it in any seriousness given he knew what the leader of O.m.G had been saying about Beast and Code. I do take such talks seriously since it is likely to be half of the world vs. the other half some time or another (whatever quarters decide to align with each other), but clearly that offer wasn't going to be anywhere near worth taking.

It also gave K44 coalition motivation for a multitude of reasons, I'm sure they'd rather see those villages in their possession afterall it is their K even if TQL has insulted us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

a.K.a elmoo

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
802
Beast and Code was offered an endgame deal with TQL and OMG.
Beast rejected this instantly.
TQL and OMG has worked as a family tribe.

TQL played this wrong in many ways. First of all they recruited Riot.
They were lucky that the coalition did not turn right around and striked them.
So with that in mind, they should have played it cool, shown loyalty and unity, as they were still accepted as a part of the coalition.
They should have waited for another tribe in the coalition to make a mistake politically.

But no, TQL had balls of steel. They did the same mistakes like the Riot leaders did, they tried to play everyone.
If anyone wonders, dukes talk, the more worried a leader gets, the more he shares, as his position is weakend, and he trades info for communication.

Then they procced to recruit -ND-, which leads to ID?!?! getting blocked for growth.
Then they procced to recruit deep into K45. After the first recruitment they were sent another warning. They procced to laugh about this warning, and talking along the lines: "We will see what happens.."
This rips up old scars from the Riot moves, and other tribes see that this was not just an one time thing, that is how the tribe operates.

Why they grasped to big? They wanted to win both k44 and k45 at the same time.

Well written. You just got the point from the neutral side. During the war with Riot, we (coallition) were having good numbers and stopped their growth. Most of their villas were downgraded and their main players and leaders started losing villas.

But then, Riot played well and divided us. Suddenly, my tribe had no targets around, because most of the red dots became blue. Only way was going to the rim. We took barb cluster up north, and finally started growing properly, hitting and nobling -ND- tribe mostly. And again, while I was making plans to rim Sweetmisery again, he/she appeared in TQL...

Imagine that feeling, and how my players were pissed. I tried to find common ground here, but got only one offer, to hit Bro family. Bro family was always fair and there was no way that I can hit them. Players that made problems in Bro got kicked or internalled, as it should be.

The final drop was this End! tribe. They had an obvious plan, to hit Bro and not affect north TQL. As far as I know, there was no 48h policy before End-Bro war, so I dont know what they expected in this case
 

--G--

Guest
Well written. You just got the point from the neutral side. During the war with Riot, we (coallition) were having good numbers and stopped their growth. Most of their villas were downgraded and their main players and leaders started losing villas.

But then, Riot played well and divided us. Suddenly, my tribe had no targets around, because most of the red dots became blue. Only way was going to the rim. We took barb cluster up north, and finally started growing properly, hitting and nobling -ND- tribe mostly. And again, while I was making plans to rim Sweetmisery again, he/she appeared in TQL...

Imagine that feeling, and how my players were pissed. I tried to find common ground here, but got only one offer, to hit Bro family. Bro family was always fair and there was no way that I can hit them. Players that made problems in Bro got kicked or internalled, as it should be.

The final drop was this End! tribe. They had an obvious plan, to hit Bro and not affect north TQL. As far as I know, there was no 48h policy before End-Bro war, so I dont know what they expected in this case

You can keep saying yourself that, to justify you actions. But the reason why we renamed is because Bill considered you his friends, even tho you are a low morale backstabber :)
 

a.K.a elmoo

Non-stop Poster
Reaction score
802
You can keep saying yourself that, to justify you actions. But the reason why we renamed is because Bill considered you his friends, even tho you are a low morale backstabber :)

But attacking Bro is not considered as backstabbing?
 

--G--

Guest
I don't know. From my perspective, yes it was very true that many tribes in K44 did not like the TQL family for a variety of reasons. However, I do think there was a lot of hesitancy to outright attack them. TQL has an ally HUGS F. just below K44 who were just finishing up their war with Uruz as well as O.m.G who could have sent them defence. Yes, the coalition outnumbered them, but by a rate of 8 million to 6 million or so, which did not account for TQL allies outside of the continent.

--G--'s insistence to protect O.m.G, despite having plotted against Beast and Code created the war between Beast/Code and TQL, which in turn gave other tribes a lot more confidence to attack TQL/End! even knowing that HUGS and O.m.G was there. --G--'s long term diplomatic offer to Beast/Code was a joke, essentially telling us to forfeit 1/3 of the NE in order to become his ally. I am sure he did not offer it in any seriousness given he knew what the leader of O.m.G had been saying about Beast and Code. I do take such talks seriously since it is likely to be half of the world vs. the other half some time or another (whatever quarters decide to align with each other), but clearly that offer wasn't going to be anywhere near worth taking.

It also gave K44 coalition motivation for a multitude of reasons, I'm sure they'd rather see those villages in their possession afterall it is their K even if TQL has insulted us.

The only backstab I did in this world was recruiting a player because he made racist joke. You can obviously see why I wanted to side with Riot instead of BM and ID. Both of them are worthless, low morale tribes. I love Smurfy, I admit it. I could see us working together for a long time. But even then, we decided to stick to our bm Alliance. And it was not because we couldn't work out leadership positions after the merge (as that idiot maximus stated). It was because we just couldn't do it and pick another side during the war.

So Nemesis, I promised OMG i would never turn against them. You can hunt me down forever, but at least if I'm destined to leave this world, I shall do it with my head up.
 

DeletedUser80720

Guest
But attacking Bro is not considered as backstabbing?
your allies ID just recruited players from TQL

now do what your so called coalition does and declare on the tribe recruiting the players your tribe are at war with

for the love of god grow a pair of balls
 

DeletedUser122173

Guest
The only backstab I did in this world was recruiting a player because he made racist joke. You can obviously see why I wanted to side with Riot instead of BM and ID. Both of them are worthless, low morale tribes. I love Smurfy, I admit it. I could see us working together for a long time. But even then, we decided to stick to our bm Alliance. And it was not because we couldn't work out leadership positions after the merge (as that idiot maximus stated). It was because we just couldn't do it and pick another side during the war.

So Nemesis, I promised OMG i would never turn against them. You can hunt me down forever, but at least if I'm destined to leave this world, I shall do it with my head up.

Well you didn't turn against OMG, you turned against your tribe lol since the only thing that resulted in your personal support for OmG was the Northern part of TQL getting jumped on which you then ran away from.

Let me put it to you straight why everyone in K44 hates you, it's not because you an arse or any of that, it's because you don't think your actions through and how they affect other tribes before you do it. No, they don't like your co-leader/RL friend either, however much of a nice guy he is in the diplomacy room, because of the actions your tribe did. You were in a coalition with all these other tribes vs. a mutual enemy Riot! and you recruited Riot! players into your tribe, essentially taking the vast majority of the spoils of the war, whilst only being one of multiple tribes without even asking any of the other tribes if that was okay (BTW it obviously wasn't). Same with this -ND- recruitment, same with this recruitment from Para.

If I'm warring Para with Beast and Beast decides they want to recruit the best players from Para without even bothering telling me, then I'm gonna not be a happy bunny. The coalition did not backstab you, you kicked them right in the balls whilst claiming to be part of their team and expected to get no backlash from it. Arrogance at its highest. I'm surprised they didn't declare war on you sooner.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser80720

Guest
sorry nemesis but as much as i dislike TQL

ID now part of the coalition are recruiting from TQL so the coalition are just as bad as TQL
 

--G--

Guest
Well you didn't turn against OMG, you turned against your tribe lol since the only thing that resulted in your personal support for OmG was the Northern part of TQL getting jumped on which you then ran away from.

Let me put it to you straight why everyone in K44 hates you, it's not because you an arse or any of that, it's because you don't think your actions through and how they affect other tribes before you do it. No, they don't like your co-leader/RL friend either, however much of a nice guy he is in the diplomacy room, because of the actions your tribe did. You were in a coalition with all these other tribes vs. a mutual enemy Riot! and you recruited Riot! players into your tribe, essentially taking the vast majority of the spoils of the war, whilst only being one of multiple tribes without even asking any of the other tribes if that was okay (BTW it obviously wasn't). Same with this -ND- recruitment, same with this recruitment from Para.

If I'm warring Para with Beast and Beast decides they want to recruit the best players from Para without even bothering telling me, then I'm gonna not be a happy bunny. The coalition did not backstab you, you kicked them right in the balls whilst claiming to be part of their team and expected to get no backlash from it. Arrogance at its highest. I'm surprised they didn't declare war on you sooner.

It was not my personal decision to back up omg, we had a pre game alliance with them, and we stayed true to it. I am just the one doing the talks.

You must be on a very high horse to believe I went independent because you declared war on TQL. If this is what you mean it's EXTREMELY STUPID.
 
Top