Failed Vote 24-Hour Cooldown on Resource Package Item(s)

Do you like this idea?


  • Total voters
    72
  • Poll closed .

FamousInferno

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I'm not sure if this has been formally suggested before, I had a look in the rejected section and could not see it posted there but I know this is something that has been talked about before, but figure I'd post a formal suggestion to see what the response would be.

I'd love to see a limit on the snowball effect of resource packages + Flag booster when it comes to the game, currently a large portion of the game comes down to who buys the most resource packages come event time and that's it. A lot of the core game mechanics of the past are undermined by these resource package items when they are used in combination with flag boosters. They are incredibly snowbally and reward big spenders and big players are punish those who are small spenders on the game or don't abuse the mechanic.

I know this is anecdotal evidence but I know others can back me up when I say this but on W113 we spent 25 days at the top of looting and scavenging but in 5 minutes from the recent event we generated more resources than those entire 25 days combined. - That is just insane, it devalued all the work of those last 25 days and also punished the players around us who legitimately had no chance to keep up with us or the 12 nobles we suddenly obtained.

On W112 a similar story was felt, you play the game, you have a lot of fun then an event rolls around where these items are on offer and suddenly you get a spike of around 50 nobles with relative ease. It just feels so counter intuitive. Is the vision of the game to be a barb nobling -> WH30 game where you ignore most of the elements because this one is too strong.

I just feel as though having a cooldown on the resource package item would still mean people buy the items and play the events but it's lest durastic and more of an overtime thing. It allows other elements of the game to shine and doesn't result in a crazy disparity. Similarly I'd love to see the flag booster not be allowed on coin flags, or tune it's effectiveness to be 50%.


Ultimately, this just feels like the biggest problem in the game, I see so many cool suggestions but this is the biggest underlying flaw of the game in the current state, I don't think it's fun, it isn't interactive, it punishes new players and those that aren't whales. While the change would still allow people to spend money and buy the item, it just wouldn't be so snowbally and game breaking.

Thanks so much.
 

JawJaw

Awesomest CM Ever
Tribal Wars Team
Community Management
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This idea is approved for voting. Good luck!
 

FamousInferno

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I really do not want this to be implemented.
Are you able to include why you don't want this to be implememted, I'd love to see an arguement so that I could get the chance to respond.

Is this a 24 hour cooldown after using a single resource package?
I think it would be smart to have a restructuring of the item system so that popping a 1% wouldn't stop you from popping a 10%,maybe remove the 1% 2% items and make them less frequent but reward them as 5% items. Alternatively there could be a cap daily so that you can only pop 30% worth of resource boosters in a given 24 hour time period.

I'd actually argue that 30% is still to significant daily and the the 30% item be changed to 3*10% then we are able to have a 10% maximum use per day.

Why I like the 10% per day cap
- It allows a level of counterplay and risk/reward system for going for effiecient flag booster + resource pacakage strategies, if you want to hoard your resources to get the most out of the flag booster you are going to have to sit with "Fuller" warehouses each day where if you get attacked you stand to have more to lose.
- It slows down the snowbally-ness of the combo

I'm going to include some pictures of accounts and let's see if we can spot where a 30% resource package + Flag booster combo was used.

evidence 1.PNG
evidence 2.PNG
evidence 3.PNG
evidence 5.PNG
evidence 6.PNG

The best part is I'll be able to follow up with these exact same graphs over this 14 day period as the current event allows this combo to be abused a few times, is this sort of thing healthy for the game?


I want to specifically highlight the first graph, that is my accounts graph in W113, as you can see we have 4 week period where our village count is relatively flat, during this time we maintain top stats for looter and top stats gathered, on the server we are pooling in the most resources out of any other single player. Now watch what happens as soon as 30% items are popped on our account. I'll give you a clue, it's when the graphgoes from a relateivlely flat 8 village count to a village count of 24 in just 3 days.

Thanks so much, I encourage anyone to vote no to include why so we can have an open discussion and put our ideas on the table.
 

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Cidvaramo

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123
I for instance have always whaited for these events since if you do not have too much money for pp these events are like gold for you, on the other hand the PP titans have even a bigger advantage to abuse that event so i think this cooldown is a perfect solution. In my opinion it should be 48hrs cooldown because as someone said its sad that you can gain a benefit of one whole farming day in just a click. So a big YES from me!
 

Hybris

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Two things.

1: Instead of having a CD on packages, make packages more rare. No packages from daily bonus, also remove 15,20,30,40% packs. Only 10% packages available for purchase in events with a higher cost than the usual 10%. For instance, growing crops is a good item, but is usually 3x more expensive than a 10% package. That's crazy considering 10% package can give 120k ress per village in X amount, while growing crops give ya an extra 300 lc and 1000 axes in 1 village.

2: Remove flagbooster for coin flags, quite simple flagbooster is a good item already on deff/off flags in OP's, deathstars etc, but having it on a coin flag will give co played accounts with high amount of ress packs a huge lead. It shouldn't be a ingame mechanic to sit 48 hours straight when you play solo if you wish to be a top 25 player. It has nothing to do with skills, it's a super simple thing, yet super exhausting and life consuming.
 

Messenger of Peace

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there are still ways to abuse the system even with cool down time for using resource packs;
what is game breaking is flag booster itself so in my opinion if you want game to be back to it's normal level we need to remove flag booster item from all events;
 

Blood monke6

New Member
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Im not gonna argue that it would make the game more fair cuz it would, but unless classics start fillin up to the point they are bigger then regular worlds and such, this shouldnt happen. They have classics so you can play without the money whore advantages and such and they arent that popular. So your basically asking inno to destroy their revunue to make the game more fair for you when the fair worlds they provide dont fill up much
 

EmperorFluff

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it would making start casual worlds so slow, and a lot of times I'm counting on resources packages for the event right away, plus when I need resouces for nobles/coins I have to use quite a bit of them so I can build trains. I really don't think this would the well at least that my opinion.
 

tudadar

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Tudadar punching the air right now lmao
Doesnt effect me much at all except in rare occasions. Can still mint weekly with full warehouses at the start. Id say it probably hurts the average account trying to compete with 24/7 accounts micro farming/scavenging all 4 lvls daily a lot more. Probably also hurts inno as it seems their #1 seller is the war packages they offer every few months.
 

tudadar

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Isnt letting me edit so graph above is extremely wasteful growth while insta building villages and being down 250k prem at the time. Would of been better off splitting minting up more and taking a week to build the villages like normal. Event actually hurt the highend prem farm as it gave most people access to 30% fillups for cheap giving them a chance to also make premium for themselves.
 

Shinko to Kuma

Still Going Strong
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adding a CD to resource packages won't make any difference to the situation.


Most people who get such significant boosts in growth are being fed resources while flag boost minting (I even made a script for that, which is public, that most of the bigger tribes are, or should be using in the current meta). A 30% resource pack gives about 360k res per village if the WH is built out everywhere. Seeing as a maxed out market only has 235 merchants (excluding good connections permanent buff or bonus villages), this means after one 30% pack all your merchants are already occupied to get to a flag boost village. Not flag boosting is an INSANE waste of resources, which is why the most optimal way will always be sending res around inside the tribe on a daily minting rotation.

The real culprit to these graphs is not the packages, it's the flag boosting of a high coin flag, added with noble decree. My last minting session on 110 before the fall of design netted me about 200 million of EACH res to one village. As an account with only 100 villages, that's simply not possible with res packages unless you pop 7 of them, and manage to SOMEHOW transfer all of them to the same village. So if we are talking the non-efficient way, by just popping packages and minting in the local village without coin flag, booster etc, we're talking 14 30% packages.


You're advocating for the wrong change. Packages aren't the culprit of the meta, flag boosters/streamers are.
 

Ragestyles

Still Going Strong
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499
adding a CD to resource packages won't make any difference to the situation.


Most people who get such significant boosts in growth are being fed resources while flag boost minting (I even made a script for that, which is public, that most of the bigger tribes are, or should be using in the current meta). A 30% resource pack gives about 360k res per village if the WH is built out everywhere. Seeing as a maxed out market only has 235 merchants (excluding good connections permanent buff or bonus villages), this means after one 30% pack all your merchants are already occupied to get to a flag boost village. Not flag boosting is an INSANE waste of resources, which is why the most optimal way will always be sending res around inside the tribe on a daily minting rotation.

The real culprit to these graphs is not the packages, it's the flag boosting of a high coin flag, added with noble decree. My last minting session on 110 before the fall of design netted me about 200 million of EACH res to one village. As an account with only 100 villages, that's simply not possible with res packages unless you pop 7 of them, and manage to SOMEHOW transfer all of them to the same village. So if we are talking the non-efficient way, by just popping packages and minting in the local village without coin flag, booster etc, we're talking 14 30% packages.


You're advocating for the wrong change. Packages aren't the culprit of the meta, flag boosters/streamers are.
Ty, that's why i and tudadar aka the pp whales voted no.

Setting a limit on respacks % per day used won't really change shit. If anything what's gonna end up happening is that the discrepancy between the pp whales who boost their accs on startup with the premium exchange up will get even bigger since smaller players will then now have less of catch up mechanics.


Also if you remove these insane money making methods of inno, how do u think will they fund their servers and employees in the future?
You think people like darren would have spent 3500$ on w109 warpacks if they were limited on using those respacks that they have spent irl money on?

With a change like this one normal casual players are gonna hurt themselves more than the pp whales.
 

FamousInferno

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Firstly I really appreciate everyone taking the time to right out a response, seeing the response to is eye opening indeed.

Beautifully said Cidvaramo, I believe its the same sinking feeling I get, except it really is worse than 1 day of farming.

I had this typed up earlier but didn't hit send as got distracted in-game and in life but still going to post as it was my thoughts around the time of Cidvaramo's post. A lot of the points brought up have actually already mentioned this.

On W113
1 * 30% Boost on our account is the equivalent of 11 days of straight being the LOTD in 1 second.

On W112
1 * 30% Boost on our account is the equivalent of 4 days of straight farming being the looter of the day in 1 second ( I think this amount if worse than shown just due to the fact accounts are farming each other to boost LOTD on this world)

Then you need to consider that those resources are being put to a more efficient use through the flag booster + coin reduced method so they are effectively worth even more resources than initially believed.

The cooldown like you said would even the playing field, it would still allow big pp spenders to get their advantage and use it, but it wouldn't be so instant and they wouldn't get to double dip on efficiency with the flag booster item.

On a side note:

I'm worried I should have had 3 separate ideas polled, but I wasn't even sure that this idea would be approved for voting. I do want to give a special thanks to JawJaw for allowing it to be.

I think visiting 3 separate ideas and voting on those could be better however I think all 3 ideas need to come together.


1. Reducing the effectiveness of the flag booster by 50% or alternatively keeping it at full effectiveness but not allowing it to be used on -Coin reduced flags.

2. Having a 24-Hour Cooldown on Resource Package items or only allowing a total of 10/20% total resource package to be used daily.

3. Removing the 30% resource package item or alternatively instead making it 3 * 10% Resource Package and limiting these as mentioned above

I'm not sure if people are being disingenuious with their responses, the nature of these boosts increase with scalability, having 1 10% WH30 giving just 40k/40k/40k while still is strong is not game breaking or problematic. It's when players like tudadar and myself are able to continous noble barbs and other players and generate a snowball effect with the premium market, there is no catch up mechanic that Ragestyle is talking about. It's quite the opposite we are shooting further ahead we are up 50k+ from this event and that is with missing a day of purchases as I passed out before the reset time. A 30% Warehouse booster does far more for me than it does for a player with a smaller number of villages so I'm confused why you say it's a catch up mechanic? I'd say it's the opposite it's a snowball mechanic.

I mean I'm sure myself Ragestyles and Tudadar all have a lot to gain with these sort of events as it can fund us infinitely without any sort of real risk. Events that allow these mechanics to be exploited are a god send for us and I can see us making 200k+ per event like this on a new world.

Adding the cooldown along with the 10% will make a difference.
- Doesn't generate a shit tonne of nobles out of no where you have to space it out over 24 hours.
- Comes with an increased risk of having your warehouses full if you want to wait out multiple of these 10% buffs.

Regarding Shinto's post I much prefer having a tribe coordinate together to get an advantage than a single player being able to buy his way ahead, at least the tribe working together rewards teamplay and cohesion, but I still do agree the flag booster is problematic but that doesn't make resource packages not.

Question: Is it fine for the a player to generate more resources in a 5 minute period that they did at max looter, max scavenger for the entire previous 25 days of the world?

I guess that is my issue, if you believe it's fine because innno gets payed at the end of the day then that makes sense, but from a game balance standpoint I think it's just silly.
 

haha212

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This is a good idea, sadly it doesn't solve the problem. Being able to sell res on world 110,111,112 and then being able to buy 3x the res on world 113 is the real problem.

Until the below formula doesn't work, TribalWars will continue to lose players.

W1 * P = W2


W1 = Infinite Supply of PP from other Non-played Worlds
P = Current Res Price
W
2 = Infinite Res on Played World
 

FamousInferno

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just play non premium worlds/ classic worlds if you don't like this system 4Head
Because you can't have a balance of both? That's such a weak arguement to fall back on. If that is what you default to where considering game balance, enjoyability and game design that just feels like a defeatest outlook.

Let's say an item was added that instantaenous added a nuke to your village. Would you also defend that system and say "Just play classic 4Head". It's about reaching an equialibrium of making innogames money, making the game enjoyable for new players, experienced players, big premium spenders, small premium spenders and non premium spenders (While they don't make money inno money directly they still provide players for us to play against ect).

I just feel as though looking into the proposed changes of


1. Reducing the effectiveness of the flag booster by 50% or alternatively keeping it at full effectiveness but not allowing it to be used on -Coin reduced flags.

2. Having a 24-Hour Cooldown on Resource Package items or only allowing a total of 10/20% total resource package to be used daily.

3. Removing the 30% resource package item or alternatively instead making it 3 * 10% Resource Package and limiting these as mentioned above

Reaches a common ground of game balance, making prior system and mechanics no longer obsolete, decreasing the disparity between small pp spenders and larger ones.

I'm assuming you were joking with your comment, but in an improvements forum I don't know if it's the time and place, especially when you are one to be seen benefiting from the current system despite saying that its a "catch up mechanic"