A message to all Insomniacs

[ender_wiggin]

There we go, this is more along the lines of what I was expecting, nice job!

We certainly have different definitions of familytribe. When I think of a family, I think of one tribe spread across many factions; people who try to circumvent the tribal limit by branching out into different groups. Similar diplomacy and interchangeable members.

You've got many good points, however, I think you got a little excited, and posted some things you probably wish you didn't. For example, the pre-made family tribe statement would be a hard one to proove. Certainly you have some proof to back that up? That's just ridiculous.

I don't consider the strategic use of diplomacy and NAPs as cheating and/or manipulating the rules. Diplomacy is part of the game.

Normally, I would agree with your definition of family tribe. However, with your tribe having the tribe limit early on on a world where having that made you have a huge fraction of the world pop would fulfill the spirit behind family tribe.

As far as diplomacy, I'm not complaining. Now, granted, NAPing/allying everything is annoying, but that's life.

You've admitted to being a pre-formed tribe before. Don't back out of it now.

Since you're pointing to examples, I've got a couple for you. Would you consider the likes of a BLOC style alliance, to be a family tribe; do you consider them cheats?.

I don't. However, it's a close distinction. If the BLOC allied outside of itself, than it's a family. If it's just being exclusive in alliances, than no. Especially as they began as small tribes allying each other... and worked their way to the top together.

How about the likes of WB in the last HP round? Certainly, they had some serious diplomacy going on (a lot more than what we've got going on). I know this because I was a victim of it, early on in the round, when I was in Shhh. When we had the Elders and WB gangbanging us. Then I asked KOL if they wanted to join us against those two, and they couldn't because they were NAPd with them. lol

You forget, I was there. I don't say diplomacy is neccessarily bad. However, I do disagree with the amount they had. I ended up quitting the tribe and world, and wrote about what I thought. lol. So my opinion on that is already firmly written in those annuls.

There's a big difference between not liking the way a tribe does things and calling them cheaters.

I believe what family tribes do ruins the game, and is paramount to cheating.

I disagree; TW.net is divided between those who enjoy the late game, and those who hate the baggage that comes along with it and like farming. I'd say it's a mixed bag. If you were talking about "your tribes" beliefs, we have our opinion and you have yours. I think we all play this game for fun. We just have fun in different ways.

The point I was making wasn't about when you have fun. It's about what you play for. You've made the point, and your RIP tribal companion as well, that winning is the ultimate goal. My point is, if we wanted to win no matter the cost, we would have. We believe that fair gameplay and fun gameplay is more important.

You forget that we had to deal with WWTLF and DOKDO and other tribes (Hoch) early on too. You guys act like we were just sitting around at the beginning of the server, sitting on our hands and watching you guys fight each other.

If you don't remember, I started in that general area, and I was attacked and/or scouted by WWTLF, TS (Vsax and two others), and DOKDO's members. Who most certainly weren't going to grant me a one verse one, I lost my offense so I just restarted.

You were standing back, supporting people, and playing a defensive game. However, you weren't nobling us while we were fighting you alone. You'd only attack tribes as they were being attacked by others. That's what I was talking about.

I clearly stated "but I don't know about the alliance part"; that was just an assumption of mine early on, because you guys were both targeting 24/24; I remembered somebody stating that the whole world was going to gang up on them -- I think it was Relentless, I just took his word for it, maybe I made a mistake?

We did all gang up on 24/24. But not as allies. Just the fact they were mass recruiting made them target #1. We still attacked each other, just both hated them.

I would have to agree with you, and I'm glad you have some concern with it -- especially on such a small world.

It's just I understand inactivity problems. I have very little time, but might play if I found a few players I could trust and play with, so my account stayed as active as a normal account.

That's because they ask the same questions. I figure eventually they will get it.

Saying the same thing won't answer anything.

 

[DeletedUser]

Normally, I would agree with your definition of family tribe. However, with your tribe having the tribe limit early on on a world where having that made you have a huge fraction of the world pop would fulfill the spirit behind family tribe.

Aww, you changed your definition of family tribe just for me, thanks Ender. :icon_redface:

The reason why people see family tribes as cheaters, is they are "circumventing" the tribe limit. Meaning, "hey, I can only have 30 members in this one tribe", "let's start up a few more so we can recruit more people and make our tribe larger". So they are taking advantage of the rules, setup by the tribal wars staff, therefore cheating.

In using the 30 member tribe limit that the game staff suggested we use, we are not taking advantage of any rule and nor were we breaking any.
Had we known beforehand there wouldn't have been huge turnout in this HP round, we would have cut our numbers down, and some other tribes have stated the same -- hell, I think I even suggested we have tribe limits of 15-20, with their being no outside support for other tribes. But most thought 30 was a good idea.

As far as diplomacy, I'm not complaining. Now, granted, NAPing/allying everything is annoying, but that's life.

I pointed out the long list of tribes we've fought and/or eliminated, obviously, we didn't have too many allies.

You've admitted to being a pre-formed tribe before. Don't back out of it now.

I've never been apart of a pre-formed tribe before. I do however, have 3 other people I know to help me lead, that do play with me in other worlds. I don't have time to be a one man show. But if we were to consider that a pre-made, almost every tribe to ever play HP would be a pre-made.

That's not to say I'm totally against it. I think it's probably the most effective strategy in bigger worlds -- especially if you are the "it's not how you finish it's how you start" type. It's still not "cheating", however, just a tad bit "distasteful" dong it in an HP round. in my book.

The point I was making wasn't about when you have fun. It's about what you play for. You've made the point, and your RIP tribal companion as well, that winning is the ultimate goal.

If you can have fun and win at the same time, I'd say that's the perfect scenario. We certainly aren't going to hang our heads, if that's what you're saying; I assure you, we've had a hell of a time. But this round isn't over yet, anything can happen.

Saying the same thing won't answer anything.

It's not necessarily that I repeat myself, I'm just consistent in my beliefs.

You forget, I was there. I don't say diplomacy is neccessarily bad. However, I do disagree with the amount they had. I ended up quitting the tribe and world, and wrote about what I thought. lol. So my opinion on that is already firmly written in those annuls.

Oh, I know you were in WB.

Answer the question, were they cheaters - yes or no?

I do remember you disagreeing with them, however, I don't ever recall you calling them "cheaters" or "family whores". Quite the "double standard" there.

I was setting a trap for you, and you ran straight into it.
Your honor I rest my case.

 

[Deathbringer989]

I do remember you disagreeing with them, however, I don't ever recall you calling them "cheaters" or "family whores". Quite the "double standard" there.
.

Incorrect, I did receive a small amount of abuse and advice from Ender, I didn't fight that criticism, I used it to learn and since have been much more successful. You however, have chosen to fight the quicksand, and so you will be engulfed by it. At this point you need to listen to the experienced player, then use the knowledge to improve your style. Being stubborn will get you nowhere.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is what I wrote:

I do remember you disagreeing with them, however, I don't ever recall you calling them "cheaters" or "family whores". Quite the "double standard" there.

This is your response:

Incorrect, I did receive a small amount of abuse and advice from Ender, I didn't fight that criticism, I used it to learn and since have been much more successful.

You totally missed the point, once again.

 

[Deathbringer989]

You totally missed the point, once again.

I saw the "Do".

I was disagreeing to the other half of the sentence.

 

[Philotic]

I’m really disappointed that you’re stooping to that level, here I was preparing myself for a solid P&P debate, but it doesn’t look like I’m going to get it.
But I'll play along...

Wouldn’t that be an oxymoron? Point whores and turtles? First we are mass recruiters. Now we are pre-made cheaters? I gotta tell you Ender, many of you have totally contradicted yourself, and seem to now just be randomly spewing insults and trying to distort the accomplishments of others, and that’s just foul.

There we go, this is more along the lines of what I was expecting, nice job!

Aww, you changed your definition of family tribe just for me, thanks Ender. :icon_redface:

Please stop the condescending, it is starting to become irritating.

Fight fair, or not at all.

 

[DeletedUser]

Please stop the condescending, it is starting to become irritating.

Fight fair, or not at all.

Forgive me if I came across as condescending, that was just my way of trying to lighten up the discussion a bit.

Despite our differences, I have a lot of respect for Ender; like I said, I think he did a fine job stating his case (that wasn't me being sarcastic, I meant that). That doesn't mean I'm going to shy away from it. Especially with so many outlandish comments being made. Though, he won't admit it in this thread, I'm sure he has a lot more respect for those who challenge him rather than kiss his *&^.

If he's going to call me out, I'm going to make him work for it.

 

[ender_wiggin]

Aww, you changed your definition of family tribe just for me, thanks Ender. :icon_redface:

The reason why people see family tribes as cheaters, is they are "circumventing" the tribe limit. Meaning, "hey, I can only have 30 members in this one tribe", "let's start up a few more so we can recruit more people and make our tribe larger". So they are taking advantage of the rules, setup by the tribal wars staff, therefore cheating.

In using the 30 member tribe limit that the game staff suggested we use, we are not taking advantage of any rule and nor were we breaking any.
Had we known beforehand there wouldn't have been huge turnout in this HP round, we would have cut our numbers down, and some other tribes have stated the same -- hell, I think I even suggested we have tribe limits of 15-20, with their being no outside support for other tribes. But most thought 30 was a good idea.

Changed it for HP.

I pointed out the long list of tribes we've fought and/or eliminated, obviously, we didn't have too many allies.

You didn't fight or eliminate most of those tribes. You came in on the END of the battle.

I've never been apart of a pre-formed tribe before. I do however, have 3 other people I know to help me lead, that do play with me in other worlds. I don't have time to be a one man show. But if we were to consider that a pre-made, almost every tribe to ever play HP would be a pre-made.

That's not to say I'm totally against it. I think it's probably the most effective strategy in bigger worlds -- especially if you are the "it's not how you finish it's how you start" type. It's still not "cheating", however, just a tad bit "distasteful" dong it in an HP round. in my book.

Eh, part of the game is recruitment. .

If you can have fun and win at the same time, I'd say that's the perfect scenario. We certainly aren't going to hang our heads, if that's what you're saying; I assure you, we've had a hell of a time. But this round isn't over yet, anything can happen.

I would say that playing the way you do, against the spirit of the game, is ruining the fun spirit of the game.

It's not necessarily that I repeat myself, I'm just consistent in my beliefs.

Oh, I know you were in WB.

Answer the question, were they cheaters - yes or no?

I do remember you disagreeing with them, however, I don't ever recall you calling them "cheaters" or "family whores". Quite the "double standard" there.

I was setting a trap for you, and you ran straight into it.
Your honor I rest my case.

Erm, you obviously haven't read what I wrote about them. I said that everyone in that world was playing tribalhugs, and disgusted me. That included WB. I quit the very MOMENT WB formed a second tribe.

Don't even TRY to patronize me. Do your research before you DARE accuse me of that, or declare a moral victory. You ruin the spirit of the game, and then dare to act high handed? You disgust me with your hypocrasy.

And, if you ever saw the ingame mails I had sent to Deathbringer when WB formed Ghost, you'd be whistling a much different tune. As well, check my discussion on Ghost's activities, and you'll see I criticized and denounced their gameplay more than ANYONE on HP.

P.S.: Providing links to proof:

http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=64508

 

[Ripfin]

No. But he needs to get out there and find a job, though. (j/k).
I'm not the one that mentioned cheating, you did.

I do have a job its just at home like a lot of people, have an office and everything here.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol, i feel foolish for posting here. forum debates are never settled because online is when people have no problem being as foremost as possible and never ceasing an argument even if it means repeating one's self.

While amish is correct for saying fun is subjective, i still standby that it was the other tribes' boredom, worn and torn villages from battling eachother, and our arrogance when they decided to fight us (the troop numbers and co-ordination speaks for itself). WWTLF was their first victory wasn't it? Don't get me wrong, WWTLF can't complain (and they didn't) that they were outnumbered and beaten for it, but WAAO can't gloat about a 30 vs. 1 battle and being victorious. Amish is also correct for saying that they were entirely reasonable for choosing a pre-made of the tribe limit since almost all who joined HP expected there to be more people (TS especially :lol: ) and they assumed there would be other 30 man tribe. Ender, you have a point, but since this was a pre-made they weren't psychic and able to tell.

Amish IMO didn't display the most mature of behavior, but i've seen waaay worse on this game. This paragraph was supposed to lead somewhere, but i forgot what my point for saying that was...

either way, i'm sorry for my insults. i didn't display the proper maturity either. Ender wins on that one.

*pouts in corner* :lol:

I'll be gone in a month or so, but two-face will go on. :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

lol, i feel foolish for posting here. forum debates are never settled because online is when people have no problem being as foremost as possible and never ceasing an argument even if it means repeating one's self.

either way, i'm sorry for my insults. i didn't display the proper maturity either. Ender wins on that one.

*pouts in corner* :lol:

I'll be gone in a month or so, but two-face will go on. :icon_wink:

It's all in good fun man, this is afterall a game. I never took anything you said personally, just doing my job.

As you can imagine, HP is pretty boring right now. We likely won't see much action until after half our tribe goes inactive and all the smaller tribes gang up on us (which has been going on), which I look forward to

I'll probably join one of the newer worlds (w27 or 28) with some friends, depending on the settings. I have some friends who play in w24, but I don't like starting late.

Cya around

 

[ender_wiggin]

It's all in good fun man, this is afterall a game. I never took anything you said personally, just doing my job.

As you can imagine, HP is pretty boring right now. We likely won't see much action until after half our tribe goes inactive and all the smaller tribes gang up on us (which has been going on), which I look forward to

I'll probably join one of the newer worlds (w27 or 28) with some friends, depending on the settings. I have some friends who play in w24, but I don't like starting late.

Cya around

No response to me? Figures.

 

[DeletedUser]

No response to me? Figures.

I already answered it, in posts 82 and 84. I knew what your response would be before you even posted it, and worded my response accordingly.

You're the one who's taken the high road and claimed a "moral" victory, throughout this entire thread.

If you want to continue throwing temper tantrums go right ahead, but I'm not going to waste my time responding to it.

 

[ender_wiggin]

I already answered it, in posts 82 and 84. I knew what your response would be before you even posted it, and worded my response accordingly.

You're the one who's taken the high road and claimed a "moral" victory, throughout this entire thread.

If you want to continue throwing temper tantrums go right ahead, but I'm not going to waste my time responding to it.

Pshaw, you're trying to act like you're taking a "high road" when you've taken the low road the entire conversation? Pretty hypocritical.

You're just unable to respond to the fact that I've proven you wrong. I say the same thing about family tribes, no matter who is in them. Talk to Deathbringer. I'm sure he'll tell you all about the scorching mails I sent him when Ghost formed.

 

[Deathbringer989]

Talk to Deathbringer. I'm sure he'll tell you all about the scorching mails I sent him when Ghost formed.

I'm glad you did, I could have ended up like Amish.

 

[DeletedUser]

Pshaw, you're trying to act like you're taking a "high road" when you've taken the low road the entire conversation? Pretty hypocritical.

You're just unable to respond to the fact that I've proven you wrong. I say the same thing about family tribes, no matter who is in them. Talk to Deathbringer. I'm sure he'll tell you all about the scorching mails I sent him when Ghost formed.

You're just unable to respond to the fact that I've proven you wrong. I say the same thing about family tribes, no matter who is in them. Talk to Deathbringer. I'm sure he'll tell you all about the scorching mails I sent him when Ghost formed.

You guys are beating a dead horse here, posting in a thread that had nothing to do with you, in a world that you are no longer a part of, spewing nothing but bitter insults with very little substance to back up your claims. Really, what have you proven in this entire thread? Nothing.

I didn’t respond because I’ve already responded many times:

I do remember you disagreeing with them (referring to your thread, perhaps I should have spelled it out a little better), however, I don't ever recall you calling them "cheaters" or "family whores". Quite the "double standard" there.

There's a big difference between not liking the way a tribe does things and calling them cheaters.

Here’s your argument in a nut shell:
“you mass recruiting - point whoring pre-made family cheater”

Really, this is just junk.

You made the statement that we were "a point whoring pre-made family" and haven’t stated a single thing that supported that statement. Heck, you even admitted that you changed your definition of family tribe just to fit this world, and just to fit in with your argument -- and I'm still wondering why you said we were pre-made?!

Nothing you guys have stated in this thread has been consistent. These are just bitter insults. Bitter rants.

Let's face it, you came into this thread with sour grapes, and made many statements that weren't accurate, therefore very hard to prove, and you've been trying to spin your way out of it ever since.

Trying to get the last word isn't going to change that, let's face it, you guys were out of line.

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm glad you did, I could have ended up like Amish.

The funny thing is, he considers us "cheats" for using the tribal limit to our advantage. The tribal limit. Early in the round, we had two NAPs, one with 24/24 and one with Boofmcboof (who was one player).

You guys ACTUALLY DID start a family tribe and have the whole world marked as allies See the difference? I won't lie and say I wasn't a part of that, (as a player) in fact, it's the only family tribe I've ever been apart of, one created by you guys.

But it's still funny. lol

 

[ender_wiggin]

Created by "us guys"?

First things first, I wasn't leadership. Secondly, I told them off about how doing so was cheating, the moment they got a sister tribe.

So you acting like you're right... doesn't make it true. I quit the moment it occured, made public mention of my disgust.

As for the other points, you going "NO NO NO NO" doesn't make it any less true. Sorry.

BTW, arguing with point whoring when you took the highest pointed player from your biggest competitor... no way that you can argue that one.

 

[DeletedUser]

As for the other points, you going "NO NO NO NO" doesn't make it any less true. Sorry.

I could make a statement that there's a spaghetti monster orbiting the earth, and nobody here could prove me wrong (or atleast nobody would want to waste the effort trying to), but does that make it true?

 

[Deathbringer989]

And once again the argument swings back round to -:WB:-.

I've admitted my mistakes, and have changed my ways. Swallow your pride AG and do the same, before it goes too far and respect becomes beyond reach.

Death.