Open Discussion Alternative solutions to delayed support feature

Mintyfresh

Skilled Soldier 2018
Tribal Wars Team
Hi valued members of the community

The delayed support feature as displayed here in this post was announced yesterday and then thanks to considerable community feedback it was fortunately cancelled as per this post here.

However the core issues that has been raised by the development team as something they want to address has not gone away. To quote:

As we all know, support for incoming noble trains is essential for high level players. When we added the option to send noble trains as a full feature back in 8.35 in 2015, we already made the process easier to understand for new players, and easier to execute for everyone who knows what they’re doing. After many years and uses of this feature, we did notice however, that defending against noble trains is still very difficult. While many players are rightfully proud of having mastered these tactics, new players or even those with less time still have a lot of trouble with both planning and successfully executing support moves for incoming trains. And, of course, some players utilize external support and tools, which could be a barrier to players unaware that they exist.
To paraphrase it, what they essentially aiming to do is reduce the information gap between good player and noob player and also reduce the time burden to some extent on defending. Good players with experience know what to do and how to defend which is fine but they also want to make it possible for someone with less time and less experience to also defend. Which ultimately i think is a good thing because learning to snipe is just scraping the beginning of the defending metagame but its also such a basic and necessary tool that everyone at all layers of the game utilizes. I dont have a problem if everyone has the potential to snipe trains and i suspect the only people who would have a problem with it are probably just mad they cant noob crush anymore. This applies both to the information on how to snipe/defend and also to the tools available to assist people in said sniping. There are many snipe scripts and stuff around but if you dont know they exist then they arent very helpful.

However the proposed solution was to simply throw what is essentially an auto-sniping bot into the mix. To me this is like using a tactical nuke to demolish a wall. Yeah it would get the job done but consequences would be far reaching and devastating to the surrounding area. I personally believe that giving a new player such a powerful tool that they can use with zero understanding of how it actually works and does nothing to increase their overall playing ability isnt really a productive course of action. Instead i (and hopefully you nerds as well) favour a method to teach new players what to do rather than give them a powerful bot that does it for them. Information is power after all.


We not only planned to make this a bit easier for players who are still learning the game, but also to help high level and experienced players to execute their strategies with less hassle. They could focus on their defensive tactics instead of a timer near the keyboard, and there would be way less need resorting to external tools or scripts.
The second part is something i have personally reflected on quite a lot over the years. The dev team seem to be aware that defending is very time restrictive. Unlike attacking where you can fire and forget to some extent at any point you prefer, defending is a lot more reactive. You have to respond to what attackers are doing which often puts people into a situation where they have to either sacrifice time spent doing other things to focus on defending. This has always been a problem to some extend with TW from the very beginning. You either sacrifice your family/job/social time or you sacrifice your ability to defend. In fact the most attacking strategies boil down to simply overwhelming the defender to the extent they cant cope with the time demands and inevitably start to lose.

I honestly dont know if this is something that can actually be changed or fixed without fundamentally changing the way TW is played. Its an integral part of the way the game operates. Its something that the majority of the playerbase either implicitly or explicitly understand. I think this is an inherent flaw with TW, every game has its strengths and weaknesses and this is one of the bigger weaknesses with TW. Its my opinion as someone who has defended countless fronts/worlds/whatever that if you play perfect as a defender than you are unbeatable. The defender always has the (theoretical) advantage in TW due to the nature of having time to react to an attackers move. They have limited opportunities/strategies to attack and you have essentially unlimited methods/strategies with which to defend. The obvious caveat is that its not possible to defend perfectly because we are only human which is why worlds never end up in a stalemate because sooner or later (usually sooner) people make mistakes and start to lose.

The only way i think it would be possible to implement a system that would allow you to defend with fewer burdens on your time would be to also somehow reduce the potential power of a defender in response. Because if you can defend with less time constraints but your effectiveness at defending is not also reduced then people wont be overwhelmed and they wont quit and then the worlds dont end. If it became impossible to defend regardless of perfect play, if the attacker always had an advantage then that would allow the implementation of compensation to the defender (in this case time). As to how that would be done i genuinely dont have a good idea. It would require a lot of experimentation and trial and error to find a good balance between time and defensive power

So the question(s) is i would like us to consider is:

How can the dev team ensure that the tools and information are available to help the players help themselves?

How can the time constraining barriers to defending be mitigated without causing defending to be too strong?


Please let me know your thoughts. I will post my ideas later on once i've had time to think upon it.
 

crymerci

Member
You could implement the feature, but only allow it to be used once per X amount of time (24, 48, or 72 hours for example). It would allow it to be used in a real emergency (you have to send a snipe but your kid just fell down and got hurt and is bleeding and crying) but not be OP. This way it would be useful for everyone in the early game period, especially for newer players to see how a snipe works, but not affect endgame play much.
 

IAmAbel

Non-stop Poster
This is, according to me, not the main issue why new players will have a hard time against skilled ones.
Surely, we in the top tier (yeah I´m gonna be such an ass an include myself in top tier of tw) do never miss snipes and we almost never loose villages at all, much because of lots and lots of training. We don´t see new players as a threat at all and just roll them over without any effort, then we continue playing the world until we finally reach an endgame war with other good players.

New players here don´t stand a chance, but it is hardly because of not being able to snipe trains. The issue is much more complex than just that, and inno crew trying to help newer players would once again just backfire and once again just make the gap between good and bad players even bigger. This shows us, once again, that no one in innogames really plays the game and have probably never been good at playing the game at all.

Would new players be able to defend themselves just because they can snipe better? No, they are smaller, have much less firepower and they overall don´t know how to defend.
Will new players find it EVEN HARDER to take villages from experienced ones? Yes, now it would be totally impossible. The gap would be even bigger.

The issue is not, and have never been sniping or such. The issue is, according to me: Knowledge about how to defend, how to prepare for an attack and overall snowball effect of the game.

Lets say I am to face off against a new player. I will be rank 1 with 10 villages and that poor lad have not gotten an academy yet. I send a train and he snipes it easily with this new tool, I don´t even find it annoying and I send another train, this time taking the village. The new player never really stood a chance.

Here the problem is that I have been able to grow soo much faster because of pp being way to strong and because I know what build order to use in every situation. There is no way for the new player to get this knowledge, he need players to learn him how to, the game just won´t. Tw is unique in how bad it tells new players how to play the game, the information is just not there. How will a player know what to go for, when to farm, how to snipe, when to snipe? The quests is a joke and it only tells players how to loose just like "Welcome to tribalwars, do these things so that you can give away your village to a stronger player, that player thank you for giving him/her a free village".

We need tribalwars team to start giving new players information, every other game does this (at least every game I played beside tw on phones) and tw, despite being my favorite game, is the worst game in helping new players with information.

Add a little button where you can press to get some help. Like if you get an red attack and you have troops at home, press the button and it will come a text that says:
"you don´t have enough troops at home to defend for this attack.
Your wall is too low to defend for this attack
There is no nobleman in this attack
*Best option is to dodge this attack by sending your troops to another village (or attack a barb or whatever)*

This cannot be hard. Good players know when to defend and when to dodge, when to snipe and when to stack. Best thing would be to add an kind of beginner wheel button you can press for help with current situation.
This applies to everything in the game, including growth.

This is a dream, but no one in innogames knows about the game so they would probably help new players the wrong way. New players could easily learn to grow fast, heck I shown 2 worlds in a row how easy you can grow using just barbs and a decent build order (and a heckload of ress sending between villages).

So basically, innogames need to start taking responsibility to educate new players, I have done countless guides and helped so many people with such things, but I no longer have time and I am no longer willing to do it. This should be done by the game itself, not its players.
 
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Liamhughes

Member
I like the idea of creating so called “training worlds” in order to teach newer players how to play the game

Certain rules/settings can be implemented so that experienced players can’t enter them to simply gain free world wins and have an incentive to actually help newer players learn the game

Rules/settings that I think could be implemented are:

-No achievements
-Faster speeds so worlds don’t last very long (say a 2 month life span on worlds)
-250ms Gaps between nobles (instead of the standard 50-100ms)
-An updated mentoring system so that players who go there and help newer players gain flags
-Updated quest systems that help a player learn the basic fundamentals of the game (instead of the Pretty basic quest line we currently have that just helps you build a village , get a noble and capture another village, as once this is achieved a newer player hasn’t learnt much that’ll help them in the later stages of the world)

I’m sure there could be things added to this also , but This is all I can think of at this current time
 

DeathBySnuSnu

Non-stop Poster
To make the tools and information available to new players is terribly simple, anytime the mods approve a script for use have the player submitting it include a guide to use it. Then post both on the tw forums and the new players not only have access to the scripts but the knowledge to use them. Allow replies to this thread of guides/scripts and new players can ask questions to be answered by mods or veteran players, you can also improve rewards for mentoring to encourage experienced players to mentor new players.
 

Fleezus Clyde

Forum Personality 2017
Sniping quests.

Have a barb send 4 x 1 spear at you.

Make ones for cancel sniping, barb bouncing & when you conquer 2 villages regular sniping.... that way as new players start; by the time they have 2 villages they should have a decent grasp of sniping. Moreover, put an option in the game for these quests to be repeated for practice infinite times (remove the reward but let people practice as much as they want). Also make the quests rather rewarding so players are motivated to complete them!

Secondly, it that's not enough .... add a built in MS clock to the game to help familiarize new people with the fast pace of the game.

Sniping is not something that should be handed to players but I agree with the above that educating new players with these skills is essential to maintaining them.
 

IAmAbel

Non-stop Poster
Cant you just have an tab where you can have the game put you in certain situations?

Like right of "settings" we have "tw school" and there you will have to do the right decision on 20 in game related quest. You get to another tab where you have an simulated village where you have a certain situation. For example:

Quest 1 you have a village with 500spears 500swords and you get an attack. Game tells you to "dodge this attack" and if you do it, you complete the task. There is an information text there on why you did the right choice and how to think, maybe even an youtube video about some lame guy talking about it.

Quest 2 you have a village with 20000 spears 20000 swords and get a noble train. Game tells you that you have enough troops and to take the attack. You do, and you complete the task. There is an information text there on why you did the right choice and how to think, maybe even an youtube video about some lame guy talking about it.

Quest 3 you have 5000 spears 5000 swords and you get a noble train, game tells you to dodgesnipe it, and how to do it, and if you do you complete the task. If you fail, you can simply try again. There is an information text there on why you did the right choice and how to think, maybe even an youtube video about some lame guy talking about it.

Etc.
Once you completed all 20 quest you will get "tw master" status and some kind of items or whatever. Maybe an little item for every quest. Not important, just so we can get players to do it.

Once every day you login you get an popup saying "hey wanna do some tw school quests?"
You can always press the "tw school" tab and really master your snipes and such, doing quest 3 hundreds of times.
 

MarcMadness

Member
I really like the idea of sniping quests to teach new players the basic defending. Like Fleez said.
Also how about a dodge quest as well because as a new player I didnt know what dodging was all those years ago and maybe even an explanation of what troops are best at what.
For example Swords for def but put that in the barracks so everyone knows not just people who have played for a while.
Also build in the EZ snipe script to TW tool bar as standard and have a quest showing how to use it. Maybe incorporate it into the quest where you snipe inc from a barb.

As for saving time what about auto tag script built into tw saves loads of time because you then dont need to be online to tag incs on a big OP.
And if that happens a notification to tell you it's a nobleman.

I mean that saves time but you still need the skill to actually accomplish the snipe.
 

Namek

New Member
I'm agree with this tool (delayed support). It not only benefits beginners.

This is a good way to evade bots and externals tools which only beneficts a few people that can access to it. That extra information (time perfection) is not based on a strategy or tactic game, now it is just an advantage out of place, and allows even a low experienced player to keep their villages for more time than a good player without external tools.

Anyway an experienced player will find the way to break the disadvantage.
Good players should focus on how to select the amount of troops, their village's location for support, and other important or more relevant things than hit the time on the exact millisec.

The information should be accessible to all and in the same conditions. Then we could talk about playability.
 
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Plewbs

New Member
Would new players be able to defend themselves just because they can snipe better? No, they are smaller, have much less firepower and they overall don´t know how to defend.
Will new players find it EVEN HARDER to take villages from experienced ones? Yes, now it would be totally impossible. The gap would be even bigger.
dd a little button where you can press to get some help. Like if you get an red attack and you have troops at home, press the button and it will come a text that says:
"you don´t have enough troops at home to defend for this attack.
Your wall is too low to defend for this attack
There is no nobleman in this attack
*Best option is to dodge this attack by sending your troops to another village (or attack a barb or whatever)*
Totally agree on these both. Noone of the better players want this function and it wouldn't be a benefit for beginners either..
Ill remember as a noob myself I didn't know the right choices about sniping/dodging/blocking/fakes, just a bad put together help post at the tribe forum..
If you don't even know these things, you aren't going to be getting one benefit from it. You need more experienced mates to help you make the right choices and push you into the right direction (someone will get this reference). Overall I don't think it will be the right thing for anybody to implement this function so just leave the idea and focus on things like educating like mentioned above.
And if the inventor of this idea has the power and is that stubborn to push it into the game at some point anyway... Pls put it in the game like the militia; Its only available when you have 1 village and disables after expansion..
 

SergeantCrunsh

Non-stop Poster
Problem 1: Skill Gap Vs Information Gap
As an introduction to my idea I want to explain the philosophy under lying what I beleive the issue was with the original post. In tribal wars terms the ability to time precise attacks has been one of the easiest, if not the easiest, way that people show their "skill" within the game. People have spent years and developed so many methods to help with timing, comparable to practice in a common sport. This kind of ability to develop as a player and get better is healthy for the game, especially when its something like timing where ever the best of us can't get it perfect everytime. It both presents an opportunity to "out play" an opponent as well as giving every player something they can always improve on, or at least improve consistency.

Instead of the previous suggestion which would not only dull competition, but make many of the most knowledgeable players leave for good we need to find a way to reduce the information gap, while maintaining the skill gap. The previous posters were completly correct when they talked about the difficulty of learning the game as a noob and I don't think any of us would have without the older players who took us under their wings. Now for some of my ideas of places where we can limit the "information gap" while maintaining the ability to compete with "skill".

Snipe List Calculator
Everyone knows it is a pain to make the classic "snipe lists" of attempts and when to launch. This has been traditionally remedied in the past with 3rd party scripts. While many players (including myself) still prefer the older snipe script look, new tools like ez-snipe are unarguably more intuitive for newer players.
I suggest some BUILT IN feature that worked similar to easy snipe where you could simply check incomings and get a list of attempts to snipe the trains. This would be extremely noob friendly and could probably be tied in with a quest to snipe a train from a barb or something, or atleast to simply land a support/attack command on a barbarian within a given MS range. Anything that let the new players get a sense of "practice". Bonus points if this worked on mobile app, where it would probably even get big use from the veterans.
There is no reason to remove or disallow the current third party solutions in my opinion, but an official tribal wars sponsored one would make it much clearer for new players without needing a third party providing them these tools.

Problem 2: Lack of Clarity on Timing/Other Things
Tribalwars has a unique sense of the game in my opinion because early game and late game almost feel like 2 completely different experiences. While early game is all about efficiency, luck, etc. Late game becomes much more about the long term strategies of attacking and defending rather then smart launch times, or effcient farming to build a superior army. This also contributes to making it extremly difficult to distinguish the "good" players from the "bad". Because instead of finite high impact decisions, the thing that distinguishes the truly skilled lies in the every day decisions they make that relate to their overarching strategy. How do they decide off/def ratio? Where do they attack? How do they attack? And these skills are not something newer players can pickup quickly, but we should do all we can to give them the chance to start building the logical foundations of defending.

Attack Screen MS Timer
Another third-party solution that already exists but could be implemented to help newer players would be something showing a ms counter on the attack confirmation screen. The MS could be physically added to the page, but if that was too resource intensive I think a simple circle that spun every second like the other current popular extension would make the timing process much more intuitive to new players. This idea follows the same idea that we should offer tools to the newer players to help enable them to improve skill, not simply make a bot do it for them. Seeing this timer also logically helps them began understanding the intriciies of timing exacts and shows them this is a skill they'll be expected to learn/improve at to get better (as our community has all shown the last 24 hrs is something they believe)

Defense/Account Advisor
Similar to what able said earlier which I think is a great idea even for the main game but at least here. Have some kind of "suggestion" or "ask me" to help defending. It doesn't need to be perfect for every scenario, because part of the "skill" mentioned earlier is finding those nuanced methods of defending not everyone might see as viable at first glance (looking at you swedish lc stackers). However something that could simply calculate out "hey <player> this red incoming will clear the amount of troops in your village certainly. You should either dodge or request extra support". or maybe some kind of marker with a "!" denoting defense on low wall. The exact scenarios are endless you could create but I think something like this would be great for this new casual server, and maybe even the main game. As an experienced player who would never almost benefit from it, I would still be fine to see new players get this option. Especially if our favorite "auto sniper" is the alternative.

This idea could also be expanded to some kind of simple dashboard (seriously devs it takes 1 day to design a simple dashboard I could do it myself). It could show certain account status notifications like "off heavy" "lots of catted farms" "x nobles incoming" "imbalanced stacks" "lots of villages not pop maxed with out recruitment" whatever things you wanted to check. But it could give a player a better look at what areas their account seems to be not performing atleast at a baseline level. This of course would be nonbinding in game and either disable-able or be ignored by veterans who have reasons behind what they're doing.

Problem 3: Hard to get Practice without Huge Initial Time Investment

Casual World Rework?

As it it exists now to me it seems casual worlds are essentially a place no one cares about. People login one a week to noble some barbs or do whatever and no one really cares about the world in the long term. We saw this during Cas1 where the world had to be extended multiple times and coin costs lowered tons just to end because so few were even active enough.

Why not just rework this idea to something more sandboxy, and with a tutorial vibe. Instead of simply not being allowed to attack smaller players (which teaches them nothing) I think there should be 2 main objectives. 1. Ability to practice fighting without major losses or time investment and 2. Ample learning opportunities

1. To reduce the impact of just being destroyed while offline casual worlds should have some sort of setting like "sleep mode" where you could set a length of times (I wouldn't even mind 12-18 hours at startup, scaling downward as world progressed). I think speed should also be heavily increased and/or costs down. This should be something people can jump into quickly get going and even if they get wiped out not have lost a huge amount of time. These don't need to be longer drawn out worlds, but something like a noob friendly HP round. These increased protection settings would also help keep out a**holes who just wanna join to pub stomp. Profile badges could maybe even be removed for future ones to help counteract that kind of "smurfing". I believe if these worlds were made as a mandatory "tutorial" for new players or at least heavily encouraged it would improve new player experience a lot. They could even consider starting players at 1 or ever 2-3 max villages to just reduce that early game time and propel them to a point they can learn real skills. Moral could also be exxagerated here to help keep the casual vibe, but I think removing players from being attacked by someone bigger is actually inhibiting their learning rather than helping it. Giving them the ability to try to defend but with a huge statistical crutch might be a good way to learn also.

Another idea I had for this would be a permanent watchtower-like effect where all attacks are revealed immediately as they are sent. Again this would be seen as "noob friendly" on a current server, but serves well along with the purpose of teaching people how to defend in certain situations.

2. This ties back into the defense/account advisor i mentioned above. I think randomizing tribes on causal worlds might also help with this solution. If people couldn't even pick their own tribes their would be a lot less incentive for players to come "pub stomp" the world. However, if this was seen as too much regulation they could atleast force randomize start locations without ability for large groups of friends to spawn together. The focus of this would be for players of varying experience to hopefully end up together, however this idea seems admittedly far fetched even to me and I beleive just bullet 1) alone would be a huge step to helping teach new players. This was just the only solution I could think of to help pair up players of more experience then the ones with less instead of the current pre made culture where most tribes will recruit their favorite few noobs they encounter throughout the world (or more likely the ones who for whatever reason have something to offer even if they dont know it yet) and simply wiping out the rest.










 

divinewind101

Active Member
a couple of ways to make defending easier without this broken auto snipe,

1: buff defensive units, or even create new ones; as anyone with experience knows, 1 full DV will kill a nuke no problem, assuming the build isnt cancer, but this is counterbalanced by the fact that offense rebuilds much quicker. to make defending more viable and easy you could attack this from multiple angles.
you could buff the base stats of defensive troops to make it more viable to snipe with less troops, therefore making sniping eminently more viable for smaller players dealing with full offensive comps coming their way, this would also preserve the skill element in sniping as even if theyre stronger they will do you no good if you cant hit it.
you could separate troops into more divisions, for example have spears and swords that recruit very quickly but are less effective than they are in the current game, and then have pikemen and shieldbearers, which would serve as a far more formidable defense at the expense of recruiting time, this would add a layer of strategy to building defense at every level of the game, for this to be done in a comprehensive way i feel it should also be done to offensive troops, although perhaps not in such a total overhaul world.

2. the repeatable quest where barbs send attacks at you as mentioned in the update feedback post is an excellent idea, thats how i would practise sniping once i got to a decent size on a world, i would literally send fake trains at myself and try and snipe them. having this feature available to any and all would not only let new players learn such an integral part of defending in this game but help intermediate and even top tier players improve upon their existing skills.

3. Inno should look at the most commonly used approved scripts in use by the best of the best, scripts such as LA Enhancer and Distance Calculator, and add these into the game as standard, scripts are 100% one aspect in which a skill gap exists, a person farming without LA Enhancer is very rarely going to outfarm someone with it, and having the ability to simply know when you need to send a snipe without the use of a script would level the playing field considerably. this wouldnt affect the skill aspect or the satisfaction of hitting a snipe for the players already used to it, but it would considerably help new players adapt to sniping trains, in particular solo mobile players as scripts can only be added via browser if im not mistaken.

4. a more comprehensive tutorial suite should be made available. this could be done in many ways but a couple stand out to me.
make becoming a mentor a pp rewardable thing: for example when mentoring a player milestones for the newb should be inplace, for which both the mentor and mentee recieve a modest amount of pp for their time/success. this game has become pp reliant in many ways and not knowing how to effectively use is can be a serious disadvantage in a mid/late game fight.
videos detailing aspects of the game should be commissioned and promoted to new players, there is already an excellent suite of videos covering most of the basics on youtube by marshyyy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC384iRheVZkcJvoPVjnIx8g that does a fantastic job of walking people through the basics of what it takes to play at a reasonably high level. whether inno wished to either promote these videos or commission their own, either would be acceptable, but i feel that at the moment those that are new to the game will first experience sniping when they are either sniped or happen to be told about it by a more experienced player.

all of these ideas could potentially help with the balance of the game rather than buff defending to a ridiculous degree and could even help raise the bar of competition, there is one other idea that would vastly improve the game for new players however and this has to do with tribe member limits. one thing that has always bothered me is that every world give or take is won by a premade of friends from many worlds back, and the chances of getting into a tribe like this are slim to none. inno could institute a policy whereby tribes are set at say a 40 member limit for example, 30 of these slots may be filled by the premade, however the remaining ten must be filled by players with less than 3 worlds played, or some other such restriction, this would give new players not only a great learning experience and a chance to join a tight knit group of players but also give them a taste of playing the game at the highest level, something i feel is sorely lacking for new players and a large part in the reducing playerbase. i will admit that balancing both this and the first suggestion i have put forward would be difficult, but if regular community feedback is looked for at each stage of these ideas development i am sure we could reach a solution that satisfied both new players and the premade elites.
 

nightblade.greyswandir

Contributing Poster
Why did you used words support delay and make support time set tool? If you actually made support delay maybe it could work.
Main requirement is: snipe is one time option per troop type per village.

So you have 3 noble trians incoming on 3 of your villages, and you like to snipe it, one of these is 4 attacks from 4 different villages incoming in same second. But you will be in car on your way to school/work when you need to send it... ouch...

You turn on offset time pop up calculator, and check how much you have to offset your attacks if you send them in "time/date" but to arrive on attack time, then in snipe option you the select village where you like to send troops to, and select attack you want to aim for (so you can't try it twice as snipe option will be locked from that moment on for that attack)... then you add offset time and you can see the same timer (with time that is offset, showing arrival time of your troops) as you can see now in send attack/support that help you aim to ms, then you send...
Now snipe tool have to be same like sending support pop up window so same way of sending should be applied.
Key is that same troops can't be send any more to arrive before that attack hit, so you can't try to snipe and then stack when not suceful in sniping. So once you use offset for one type of troops for one village any support with that troop type will arrive after that attack hit.

This should not impact good players at all if it is done right, as skills top player has also include when to time so you catch your opponent during sleep, from where, how to hide trains etc...
 

Kate 2

Member
I have often thought that more could be done with the mentoring system to help engage new players. And the introduction of extended bp or the attack ratio enforcement on some new servers through an extended start-up period could apply to all worlds for apprentices. New players often start late on a server because they don’t know when a world is about to begin. A little late is good for them, because they do better on the rim, but too late into a new server is hard, so extending bp for late starts might help.

Maybe give apprentices slightly more rewards:
- More free premium awards as part of the quest system. Or for successfully finishing the apprenticeship.
- A good coin flag for actually building an academy, and before they mint their first coin.
- A 1:5 or other small attack ratio for apprentices, extending past graduation for 15 or 30 days?
- Also some practice quest to time a defence?

Adding a basic “snipe script functionality to the main game would help beginners. Some extension of the request troops screen in the rally point. This would not change the game substantially for more experienced players.

Personally, I hate watchtower worlds and avoid them. So giving more information about attacks takes a lot of fun away for more experienced players. I also hate the limited fakes servers, but agree that defending is a major time sink, and is often how accounts are overwhelmed if they can’t get enough 24 hour coverage. It can be exhausting. New players are often solo and in small ineffective tribes, where they can’t get help if under attack. Morale helps a bit, but not really enough.
 

Seven Devils

Non-stop Poster
I don't know, seems like an interesting idea. I mean, yeah, you would have to put some nukes behind all trains to crush all the defence at 0 walls, but all in all, this could be something new and exciting. The pro's are already sniping you to bits, won't be much of a diffrence here now will it?

There is ALWAYS going to be a skilldiffrence between new and old players, removing the sniping issues could be a good way to test the waters. Just as we implemented watchtowers, this helped the pro's more than the newbs, right? But most people are ok with this now. The paladin system is also a way to improve the pro players more than the newbs.

You would simply just have to send from diffrent villas to 'scare' your opponent now, i don't see the big issue everyone else seems to see. Idk, i think we should try this on a world and see how it works out. Maybe add the attack option to be timed as well as you like 5 min within send time. Going to be rather amusing to see all trains land on same ms, but you did have to 'not allow' the same ms for attackers i suppose
 

SergeantCrunsh

Non-stop Poster
I don't know, seems like an interesting idea. I mean, yeah, you would have to put some nukes behind all trains to crush all the defence at 0 walls, but all in all, this could be something new and exciting. The pro's are already sniping you to bits, won't be much of a diffrence here now will it?

There is ALWAYS going to be a skilldiffrence between new and old players, removing the sniping issues could be a good way to test the waters. Just as we implemented watchtowers, this helped the pro's more than the newbs, right? But most people are ok with this now. The paladin system is also a way to improve the pro players more than the newbs.

You would simply just have to send from diffrent villas to 'scare' your opponent now, i don't see the big issue everyone else seems to see. Idk, i think we should try this on a world and see how it works out. Maybe add the attack option to be timed as well as you like 5 min within send time. Going to be rather amusing to see all trains land on same ms, but you did have to 'not allow' the same ms for attackers i suppose
That’s fine we even said it could be something tested on worlds, the major backlash came because it would have been applied to all worlds even those currently in motion and would drastically change everything on worlds we have already put months into and wouldn’t have with this new feature.

If you wanna test it on a new world great, but don’t shove it down everyone’s throats all at once.
 

GeeGee

Member
if its just about newbies not knowing how to calc when an attack would be back to backtime it .... just add that info to the tag automatically when an attack would land back home and when the newbie would have to launch his own attack to backtime it ... everyone has scripts to calc it anyways (if u mistag it will give u wrong time based on the other speed).
same with def .... have an in game calc thingy where people can add two coords (or select an incoming and select a few own villages that they want to snipe from) and a (prefered) landtime for the snipe (def troops) .... again anyone is able to find out the launch times with a script or even manually already anyways ... why not just give the info in game.

this way u can make it easier by giving the launch times to people that dont know basic math and dont know that there are scripts to calc this for them .... however they would still have to be behind the pc/laptop/mobile themselves to actually do the launch themselves and most of all ... How close u actually land that support/snipe/antisnipe/cancel snipe/barb snipe/backtime etc still depends on the individual player's accuracy (skill) (and his/her internet connection) instead of completely automating the thing and just turning the game into a full blown "who can buy the most pp" competition.