Apoc-C : I salute you!!!

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DeletedUser

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Your Ops against Apoc in the south were clearly successful. I cannot dispute that. But you know as well as I that Apoc-R was not the strongest of the Apoc tribes (although a number of its players are now important members of the Apoc team). Apoc-W had one or two useful barons but its leadership was generally poor. However... they carried the Apoc flag and so we can't offer any excuses. You did well.

Substantial presence in 22 or 23 Ks? I'd love to know your definition of substantial! I don't have a substantial presence in that many and I am bigger than you ever were and would claim to be more strategically spread!

P.S. I am not trying to imply that you and many of your confederates were not good players. I just object to your continuing assertions that Apoc lacked any such players.

It means I didn't have just 1 village and had a whole cluster - enough to cause trouble for my neighbours :) I was number 1 in K58 and top 10 in Ks such as k59, K57, K67, k77. I had over 1000 villages and only half were in K58.

I didn't attack any Apoc-R players, I hit players in -F, -D, -N and -W but defended against every single Apoc tribe :) You may be surprised to know that a lot of the players that went to TF were some of your best, apart from some of your top ranked players in -D. Apart from the obvious ones in your camp, I would have loved to play alongside people like Willmn, Cal-, Rattle, Lackman, etc. I even had some fun with SeanBarry when he was sitting an account I was taking out :)

I have never said you lack good players. In fact, this is what I said last year:

Your Favourite Tribe:
1- Obviously my own :)
2- The BA of old.. the only tribe that earned my respect early on via CottenClown.

Least Liked Tribe:
1- I do not dislike Apoc per se but I do not like the UA concept at all. The core players in Apoc are awesome.. it's just a shame they feel they have to be surrounded by a massive meatshield.

Best Leader
1- All the top tribes left have a decent leadership team with one particular player being the stand out. For example, APOC has Zain with players such as Zurtle, Masterfool, Wolfhunt & Andrew backing him up.

That was my opinion back then and it has never changed.
 

DeletedUser

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It means I didn't have just 1 village and had a whole cluster - enough to cause trouble for my neighbours :) I was number 1 in K58 and top 10 in Ks such as k59, K57, K67, k77. I had over 1000 villages and only half were in K58.
I would argue that one village causes trouble, which is why we've never allowed any of your death stars to exist, regardless of the cost in nukes. Personally I regard 50 vills as substantial (as I think I said in my bio).
You may be surprised to know that a lot of the players that went to TF were some of your best, apart from some of your top ranked players in -D. Apart from the obvious ones in your camp, I would have loved to play alongside people like Willmn, Cal-, Rattle, Lackman, etc. I even had some fun with SeanBarry when he was sitting an account I was taking out :)
TF was essentially a dug up version of a decomposing Apoc-W so players didn't so much as go to TF as return to it. Of the players I would have loved to have retained Willmn. He was a good player and a good Ops guy. I can only comment on my own experience and in that experience Cal- was poor. She knew how to launch a few fakes but didn't have enough "craft" to back it up. I never worked with/against Rattle but I can accept he could have been a useful player even if he was an abysmal leader. Lackmanblue joined RKN from Legion and then moved to Apoc. I'm not aware of him ever being in TF (I'd have to check).
 
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DeletedUser

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I'm guessing that Cal- was over TW by the time she launched her attacks at you as they deleted soon after. She was quite aggressive against us in the south though. Rattle may have seemed to be a bad leader in your view but he did have loyalty and respect from his members/friends. Like everyone else, you get to see more of the real person once you get to know them.

Lackman was not in TF, I just crossed paths with him in both k55 and k67 and found him to be a very nice guy. Couldn't resist giving him a mention. I also loved Rashelle - she was so cool.
 

DeletedUser

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Rattle may have seemed to be a bad leader in your view but he did have loyalty and respect from his members/friends.
I thought about this when I wrote my post and I was thinking about being a leader v manager. Rattle clearly generated loyalty but loyalty cannot be the only criteria that defines good leadership. I don't fully understand how he did this though I suspect that by keeping Apoc-W just a little apart from the rest of Apoc that he used fear, uncertainty and doubt to reinforce his own position. This FUD was reinforced through his on-going border disputes with Apoc-N.

The nearest parallel I can draw is with Robert Mugabe who started off as a revolutionary and, through his leadership of the independence movement (from Britain), he generated strong loyalty amongst his followers. Unfortunately he started to confuse his belief that he knEw what was best for his people with his own need for power. He tried to use old tensions with the white population and the UK, combined with strong-arm tactics against all desenters, to maintain his grip on power. In the end he destroyed his own country.

The analagy may be tenuous but the outcome was essentially the same (if only Mugabe would delete!)
 

DeletedUser

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I thought about this when I wrote my post and I was thinking about being a leader v manager. Rattle clearly generated loyalty but loyalty cannot be the only criteria that defines good leadership. I don't fully understand how he did this though I suspect that by keeping Apoc-W just a little apart from the rest of Apoc that he used fear, uncertainty and doubt to reinforce his own position. This FUD was reinforced through his on-going border disputes with Apoc-N.

The nearest parallel I can draw is with Robert Mugabe who started off as a revolutionary and, through his leadership of the independence movement (from Britain), he generated strong loyalty amongst his followers. Unfortunately he started to confuse his belief that he knEw what was best for his people with his own need for power. He tried to use old tensions with the white population and the UK, combined with strong-arm tactics against all desenters, to maintain his grip on power. In the end he destroyed his own country.

The analagy may be tenuous but the outcome was essentially the same (if only Mugabe would delete!)

You have Rattle wrong. This is just a game; nobody is going to follow a leader of a minority group out of fear. They are more likely to go to a bigger and safer tribe (safety in numbers) - hence your large alliance.

I got to know rattle in the end and found him to be a very nice person. Yes, he was a feisty personality but hey, we are not all the same. From what I got to know about him, he gained loyalty from his tribe because he was a good friend to them and was fun to have on your team. The whole reason they left Apoc in the end was because their good friend was dismissed. They stuck by their friend even though there were consequences for their actions.

As for the issues with -N, that was actually fueled by wolfhunt who was making deals and promises with everyone but never followed through on any. In this case, he was encouraging Rattle to fight -N, coz Wolf apparently despised socolofi, and promised him that Apoc would back him up when -W/TF went to war with -N. We all know that that never happened. You can't put sole blame on rattle for some of the decisions he made - there was a lot of manipulation going on that not everyone was privy to.

PS You could always offer to recruit Mugabe ;)
 

DeletedUser

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It is just a game but there are plenty of players that have used intimidation (explicit or implicit) to get other players to fall into line. AA used to pride himself on his ability to intimidate smaller players. AA even tried it on me and I was substantially larger (that was probably the worst mistake of his game-life). Of Apoc-W/TF Rattle and Cal were amongst the largest players and were supported by some of the largest and most competent (e.g. Willmn). They could have easily pressed weaker players into service.

I can't (and won't) comment on Rattle or Cal- outside the context of the game. I am talking about their game personas. Their game personas were extremely volatile which led to on-going disputes during their reign.

I don't recall the reason why TT was booted. But I do recall that Rattle and Cal took advantage of player loyalty to establish TF and then skipped town without even putting up a fight. If they had been truly loyal they would have been the last to jump ship.

As for being fueled by Wolfhunt1 I nearly LOL'd. Clearly Wolfhunt1 is a machiavellian mastermind and socolofi and rattle and Cal are his mere pawns. None have sufficient personality to resist his machinations. Wolfhunt1 is a bright guy and can be very persuasive but I think his skills fall short of mind control and personality domination!

Bottom line: Rattle made his decisions. If anyone else influenced/directed him to the extent that you suggest then my criticism of him being a poor leader is proven.

P.S. I suspect many of the TF players actually followed Willmn rather than Rattle or Cal-. Willmn followed Rattle and Cal-.
 
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DeletedUser

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I can't speak for them directly, I was merely providing my insight on them from the time I got to know them some. I only know the reason why TF was created but I don't know the person whom they all followed as I never asked them all. Willmn is a good guy so you may be right, who knows.
 

DeletedUser63943

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How bout U all SHUT UP and leave this topic for what it was ment for, a farewell to the most active tribe that world 18 has maybe ever had, most active, most player nobling, had some of the top attacking players on this world.

We in -C loved -C and we knew we were up there with the best.

So give some respect
 
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DeletedUser

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How bout U all SHUT UP and leave this topic for what it was ment for, a farewell to the most active tribe that world 18 has maybe ever had, most active, most player nobling, had some of the top attacking players on this world.

We in -C loved -C and we knew we were up there with the best.

So give some respect

That was pretty funny. Apart from your top 15, Apoc-C was the weakest tribe in the family outside of Apoc-N. TW stats was awesome with showing a tribe's inactivity. Your leaders would have known too.
 
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DeletedUser

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DeletedUser

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You clearly don't understand the definition! I suspect you are applying the north American definition and didn't get my translation.

A holiday (in my part of the world) is a vacation. It isn't a public/bank holiday. People book their vacations/holidays when they want to. In Europe July/August are the months when most people take their holidays. In some countries (particularly in southern Europe) that can mean the country effectively shuts down for a month.

The last time I checked there was no requirement for folks to inform you of their holiday plans so why would you know? :)
 

DeletedUser

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You clearly don't understand the definition! I suspect you are applying the north American definition and didn't get my translation.

A holiday (in my part of the world) is a vacation. It isn't a public/bank holiday. People book their vacations/holidays when they want to. In Europe July/August are the months when most people take their holidays. In some countries (particularly in southern Europe) that can mean the country effectively shuts down for a month.

The last time I checked there was no requirement for folks to inform you of their holiday plans so why would you know? :)

Holidays for us are national ones like Christmas. There are no holidays for us in August and not many go anywhere seeing as it is winter right now.
 

DeletedUser

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On-topic:

Apoc-C.jpg
 
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