Best Offensive and Defensive Unit Composition, what do you think?

DeletedUser

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Hello World 47, I'm an old-school World 2 player so I am not as savvy as to the best unit composition for offensive and defensive units on this world.

My small analysis of best attacking and defending unit composition will take into consideration: cost, time spent producing the units and effectiveness at either defending or attacking.

First I would like to get out of the way that I do not believe that Heavy Cavalry, neither Catapults are required for any defensive or offensive unit composition. If one were to play around with the simulator you can see that 20,000 population worth of catapults or heavy cavalry is extremely ineffective at defending (heavy cavalry is chiefly to be used when defense is needed quickly). I use a population of 20,000 instead of 24,000 because about 4000 worth of units is in buildings or other things that are neither attacking or defending units.

Please note that I do not take into consideration the paladin neither his weapons because late game he becomes less relevant.

Okay so here it goes. Using population cap of 20,000 I believe that:


Offensive Composition:

9700 Axes
1700 Light Cavalry
400 Mounted Archers
300 Rams


Defensive Composition:

8000 Spears
8000 Swords
4000 Archers
(level 20 wall obviously)

This would be my recommendation, I am sure there are better unit mixes out there feel free to post your own.

I know I could be looking on other worlds for a forum similar to this one but I wanted to know the meta of this world.

-Joe
 

DeletedUser81829

Guest
Just a few thoughts...

Like most things in this game, the best build is dependent on the situation.

If you have all the time in the world, then build an all axe nuke for offense (with rams too of course) and something like 5k spears, 16k archers on D. If you like to send out nukes as soon as they're built then you probably won't want to wait for those extra axes to build, so just keep axes and LC queued until your vill gets full. 300-400 MA definitely helps if the D has a bunch of archers. Any full nukes sitting around you can kill off some cav and build more axes...

If your nuke is going to clear the target in one hit, then more than 213 rams makes no difference at all, but against a stacked vill then having more rams takes the wall down more. Rams build fast and any extra are always handy to throw around for fakes, so around 300 is good.

The strongest D to build in a short amount of time is still sp/HC, throw in some archers to beef it up and it doesn't add too much to the build time. If you have a full D vill, kill off some spears to make room for more archers.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
While I agree to a spear/HC defense for really quick build times, it's a little lackluster in terms of efficiency.
 

Rudegar

Guest
i think it really depends on playing style, and whilst not technically a strong D, spear/ H cav or spear/ archer/ h cav their advantage comes from faster build times, and greater mobility allowing more troops to be stacked in 1 place at 1 time to make up for their stat wise, short comings, personally this is more of an advantage than the quick build factor.

personally even in a spear/ h cav build village id still include a token number of swords in order to be able to adjust timings when sniping
 

DeletedUser81829

Guest
The word "efficiency" to me means using your village and res to produce the most effective offense/defense in a given amount of time, so using the rax and stable to produce troops at the same time is far more efficient than only using the rax.

True, you could say it's inefficient building HC if you end up having to kill them off to make room for more foot troops.

Personally I go for somewhere around 6k spears, 3k archers and 2k HC plus a token amount of swords to give more options for sniping and rams for fakes.

Efficiency also comes into use of the troops, with HC you can stack from more villages in any given amount of time so the losses will be less...


Edit: Obviously I got distracted for longer than I thought lol..

@ Rudegar, great minds...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
My god how much time would it take to build 8000 SP, SW, and 4000 ARCH?
 

DeletedUser61336

Guest
Dreamerboy67 said:
My god how much time would it take to build 8000 SP, SW, and 4000 ARCH?
Click to expand...

Too much time for me to deal with. :/

Anywho, as already stated, it all depends on how you play, I personally love cukes(cat nukes) and sp/HC D. But that's me.
And of course, if you DO have the time for it, it's probably wise to build what I have quoted, 8k/8k/4k, gives quite a good balance, and is stronger. And of course, it does depend on how your enemy plays as well, due to how the troops interact(which kills another better, etc.).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Note that HC is good for sniping as it is fast... I prefer SP/HC and several "Wall Busters" and Cat Nukes. Another D would be HC, and ARCH but just 1-2k SP.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Also depends on you are calculating with a full village or not. as in.. do you HAVE the time to build a full village of D or are you under attack.

Sp/HC dont give you as good a D, as Arch/HC if you are constantly rebuilding. make a calc of what the D will be after say.. 24 or 48 hours. compared with the fact that not a lot of players have heavy MA nukes.

if you have time, the best D is still a mix of sp, sw and ar, without cats and HC. (unless you catstack with pally)
it´s not as mobile though, and calls for a tighter/larger cluster strat AND you have the given time to build it.

but.. when that is said.. we havn´t even started to look at other aspect as coins/res.
slower build, means you are slowing your coinproduction, wich again means, fewer villages.

so what you also have to consider is this:
how many extra villages can I build with the coins made from full D vills. and how many extra troops will this give me in the same time/longer run and will this make up for the weaker D in the beginning?

I say it´s a matter of playstyle and patience.
if you get irritated over the time it takes to build your troops, then find a faster build, no matter how badthe "average D" will be! EOD!

it´s a gme, if you get bored waiting for your troops to build, you end up quitting the game, so what´s the use of a "perfect D"??
 
Bloodhood

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Everyone always understates archers. Quick as spears, and if you weight in the underuse of MA, most likely the best defence unit.
 

DeletedUser

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Bloodhood said:
Everyone always understates archers. Quick as spears, and if you weight in the underuse of MA, most likely the best defence unit.
Click to expand...

MA aren't all that underused. You just don't need a lot of them. The higher the ration of archers to the rest of the defense, the more impact MA, even in small numbers, has.

However, I do agree with building archers. I love them.
 
Bloodhood

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pyker42 said:
MA aren't all that underused. You just don't need a lot of them. The higher the ration of archers to the rest of the defense, the more impact MA, even in small numbers, has.

However, I do agree with building archers. I love them.
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Statistics just for this world currently show more than ten times more LC than MA. On other wrolds that figure is somewhere between 8-10 usually.
 

DeletedUser

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Bloodhood said:
Statistics just for this world currently show more than ten times more LC than MA. On other wrolds that figure is somewhere between 8-10 usually.
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And that is not MA being underused. My normal nuke build will have less than one tenth the amount of MA as LC. You don't need more than that, really, unless you are building a pure MA build.

Don't forget that their per pop space attack rating is less than that of a sword or HC. Including too many reduces the effectiveness of a nuke. You want to include just enough to take an edge off of those archers.
 

DeletedUser19130

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pyker42 said:
And that is not MA being underused. My normal nuke build will have less than one tenth the amount of MA as LC. You don't need more than that, really, unless you are building a pure MA build.

Don't forget that their per pop space attack rating is less than that of a sword or HC. Including too many reduces the effectiveness of a nuke. You want to include just enough to take an edge off of those archers.
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Couldn't have said it better myself pyker.

Actually, I don't use much, if any, MAs. Unless you are going up against a lot of archers, and let's face it a lot of players don't build archers because they take too much time, you don't need them.

Now the fastest/most efficient defense is a SP/HC/Archer build. It's only 18 hours slower then the HC/SP defense but nearly 5 times more effective.

Offense would be 3200 LC, about 6k axe, and 230 Rams. Always have a few stack busting nukes and some cat nukes around as well.
 

DeletedUser

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http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=137817

Here are 16 pages of what I would consider to be the best nuke discussion I have read if you care to trudge through it to find your own style. This is where I got my nuke builds. Not trying to take away from this thread, but it contains a lot of great tested nuke strategies for every possible situation.

If you don't care to look through it, here are some posts I would highlight (not all are about nuke counts, some are about village builds):
 

DeletedUser

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Galaxy65 said:
It is a basic build for someone not on the front lines who has defense to throw around and has plenty of time to stack. Swords are practically useless to send for quick support.
So someone near/on the front lines would want to use something like Openeye's HC/Cat strategy, because of the quick build time and the fast support speeds. I usually only include 5 swords in my defensive villages, mainly for sending support fakes.
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It's a trade off. Swords are great for prepared front lines. You send them first before attacking. They provide a stronger defense for less population space than HC.

For on the spot support, swords can still be useful, but not as useful as HC. In a non-15 tech world there is no excuse not to use both swords and HC.
 

DeletedUser

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well i find 1 spear is really good agasint 1 sw so my def is 1 sp
my off is about 1 axes 1 lc 1 ram i find it give good farm results
 

DeletedUser

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pyker42 said:
It's a trade off. Swords are great for prepared front lines. You send them first before attacking. They provide a stronger defense for less population space than HC.

For on the spot support, swords can still be useful, but not as useful as HC. In a non-15 tech world there is no excuse not to use both swords and HC.
Click to expand...

Thats what i was getting at, i'm on a frontline with about 100 villages, and have 600 other defence villages in safe zones.
I use 4800 sp/sw/ar 1k heavy cav to stack.
when i need very fast support i have a few dozen vils on the frontline, when i need just normal support to move on the frontlines i have 7k sp/arc and 1k heavy cav.
 

DeletedUser

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joemama8630 said:
While I agree to a spear/HC defense for really quick build times, it's a little lackluster in terms of efficiency.
Click to expand...

I like the :spear:, :swordsman:, and :heavycavalry: build.

Depending on what you build exactly... and leaving enough room for some scouts and :lightcavalry: to do the farming.

That is if you want defense as well... and if you get Baptiste's Banner which "increases the offensive fighting power of your heavy cavalry by 30% and their defensive fighting power by 20%" then you can't go wrong.

Unless you get sat down by a ginormous tribe like T.E.C, Decide, or Skittl... :/

Then idk what to tell you.
 
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