Clean Plate Club

cececole

Non-stop Poster


DECIDE is still hungry.

Some may have thought that DECIDE had eaten enough ~B~ to give us all rather bad intestinal distress (dairyboy was a bit gassy). Alas! Nay. We are still hungry for our food. Though we fought them from GREEN to PLAGUE to ~B~ --- still their remnants remain sullying our Ks. Now is the time to properly finish our dinner. Nom, nom, nom. Time to eat our tasty food. So, we will be cleaning out all the ex-~B~ players in our Ks.

Sadly, some of our refugees have tried to hide from us. We asked RAM not to recruit these refugees and have repeatedly asked them to do the right thing and dismiss them. We have been distressed that friends would treat us this way, recruiting our food that live in our Ks. . But we again invite them to do the right thing and dismiss our refugees. DECIDE has no desire to attack anyone in RAM--so long as they don't get between us and our refugees.
 

calarasi.

Guest
It will be interesting to see if RAM&DRIFT suport lines can handle pressure from Phoenx&DECIDE nukes and for how long.
 

The Red Hot Chili Pepper

Still Going Strong
hmmm im still 50/50 on this issue.

I can see both sides of the story, however I will only post RAMS (perhaps a DECIDE player could give me their view?). Apologies in advance if any detail is incorrect. Feel free to correct me.

RAM side:

DECIDE requested we help them against ~B~ so that they could focus on THE.
RAM agrees to help its long time friend.
~B~ disbands, so technically, RAM should choose what to do with the spoils.
RAM chose to recruit (I think) 5 players, while the rest are to be eaten eventually.


There were many pros and cons regarding this choice.

Pros:
RAM were able to get good foot holds in K's 48, 38 and 37.
RAM will now be able to use those positions to move east to the rim and gain further territory without much hassle.

Cons:
RAM cut off their friend, DECIDEs, expansion to the east.
RAM recruited players known to have a bad history with DECIDE.

I don't think RAM made a poor or wrong decision, but they didn't make a really good decision either. RAM knew the risks they'd be taking by bringing those players into RAM but they took that risk. At the time, that was the decision voted for by the council. I know noobaxes was strongly against it as he is extremely loyal to the friendship he has built with DECIDE over the past year.

What I'm trying to get at is that it was an extremely difficult decision to make and some of us are still sitting on the fence about it. Its in the past now, the decision has been made and we're gonna stick by it. I believe the players you're after are capable of handling themselves and will put up a good fight should they deem it necessary.


DISCLAIMER: NOTHING I HAVE SAID IS A TRIBAL STATEMENT. THESE ARE MY OWN THOUGHTS
 
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r2d3

Contributing Poster
I always thought of Decide been a rather "sugar-sweet" tribe...

Still, "sugar-relations" can be risky in TW as it seems :

[spoil]

[/spoil]

robot out
 

The Red Hot Chili Pepper

Still Going Strong
DECIDE has never asked RAM to help against ~B~ ... This is a Lie.
bugga....... thats just what I've been lead to believe..... true or not. Well there goes my entire PnP defense to put RAM in a better light... so errrr.... good luck to my NE guys then lol

Well as long as they are a part of RAM, I will help defend them.
 

calarasi.

Guest
Thats why was a bad choice to recruit them.
Hate feelings are a powerfull engine in tw.
Stronger than desire to own some virtual villages.
 

Reaperofsouls27

Guest
DECIDE requested we help them against ~B~ so that they could focus on THE.
RAM agrees to help its long time friend.
~B~ disbands, so technically, RAM should choose what to do with the spoils.
In my opinion, your logic here is wrong. First of all, if RAM were asked to help, this would mean that DECIDE were already fighting ~B~, why else would they need help? If ~B~ then disband then this does not mean RAM gets to choose what to do with the "spoils" if you will. A mutual arrangement would need to be come to, otherwise relations would surely be soured, as has proven to be the case.

In any case, it is more likely that a deal was come to between certain players of ~B~ and RAM before the disbandment, ~B~ players were offered the safety of RAMfam in exchange for giving up the war.



On another aspect, I have always found this sort of war illogical. While I am in no way attempting to sway DECIDE to my opinion, and I'm sure most here realise that would be futile anyway, I do feel the need to give my thoughts on following refugees. I am wholly for following refugees to another tribe and claiming them as your own, however I find it strange to say that you will not engage original RAM players (non-refugees) while attacking their tribes mates, this clearly puts DECIDE at a disadvantage. Non-refugees in the area can simply support their tribes mates without fear of being attacked, meaning DECIDE will hit a brick wall, and due to their decision to not go after non-refugees, they may not gain ground.

Another issue is the fact that it is RAM leadership who made the decision to recruit these refugees, I cannot see how you could have any more issue with refugees than with the leadership that recruited them.

These are mostly the thoughts I have had about any war of this sort throughout tribal wars, it is not simply this particular encounter. Either way, I am not fussy, fighting is always fun, even if you are a spectator, good to see some more action in this world. Good luck to all.
 
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parmenion

Guest
Electric - I reckon DECIDE would have liked to have been included in the conversation if nothing else. "Spoils" aside, respect and friendship would generally dictate a heads up at the very least.
 

electricool

Guest
I agree. Recruiting players on their border that they have fought for a long time is wrong.

But going to war over it is a little bit excessive. RAM are in a sticky situation. They can't be seen to abandon their members, Pajuno would love that far too much as he's run out of things to be arrogant about. Maybe if RAM could turn back the clock they would have asked for DECIDE's opinion, but I think DECIDE should start eating what is available (THE and ~B~ minus the five players recruited), then discussing what isn't.
 

calarasi.

Guest
Would you do this? ignore the peoples you dislike till uknown moment when u will turn arround and spank them?
 

noobaxes

Guest
Electric - I reckon DECIDE would have liked to have been included in the conversation if nothing else. "Spoils" aside, respect and friendship would generally dictate a heads up at the very least.
What he says...

+ There was no other way out of this situation. Simply none. It's not like they didn't offer any way out but all we had to say is: NO. So we have to live with it.

I think they welcomed the help against -B- to give them a bit of breathing room. I don't think the help (requested directly, indirectly or not) is a valid reason to just cut any expansion possibilities of a tribe you want to be friendly with. It is directly a sign of agression. I don't think it would be smart for them to wait for Phoenx to be done with us (since it could last for quite a while).

To all our players that wanted to fight Decide, you got it now so show what you got.

Good luck.
 

jimmy.fitz

Non-stop Poster


DECIDE is still hungry.

Some may have thought that DECIDE had eaten enough ~B~ to give us all rather bad intestinal distress (dairyboy was a bit gassy). Alas! Nay. We are still hungry for our food. Though we fought them from GREEN to PLAGUE to ~B~ --- still their remnants remain sullying our Ks. Now is the time to properly finish our dinner. Nom, nom, nom. Time to eat our tasty food. So, we will be cleaning out all the ex-~B~ players in our Ks.

Sadly, some of our refugees have tried to hide from us. We asked RAM not to recruit these refugees and have repeatedly asked them to do the right thing and dismiss them. We have been distressed that friends would treat us this way, recruiting our food that live in our Ks. . But we again invite them to do the right thing and dismiss our refugees. DECIDE has no desire to attack anyone in RAM--so long as they don't get between us and our refugees.

what k's are you claiming? also what about the people that joined LEGION are they food too?
 
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Pajuno

Contributing Poster
I agree. Recruiting players on their border that they have fought for a long time is wrong.

But going to war over it is a little bit excessive. RAM are in a sticky situation. They can't be seen to abandon their members, Pajuno would love that far too much as he's run out of things to be arrogant about. Maybe if RAM could turn back the clock they would have asked for DECIDE's opinion, but I think DECIDE should start eating what is available (THE and ~B~ minus the five players recruited), then discussing what isn't.
why would you mention me? This is between Decide and Ram's leadership.


Lets look at it normally. ram got greedy. Ram thought to recruit, and laugh in Decides face.



As i have said many times over, if Karma and leadership had listened to Noobaxes, Ram would be a far more respectable tribe. But alas, the same tactics that have gotten ram to where it is, will be its down fall...


HOw many of those new recruits will take the path of CaptainG? How many will go the route of Mrsox? Lets just wait and see before i say more. But this is all Ram's doing.... I never contacted Decide to help with Ram, its not in Phoenx interest. (despite popular belief)


As it stands, ram has done enough to create enemies for themselves, and thus create helpful friends in my cause. I didnt recruit LoEN, Noobaxes provoked that one with his conversations with Msft. I didnt ask decide or bh for help, Ram recruited their food.


Now, about the refugees... you took a bunch of villages from some of ~B~"s front.. but at the same time, you already had talks with those backline new Ram recruits.... who sat there and let their leader get pounded into the dirt. (articbear). Dont act like you really fought this ~B~ war, we know that you talked doublej and lmawaii into sitting there while you drilled their front lines... Underhanded tactics at best. successful, of course... Same way you guys beat KBC, and the same ending as PMP war... Tsk tsk.


Anyways, im sure that now Decide/Phoenx will not merge into Ram, so what is gonna be your finishing move this time?



ps. i believe shipley told me yesterday i had no knowledge of what is going on in this world. Funny, i saw this one coming weeks ago. Did you shipley? (even tho you just got back last week)
 

cececole

Non-stop Poster
hmmm im still 50/50 on this issue.

I can see both sides of the story, however I will only post RAMS (perhaps a DECIDE player could give me their view?). Apologies in advance if any detail is incorrect. Feel free to correct me.

RAM side:

DECIDE requested we help them against ~B~ so that they could focus on THE.
RAM agrees to help its long time friend.
~B~ disbands, so technically, RAM should choose what to do with the spoils.
RAM chose to recruit (I think) 5 players, while the rest are to be eaten eventually.


There were many pros and cons regarding this choice.

Pros:
RAM were able to get good foot holds in K's 48, 38 and 37.
RAM will now be able to use those positions to move east to the rim and gain further territory without much hassle.

Cons:
RAM cut off their friend, DECIDEs, expansion to the east.
RAM recruited players known to have a bad history with DECIDE.

I don't think RAM made a poor or wrong decision, but they didn't make a really good decision either. RAM knew the risks they'd be taking by bringing those players into RAM but they took that risk. At the time, that was the decision voted for by the council. I know noobaxes was strongly against it as he is extremely loyal to the friendship he has built with DECIDE over the past year.

What I'm trying to get at is that it was an extremely difficult decision to make and some of us are still sitting on the fence about it. Its in the past now, the decision has been made and we're gonna stick by it. I believe the players you're after are capable of handling themselves and will put up a good fight should they deem it necessary.


DISCLAIMER: NOTHING I HAVE SAID IS A TRIBAL STATEMENT. THESE ARE MY OWN THOUGHTS

RCHP, I appreciate you being even-handed about this. Let me just throw in a few additional thoughts.

1. DECIDE never, ever asked for RAM help with ~B~. They came to us. Did we say to them, 'no, don't hit ~B~' ? Of course, we welcomed them hitting ~B~ (because ~B~ were annoying, as everyone admits). We already had a NAP with RAM and they had even asked for an alliance. But, we certainly did not ask for the help.

2. DECIDE would have been content for RAM to choose whatever spoils of ~B~ they wanted, as long as those players are not in DECIDE dominant Ks that are Ks away from RAM. Those ~B~ players were ones we had been fighting and were on our back doorstep and not near RAM. Your cons have stated well other aspects of this. There were numerous other ~B~ players they could have recruited, but choose not to.





3. Before, during and after these players were recruited, diplomatic talks were held between myself and karma then wittman then mark berns regarding these players refugee status and that DECIDE would not release them as refugees. We tried.

4. We are not declaring war on RAM. We are attacking our refugees, our food. If RAM stops inserting themselves between us and our food, we have no reason to attack any member of RAM. We are cleaning up our Ks, simple as that.
 
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