Communism

geheim05

Guest
Most people don't work hard just for their country, they want to have more than others. In communism everyone is equal and people do less. Also, the corporations are important for society(mispelled it, I think), they come up with a lot of great ideas, new medicines, etc. for money.

The world need capitalists(mispelled it too, I think).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Well I typed a pretty big bit about what I think about communism but then I screwed myself by doing something deleting my text irreversably. So I looked up something which I support for about 95% and I found it.

Click here for the whole text

"It is a noble concept, but it is one that can't work without a radical change in the human psyche, and I'm not sure I'd want to live in a world where people were, effectively, labotimized.

My personal belief is that communism, as it exists in the world today, and capitalism are the same thing. True communism doesn't, and can't, exist.

True communism depends on human nature being basically altruistic. For communism to work, the members of the society either need to be altruistic enough to want to work for the benefit of their neighbors, or they need to be forward thinking enough to see that what benefits the whole benefits themselves. They must be very far-sighted indeed, because large-scale social benefits tend to be more abstract in nature, and more difficult to recognise. In contrast, when you get your paycheck, you can buy your VCR, and there it is on your table. You can directly relate your work to the results.

If human nature is basically egoistic, then true communism doesn't work. If people are basically selfish, then they won't work for the common good, and there will be a tendancy to freeload or otherwise take advantage of the system. For communism to work in that case, you would you need to make sure that everybody was doing their fair share. You would need a system of "points", to make sure everybody is doing their part. People then work to earn points, so that they can justify receiving their share -- or else they don't get their share, or they go to jail, or they're kicked out of the community, or some other fascist reaction.

Capitalism is also a value-point system, with the "points" being capital. Therefore, communism is just a form of capitalism, only worse. It is worse because people can't get ahead -- they can still starve, but they can't get rich. I call this commu-capitalism, and it's poster child is the former Soviet Republic.

It is my belief that people aren't bad, but they are by nature selfish. I believe that people, like all animals, are organisms with an genetically programmed desire to prosper, reproduce, and expand. What we see as altruism in people is an evolved sense of mutual benefit -- I help you, you help me, we both prosper. Altruism goes out the window when the benefit is one-way. We cast off dead weight, except in certain situations. Yes, we have a social welfare system in the United States, albeit a very inadequate and ill one. I personally believe that the only reason why we have one at all is as a safety net. It is instructional to notice that we have to give tax breaks to intice charity. It is always the middle class -- the ones closer to that poverty level and more at risk of slipping into the poverty level -- who most support charity for charity's sake.

Ok, so by now you're sure I've got this black view of the human soul, but I don't think I do. I like people, and I think they are basically good, when it suits them. I think it is unfair to expect people to be willing to throw away their own health for the health of others -- it is nice and noble when it happens, but it isn't human nature. And this is why communism, as a pure concept, can't work, and always devolves into capitalism."


Btw, in the beginning the guy wrote: "I dislike communism."

I for one do not disslike Communism, only if the country I lived in would turn to Communism I would move as I don't see the nature of mankind etc. etc. etc. Read the text I coppied.
 

luciusklyne

Guest
luciusklyne. if you are so sure, first tell us, what is communism exactly?

I don't know exactly, but its the theroy that all people are equal, no matter what they work as, so everyone gets paid the same, businesses are controled by the goverment. Something like the anti-christ of capitalism. I strong dislike socialism too

It requires too much of people wanting to do good for each other and their goverment. Human greed and selfish-logic kills it

(Maybe I am bias because I live in a capiltalistic country. Or maybe it's because the socialist haven't been able to brain wash me XD.)
 
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skyline

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People in a communist government own no land and cannot make many crucial decisions. People all get paid the same which means that a harder working worker gets paid the same as a lazy one and as the worker sees that the quality of his products will decrease and there's probably many of those people in communist counties. Further more, leaders of communist countries are soon likely to become a dictator as the power in the country is so uneven. There's probably much more reasons but I was want to play Halo.
 

Vanoleth

Guest
People in a communist government own no land and cannot make many crucial decisions. People all get paid the same which means that a harder working worker gets paid the same as a lazy one and as the worker sees that the quality of his products will decrease and there's probably many of those people in communist counties. Further more, leaders of communist countries are soon likely to become a dictator as the power in the country is so uneven. There's probably much more reasons but I was want to play Halo.

You sound exactly like my English teacher, excluding the Halo part.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
hey, nazism offered a great way for the german people. at the expense of its neighbours and a whole lot of jews you may say, but the greater good must prevail, right? :icon_rolleyes:
communism is perfect in theory but seriously flawed when you try and apply it. there never was a true communist country and all those called communist were far from the ideal of love and togetherness. humans are corrupt.
you say no one came and proved it could be done. trust me, it's not only one man that has to do it (supposing there is someone who can stay clean when involved in leadership) but a whole bunch of them. the odds of finding lots of honest rulers to unite are very slim.
admit it, it's a nice dream but a dream and nothing more.

nazism was just a scam workers party, if they wouldve gone socialist they wouldve been better off...

anyways you said the odds of finding them all is slim, does that mean youd accept that if we found the leadership the world would be a NEAR perfect place.. the only road to peace is communism end of story ;)

Most people don't work hard just for their country, they want to have more than others. In communism everyone is equal and people do less. Also, the corporations are important for society(mispelled it, I think), they come up with a lot of great ideas, new medicines, etc. for money.

The world need capitalists(mispelled it too, I think).

good point but corporations shouldnt play a role in politics.. thats just corrupt

People in a communist government own no land and cannot make many crucial decisions. People all get paid the same which means that a harder working worker gets paid the same as a lazy one and as the worker sees that the quality of his products will decrease and there's probably many of those people in communist counties. Further more, leaders of communist countries are soon likely to become a dictator as the power in the country is so uneven. There's probably much more reasons but I was want to play Halo.

incorrect, luxuries are usually determined by their value to society, and it changes over time. this is a good thing really.

in this country there are lawyers that make tons of money, and doctors that can hardly make their car payments, bear that in mind.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
as for timo that pasted text did indeed make alot of sense it makes a good point, but it all hinges on human nature, whos to say that events of the future wont cause people to think a little different about the world around them. i know it seems impossible, unrealistic, like a day dream, but human beings have come along way, i mean a few hundred years ago we were killing each other over whether christians should be catholic or lutheran. i mean weve come a long way, weve become a much more civilized race. whos to say it is impossible for communism to one day be a logical practical system of governement. a world where we vote socialist or democrat, instead of republican?

i guess the question is what is human nature really? can it change? how would you define it? would it be defined as what humans tend to do, then why can human nature ever change. why disreguard a perfectly good political theory over human nature. i mean i could wake up every morning, and have toast for breakfast. and my family can look at me and know that every morning i have toast for breakfast (kind of stupid example but meh). because it is what ive always done, but one day what if i burn my finger on the toaster, or the toast somehow makes me sick, and i decide never to eat toast again, and i go through with it, then what?

i guess what im getting at is "human nature" some sort of unconscious instinct, that we will always have, or could it be more like a really bad habbit, that can change or be broken over time?

(im rambling lol i have no idea what i just typed so if it made no sense im sorry)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I don't know exactly, but its the theroy that all people are equal, no matter what they work as, so everyone gets paid the same, businesses are controled by the goverment. Something like the anti-christ of capitalism. I strong dislike socialism too

It requires too much of people wanting to do good for each other and their goverment. Human greed and selfish-logic kills it

(Maybe I am bias because I live in a capiltalistic country. Or maybe it's because the socialist haven't been able to brain wash me XD.)

communism doesnt need an government. That is the way during the switch between before you want to be communist and after yu are communist.


well we have a communist in my country (actually more an extreme socialist) with his own party. Well in one part of the country there was a guy who was having a job there but couldnt do any other work because he was physically not ok. But the leader wanted everyone to put some of their salary in the campaign of the party, but he couldnt afford that, so he was fired. (all people around him went too, but it is a good example how communism fails sometimes because of the equalism)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
everyone has a communist leader, in the US its Sam Webb, but the presidential candidate is Brian Moore, hes like the public figure. you should look up some of their ideals, they've drawn up hundreds of ways to integrate socialist ideals into todays society, in a way that would ease us into socialism, and possibly work.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
everyone has a communist leader, in the US its Sam Webb, but the presidential candidate is Brian Moore, hes like the public figure. you should look up some of their ideals, they've drawn up hundreds of ways to integrate socialist ideals into todays society, in a way that would ease us into socialism, and possibly work.

in my country. the communist leader left for the Netherlands. he is still there though coz we don't have an extradition agreement with that country...

it's true, communism heavily depends on the quality of people. not just on the leader.

heck! any government with a good leadership could dramatically improve the lives of its people.

it is just sad that this is not the case.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
in my country. the communist leader left for the Netherlands. he is still there though coz we don't have an extradition agreement with that country...

it's true, communism heavily depends on the quality of people. not just on the leader.

heck! any government with a good leadership could dramatically improve the lives of its people.

it is just sad that this is not the case.

ya communisms big in europe, were a major minority here in the usa, only like 35,000 true marxists (engles never gets credit where credit is due). meh USA the worlds capital for democracy and capitalism, what can one expect i guess... if only i spoke chinese...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
ya communisms big in europe, were a major minority here in the usa, only like 35,000 true marxists (engles never gets credit where credit is due). meh USA the worlds capital for democracy and capitalism, what can one expect i guess... if only i spoke chinese...

capitalism is on the rise in china.
 

DeletedUser15986

Guest
Hi and welcome to the communist thread... communism is sexy.. convert now...

dws-t-is-one-Communism.jpg


seriously this topic is dedicated to sparking another evil political debate.. and ya im a communist.. if anyone can show me 1 way communism is evil i will lick the lint from their clothes...

Stalin.

/thread
 

DeletedUser4797

Guest
Oh gee, forcing people into abandoning their religion? Killing people? That is not a national thing, as it´s been done in just about every communist country. >_>
 

blurk

Guest
orwell sucked.. communism is the only road too true peace and equality.. the roads there for america to take.. every year we have a presidential condidate, this year its Brian Moore, spusa found him, the 08 socialist candidate and cpusa backs him.. do the right thing.. vote for moore.. convert to communism.. speak spanish

http://www.votebrianmoore.com/mission.htm

Okay so when will China become more equal?
for at the moment they are still in the period between revolution and equality.
the stage in which all the power is handed by only a few, just like it was before the revolution. the only difference is the name, depotism/communism
 

DeletedUser21820

Guest
absolutely true communist leaders are elected democratically

I think you'd find that comment is flawed. Given that in true communism there is no structure of government because it's just provides another vehicle of oppression of the proletariat.

Rather than trying to provide a point of why communism is evil I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on why it isn't.
 

DeletedUser21820

Guest
capitalism is on the rise in china.

Apologies for the double post however I'd like to address this comment.

You're entirely correct. Hong Kong and Singapore (I don't recall in which order) are the freest economies in the world. However given that Hong Kong is to be government with a high degree of autonomy until 2047 I'm unsure if that's China or Great Britain's influence.

At this stage you could hardly call China and it's economy communist but more like a planned or mixed economy. I'd even go as far to say that it's gradually becoming a Social market economy.
 

geheim05

Guest
Another problem is that if corporations don't take care of things like phones, the goverment will have to do that. I don't think many people like it if almost everything they buy or use is controlled by the goverment. Way too much power for the goverment btw.
 

DeletedUser21820

Guest
Another problem is that if corporations don't take care of things like phones, the goverment will have to do that. I don't think many people like it if almost everything they buy or use is controlled by the goverment. Way too much power for the goverment btw.


Government owned services is only half of the coin, the other is that they don't have a choice. Free market capitalism allows the user to select the service that they wish to use. Competition amongst services allows the best possible services to offer the best possible service or be eliminated by a lack of market share. In the case of monopolies Darwinism supports the mantra of "survival of the fittest" and if people grow dissatisfied with the monopolist service then in the nature of the free market other companies will be established to provide an alternative service to rival the monopoly.

Communism nips all this beautiful choice and through choice freedom, in the bud and dictates that the citizens have to deal with a certain entity or face being ostracised or missing out on the benefits of a service entirely.
 
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