Declaration of war.

DeletedUser

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virgilcain said:
Interesting. So JJ has had a declaration all along. And it was [DT], not F.D,that declared.
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I'd class setting someone as enemies as a declaration of war, but I suppose if it's the bit of paper with the seal of a Duke on it, we declared first. But if you want to look at the catalyctic events (yes, I do study history. Mainly wars), then F.D forced [DT] into radical action which in turn caused the outbreak of war. In a short summary: the Iubi situation, Redlance ignoring any attempts to speak to him about breaking our trust, our dropping of the NAP to neutral, F.D setting [DT] as enemies after localised attacks and JJ formally declaring, would be all the points you need to look at. I'd class the main catalyctic events as: the Iubi situation (I'm sure you know, before the fiasco we were considering a lasting alliance between F.D and [DT]), Redlance ignoring [DT]'s questions and later on demands, F.D setting [DT] as enemies and the final declaration. Overall, the 'blame' lies more with F.D than [DT]. We were lied to and disrespected over F.D's handling of Iubi. Then we were further insulted by Redlance's refusal to answer our questions and then demands. Then, after informing you we had set a date to dropp the NAP in disgust, you set us as enemies (before telling or warning us). All [DT] did was act in return to what F.D was (or wasn't) doing.
I'll agree on a few of your points, but would like to discuss a few others. If I take you at your word that there was(is?) a declaration, to insinuate that it was in the hidden forum is wrong. You know it, I know it.
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I'm sure JJ wrote the letter to Redlance and posted it in the Hidden we shared. I remember reading it, so it must've been readily available somewhere and it is not now. I also remember F.D council crying about us declaring war after it had been posted. They seemed to refuse to accept we had declared war. I found this funny. Imagine I turned up on your doorstep with a loaded gun and told you I was going to shoot you. Saying 'no you're not' and pretending it wont happen isn't going to change the fact you're about to get an unhealthy amount of lead in you..
The dropping of the NAP and players taking advantage of the red=dead is correct, but will differ with the [DT] opinion that no Ops were launched.
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I can honestly tell you no OPs were launched. We'd just launched an OP on Myriad (I myself had snook in and grabbed a few) and we were wondering whether or not we had enough nukes for a launch on NUKE. We had a few people asking on the forums about was it ok to attack F.D and the usual 'Red=Dead, but be prepared to deal with any repercussions of your actions' response applied. Any OPs (or co-ordinated attacks) would have been localised and between a very small amount of players. That's just because in [DT] we work together (for the most part) and people talk to their neighbours regularily. The council had nothing planned..
Your statement that an informant told you about F.D. setting you as enemies is comical, though. It was posted in the shared forums and 3 times in this thread. I was watching it all happen in real time that morning and know the second you were set as enemies. Not denying you may have had an informant, just that LMKU told you that you were set as enemies.
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Exact dates are a little fuzzy. I cant say I was sat there writing down the exact day when people found stuff out. I personally found out through my informant as I was going through a period of being too lazy to do much.

Believe what you will about my side of the events. I know I'll be seen as biased for being in [DT], but that is my opinion and observation of what was going on. Like you, I can 'back up' some facts, while others would be more down to interpretation or questioning exact timings of events. I wasn't keeping track of the seconds.. :)
 

DeletedUser

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zewerrat said:
I'm sure JJ wrote the letter to Redlance and posted it in the Hidden we shared
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I'm not sure, so I didn't post the whole thing, but is this what your referring to?
jjsharpleton on 23.08. at 00:05 Quote Edit Delete


And "war" is indicated when one tribe turns the village indicators of another tribe to bright red on the map. Kinda' like you guys did to us.

Enough with this. Even though you guys told us your diplomatic status was now set to "war" with us - de facto declaring war here on this forum - you'll probably want to insist to the rest of the world that Withering took the bus over to your house and held a curling iron to your head to force you to declare, so really - it's not your fault at all.
 

DeletedUser

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There was a more official sounding declaration.. I just dont have a copy. Might be one somewhere in our forums. If I find it, I'll post it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
zewerrat said:
I'd class setting someone as enemies as a declaration of war, but I suppose if it's the bit of paper with the seal of a Duke on it, we declared first. But if you want to look at the catalyctic events (yes, I do study history. Mainly wars),
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I too, study history, including wars, so it should be no surprise to you for why the necessity of declarations of war exist. They exist so there cannot be any doubt as to any intentions whatsoever. No gray areas. A clear, concise statement explaining exactly what the intentions are. If you have to class something as such, then it is not a declaration. For anyone to argue anything else about setting someone as enemies to be a declaration of war, would be foolish.

zewerrat said:
Then, after informing you we had set a date to dropp the NAP in disgust, you set us as enemies (before telling or warning us). All [DT] did was act in return to what F.D was (or wasn't) doing.
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jjsharpleton on 21.08. at 05:43 Quote Edit Delete
jjsharpleton said:
lAttention Leadership of F.D:

On August 5, I sent to the Dukes of F.D a mail regarding, among other things, the jeopardy which our diplomatic relations were in. I respectfully required a response. To date, I have received none. In that mail I asked F.D's leadership to "Please keep in mind that no answer is also an answer."

Regretfully, I must therefore conclude that no answer is indeed the only answer forthcoming.

As a result of this breakdown in communications, I am removing our NAP with F.D effective immediately.

[DT] has attempted to resolve, both formally and informally, our differences with F.D, to no avail.

If you would have peace with us, the ball is entirely in your court. I will not withdraw [DT] from this forum, as I believe that all doors are better kept open than closed; but we won't be communicating very much with you in it either, unless you have something very compelling to speak to us about.
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No date was set. [DT] dropped the NAP and launched attacks. Then you contend that the reason we set you as enemies is because you dropped the NAP. No, it was because you sent attacks aimed at leadearship and, what you define, as small localised ops against players, that [DT] contends, they had grudges against. Also, you can clearly see that jj has said that no reply was given, but on August 5, he did receive a reply.

redlance said:
RedLance on 05.08. at 16:11
Currently I am at work and I do not have the time to Address everything in your letter with the due amount of time and respect such a missive requires. As soon as I can sit down and properly answer your message I will do so. I did not want you to think I had read it and was refusing to answer for that is far from the case.

Sincerly,
RedLance
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zewerrat said:
I can honestly tell you no OPs were launched. We'd just launched an OP on Myriad (I myself had snook in and grabbed a few) and we were wondering whether or not we had enough nukes for a launch on NUKE. We had a few people asking on the forums about was it ok to attack F.D and the usual 'Red=Dead, but be prepared to deal with any repercussions of your actions' response applied. Any OPs (or co-ordinated attacks) would have been localised and between a very small amount of players. That's just because in [DT] we work together (for the most part) and people talk to their neighbours regularily. The council had nothing planned..
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I can honestly tell you that saying no Ops were launched then saying any ops would have been localised is a contradiction.


In regards to this:

zewerrat said:
JJ wrote a breif letter to Redlance, declaring war on F.D. At that point, a few F.D players who liked [DT] left to join us or hit delete.

Redlance never passed this declaration of war on to the masses.
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JJ wrote a letter but can't produce it. You claim it may have been posted in the hidden forums. For what my word is worth, it is not. Then you accuse that Redlance never passed this declaration on to the masses. Why wouldn't [DT] pass it on to the masses? Why not declare in the public forums? Well, considering [DT]'s penchant for wanting to publically assassinate Redlance's character, I find that the inability of [DT] to produce it, or even it existence, to be extremely suspect. Isn't no answer, an answer?
 

DeletedUser

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Got one thing to say, this is really boring the ASS of me right now, and im sure lots agree, you know what, who the hell cares who declared on who?

The truth is FD and DT were unable to sort out their differences and that ended up in us going to war with each other, i know what happened as was part of it, but whatever i say, you will no doubt try to rubbish, as i would do with your comments.

So in the interests of all of us not hanging ourselves out of boredom then lets agree to disagree.
 

DeletedUser

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Virgil, like I said those were my followings of the events that lead up to war between F.D and [DT]. No one source is going to be 100% reliable, although atleast I provided a primary source of the events. At the end of the day, whoever declred on who ended up with us being at war. Only 3 things can change that: [DT] being defeated, F.D being defeated or both tribe coming to a peace agreement. Until one of these events happens, we are at war :)
 

DeletedUser

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personally im just shocked at how low FD's standards are when it comes to what classifies as an operation (not to mention that they treat neutral tribes as NAPs).
 

DeletedUser

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Virgil: Sorry I kept dodging. Was having a spot of bother with people trying to noble me. How inconsiderate of them!
 

DeletedUser

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Caesarr said:
not to mention that they treat neutral tribes as NAPs.
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Im only quoting half as the other half would be wrong for me to post about
(hope you dont mind me cutting a little, it doesent effect the point).

i think someone posted before about it... it doesent matter who declared or for what reason because it wont change things, just people's perception of the tribe or person.

I know people can get caught up in arguing, then you get to a point where your saying things you dont really belive.

at the end of the day we have all played this game for along time and we all know what Neutral means, and neutral tribes attack eachother

it was a little bit more complicated this time because the Neutral tribe was in the top 3 but the same rules apply.
 

DeletedUser

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Anymore out of topic arguments will result in this topic in being locked.
(bad grammar)
IYA
 

DeletedUser

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But they are on topic.. We're discussing the declration of war..
 

DeletedUser

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[DT] are an awful tribe. KNT should put this sorry specimen out of their misery.
 
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