HotLikeDat
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No one has really responded to my points or raised questions / loopholes that they see. However, I'll respond to some points raised by others and also clarify something I should have mentioned earlier.
Different types of pushing: In order to improve the ability of the mods to stamp out the pushing that matters from that which is relatively inconsequential I want to make clear my opinion on the different categories of pushing.
- Casual pushing: some bloke out on the rim ranked 600 nobles 1 village of a mate and moves up to rank 500. That's it for the entire world. This doesn't really need to be punished, at least not very severely. Give the guy a warning maybe, but this isn't the type of pushing that is really destroying the game and even affecting outcomes of certain worlds.
- Professional pushing: players who go HAM on pp and do all they can to "get ahead" by any means necessary. These are the accounts spending big bucks, probably using bots, and using several if not into the double figures of push accounts to either improve their farming area / gift free villages / bash off competition early. This is what really needs to be stamped down on. Tbh, any player outside the top 100 isn't really making much of a difference, it should still be punished of course. But the mods should not be dedicating hours and hours to inconsequential grey-area merges, when there's clear top-ranks professional, systematic pushing going on that's being unpunished.
By botting do you mean a farm bot? Or is there another type I am unfamiliar with.
The advantage a player can get from pushing (2,3,4+ players gifting at various stages of start- and early-mid game) FAR exceeds the benefit from "bot" farming, there is no doubt in my mind there. The punishment should scale accordingly. The punishment should also take into consideration the likelihood of being caught: this is standard for deterrence policy in most real world situations (think parking fines: if you don't pay a £2 parking ticket and get a £90 fine). It has to be that extreme to account for the fact that most people who don't pay for parking get away with it. The same applies to pushing.
It depends on the stage of the world, but unless a tribe/player is at a critical stage of a war where troops are desperately needed, the impact of a 30% loss is likely to be negligible to the types of players who typically push. The types of players who do anything to get ahead, including rule breaking via pushing, maybe botting, they will also be spending big bucks on PP and at events. The threat of having a few villages taken off them and losing some coins, which they can easily replace in a matter of hours with an event or spending in the PP exchange and then rapidly re-noble the villages, is laughable. It really is. If the punishment isn't increase, there is no deterrence. Most pushing cases clearly go unpunished due to the large grey area. These professional push accounts know exactly what they are doing, they know its rule-breaking, and they should pay the price for that. Right now they clearly believe the risk is worth it: they probably won't get caught, and even if they do the punishment is minimal.
The same doesn't apply to casual pushers, newer players who effectively 'push' out on the rim by mistake and it has little effect on anything. Sure, a 30% loss of villages and 24/48 hour ban is sufficient to make the point and then allow them to continue. You cannot take the same approach to infinite res pack / double flag professional push accounts.
Until reading this discussion I had no idea the punishment was so light. This is clearly a MAJOR issue in the enforcement of this rule at present. The downside is almost nothing to these professional pushers, and the upside is huge. This must be rectified if the game has any real desire to cut out pushing.
Different types of pushing: In order to improve the ability of the mods to stamp out the pushing that matters from that which is relatively inconsequential I want to make clear my opinion on the different categories of pushing.
- Casual pushing: some bloke out on the rim ranked 600 nobles 1 village of a mate and moves up to rank 500. That's it for the entire world. This doesn't really need to be punished, at least not very severely. Give the guy a warning maybe, but this isn't the type of pushing that is really destroying the game and even affecting outcomes of certain worlds.
- Professional pushing: players who go HAM on pp and do all they can to "get ahead" by any means necessary. These are the accounts spending big bucks, probably using bots, and using several if not into the double figures of push accounts to either improve their farming area / gift free villages / bash off competition early. This is what really needs to be stamped down on. Tbh, any player outside the top 100 isn't really making much of a difference, it should still be punished of course. But the mods should not be dedicating hours and hours to inconsequential grey-area merges, when there's clear top-ranks professional, systematic pushing going on that's being unpunished.
How should pushers be punished? What is the punishment?
I think it should be a strong sanction but pushing isn't as serious to me as botting so shouldn't be our most severe consequence for first-time pushing bans (30% point/village reduction feels justified).
By botting do you mean a farm bot? Or is there another type I am unfamiliar with.
The advantage a player can get from pushing (2,3,4+ players gifting at various stages of start- and early-mid game) FAR exceeds the benefit from "bot" farming, there is no doubt in my mind there. The punishment should scale accordingly. The punishment should also take into consideration the likelihood of being caught: this is standard for deterrence policy in most real world situations (think parking fines: if you don't pay a £2 parking ticket and get a £90 fine). It has to be that extreme to account for the fact that most people who don't pay for parking get away with it. The same applies to pushing.
Losing 30% of an account can be game-changing - keep in mind the coins for those nobles also disappear (so say a 100 village account loses 30 villages, it also drops the noble limit available by 30). Troop and positioning loss alongside this is huge.
It depends on the stage of the world, but unless a tribe/player is at a critical stage of a war where troops are desperately needed, the impact of a 30% loss is likely to be negligible to the types of players who typically push. The types of players who do anything to get ahead, including rule breaking via pushing, maybe botting, they will also be spending big bucks on PP and at events. The threat of having a few villages taken off them and losing some coins, which they can easily replace in a matter of hours with an event or spending in the PP exchange and then rapidly re-noble the villages, is laughable. It really is. If the punishment isn't increase, there is no deterrence. Most pushing cases clearly go unpunished due to the large grey area. These professional push accounts know exactly what they are doing, they know its rule-breaking, and they should pay the price for that. Right now they clearly believe the risk is worth it: they probably won't get caught, and even if they do the punishment is minimal.
The same doesn't apply to casual pushers, newer players who effectively 'push' out on the rim by mistake and it has little effect on anything. Sure, a 30% loss of villages and 24/48 hour ban is sufficient to make the point and then allow them to continue. You cannot take the same approach to infinite res pack / double flag professional push accounts.
Until reading this discussion I had no idea the punishment was so light. This is clearly a MAJOR issue in the enforcement of this rule at present. The downside is almost nothing to these professional pushers, and the upside is huge. This must be rectified if the game has any real desire to cut out pushing.