DNY vs .net

faaaaark

Guest
I will get my original post from our forum to clear everything up:

Posted on 08.06. at 17:21:
faaaaark said:
The gap is closing:

W12
Rank: 1.
Name: Elite Dynasty
Members: 91
Points: 432,083,662
Villages: 73,259
Average points per village: 10,030
Tribe Changes: 446
Conquers: 71447 (+67269 -4178)
Best Rank: 1. 30th March 2009
Most Points: 428,815,064 08th June 2009
Most Villages: 72,015 08th June 2009
OD Rank: 1. (2,330,402,377 score)
OD Attack Rank: 1. (1,478,886,091 score)
OD Defense Rank: 1. (851,516,286 score)

W10
Rank: 1.
Name: Ctrl+Alt+Elite
Members: 77
Points: 481,361,599
Villages: 73,659
Average points per village: 9,878
Tribe Changes: 564
Conquers: 84706 (+71570 -13136)
Best Rank: 1. 30th March 2009
Most Points: 481,072,450 08th June 2009
Most Villages: 76,456 11th March 2009
OD Rank: 1. (2,874,708,291 score)
OD Attack Rank: 1. (1,573,665,514 score)
OD Defense Rank: 1. (1,301,526,614 score)
Posted on 08.06. at 19:19
faaaaark said:
I think it's now official... we're the biggest tribe on .net:


Rank: 1.
Name: Elite Dynasty
Members: 92
Points: 432,370,934
Villages: 73,868
Average points per village: 10,025
Tribe Changes: 447
Conquers: 71485 (+67307-4178)
Best Rank: 1. 30th March 2009
Most Points: 428,815,064 08th June 2009
Most Villages: 72,015 08th June 2009
OD Rank: 1. (2,330,402,377 score)
OD Attack Rank: 1. (1,478,886,091 score)
OD Defense Rank: 1. (851,516,286 score)

Shane, I'll leave this one for you to announce.
Posted on 09.06. at 11:07
faaaaark said:
I've checked the stats. We are currently the largest individual tribe (by total points) on the .net network at the moment. This is because we have more people in our tribe, but we are officially the biggest tribe by total points AND villages.

The defining moment will be when we surpass 76,456 villages. CTRL were officially the largest tribe ever with 76,456 villages on the 11th March 2009. They have since fallen back a bit to 73,793 villages.

We currently have 74,426 villages. At 3.5 villages a day, we should surpass 76,456 villages in about 7 days.
Not long after this post, a player was booted from DNY. This drastically lowered the total number of villages within DNY.
 
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spawnie-rose

Guest
Interesting statistics.
I love how DVADER have the highest average points per village, while CTRL have the lowest average points :icon_cool:
 

ironjacket

Guest
Although DNY had more villages, they also had 15 more members than Ctrl. Ctrl still have a much higher average points per player, and if Ctrl were to add another 15 players to the tribe, the total would probably jump by roughly 10 mil :icon_wink:.
 

Nightmare987

Guest
Although DNY had more villages, they also had 15 more members than Ctrl. Ctrl still have a much higher average points per player, and if Ctrl were to add another 15 players to the tribe, the total would probably jump by roughly 10 mil :icon_wink:.
indeed but W10 is 3 months younger ;)

btw how are you doing mate? u remember me from Nomads? :p
still playing W10?
 

Galum

Contributing Poster
You should recalculate this with regard to speed and when the worlds started imo. Also mark who's 2nd on what category if possible, just to make it easier to find out ;-)
 

thirsty

Guest
Shouldn't the tribe with the most members be in red while the tribe with least members in green?
 

Lizy

Guest
I think the best way to decide who is best is manipulate twstats data and figure it out from there.


Points

Say you want to compare the first 13 worlds 2 years in, which means 1 year in for 2x worlds and 16 months for 1.5x worlds.

Take the current points of the #1 tribe, remove points of those who joined since it hit the 2 year mark, add the points of loses since it hit the 2 year mark, minus the ennoblements since it hit the 2 year mark.. and there you have the point value 2 years in.

Villages

Take the current amount of villages, remove all those that were nobled, add the amount of villages that were lost, and then remove the # of villages gained due to new people joining since the 2 year point.

Be careful of the tribe ennoblements against itself.

Then you can truly see who is the "best" tribe of .net as its a more accurate comparison.


I just did 2 worlds myself, only took me about 30 minutes in a spreadsheet.
 

Rednecks

Guest
Although DNY had more villages, they also had 15 more members than Ctrl. Ctrl still have a much higher average points per player, and if Ctrl were to add another 15 players to the tribe, the total would probably jump by roughly 10 mil :icon_wink:.
We anticipated someone pointing that out and it would not make sense for a tribe to recruit their way to make these numbers look good. I have debated the CTRL vs DNY with KW in another thread here. As Nightmare mentioned W10 is almost 4 monthes older than W12 so our average points per person and villages could never match up with W10. Our #1 player would barely crack the top 10 on W10.

A couple of stats that do weigh heavily in our favor is the conquors gained versus the losses. But when you look at those numbers you also have to cross reference the OD, which is missing, to get a feel if the tribe is warring for those conquors or simply eating inactives/barbs. Another stat that weighs heavily in DNY's favor is the amount of continents we control. DNY has control of 31 more continents and is second on 6 more than CTRL. IMO this justifies our conquors to prove they are taken through war. The fact that CTRL only controls 24 suggests that their continents are more compact with those baby barbs nobled and developed.

This post should wake KW up. :icon_wink:
 

Jonathan1979

Guest
Row Row, one question: the number of members.
I find it weird that the highest number is taken into account as being 'best', where imo it should have been the other way around.

The fewer members you need to obtain your data, the better right?
 

qwe4rty

Guest
A couple of stats that do weigh heavily in our favor is the conquors gained versus the losses. But when you look at those numbers you also have to cross reference the OD, which is missing, to get a feel if the tribe is warring for those conquors or simply eating inactives/barbs. Another stat that weighs heavily in DNY's favor is the amount of continents we control. DNY has control of 31 more continents and is second on 6 more than CTRL. IMO this justifies our conquors to prove they are taken through war. The fact that CTRL only controls 24 suggests that their continents are more compact with those baby barbs nobled and developed.
I'll play a little devils advocate seeing as how I have nothing better to do at work, but...if I'm not mistaken, W10 is on the old system of OD while W12 is on the new system (amirite?).

A couple of interesting statistics:

OD from TWstats (the summation of each players individual OD) leaves
CTRL: 1,591,648,845 ODA, 1,312,182,928 ODD
DNY : 1,532,382,072 ODA, 883,857,698 ODD

Fairly comparable ODA scores, but CTRL has 1.5 the amount of ODD. This on a world where I believe it's harder to come by OD points as it is based on population rather than a points system.

In game, you see pretty much the same story.

While the difference in continent dominance is stark, I wouldn't say CTRL has been building up low point barbs.

Of course, we then have to look and see that CTRL has lost nearly 3 times as many villages as DNY (which doesn't correspond to their ODD only being 1.5 times higher). Are they simply lesser defenders, or have they simply been in more/longer situations where their defense has been spread extra thin and can't cover everything?

The wonders of playing with statistics :icon_razz:

(back to work for me...)
 
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muncius

Guest
I'll play a little devils advocate seeing as how I have nothing better to do at work, but...if I'm not mistaken, W10 is on the old system of OD while W12 is on the new system (amirite?).
First 12, not 10 worlds are on the old system of OD:

Opponents defeated ranking - active, depending on farm space

So in both W10 and W12 OD counts in the same way.
 

qwe4rty

Guest
Fair enough. Looks like they updated the help pages as I don't recall that being there before. I knew the breakpoint was W12, I just didn't know if it was worlds before W12 or worlds after W12 that had this implemented :)
 

Nightmare987

Guest
thats right... W12 OD depends of farm space meaning u could get (only :/ ) around 20k OD for each village cleared no matter if u attack or defend or what troops u kill...

and yes Mon i meant created earlier or i should have said older around 3-4 months...

i guess the best way to calculate that is like Lizy said for all worlds...

if it is only between W10 and W12 i think we should see that when both worlds hit the 2 year mark and write down the results :p
 
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Rednecks

Guest
qwe, IMO ODD is the most overrated stat in tribalwars. To me it does not measure how great somebody is at defending. Generally players we are attacking end up with really good ODD but that doesn't mean they were good. Anybody can suck the tribes support in to stack their villages to kill nukes with but it takes a great defender to be able to take what you have and snipe nobles with it. Our ODD is not good because we are always the ones on the offensive with the enemies most active. Generally this turtles them up and others are to scared to fire back at us.

Also, I do not mean to insinuate CTRL is a simcity tribe as I am familiar with their aggresive style of play and they have some talent. But CTRL has about 4000 more villages than us while controlling 1/2 the amount of continents. From playing W10 myself I do know there was a period of time after CTRL & Die killed Muffins that everyone was more interested in building alliances than actually fighting. I think this stunted CTRL's growth more than anything, if they declared on one of them they probably would have had to deal withl the rest of them. DNY has been pretty methodical on how we ran through this world, we kept declaring on whoever was #2 while keeping diplomacy with who we needed to. Taizu & Dada pretty much dared the rest of the world to jump on us and the few that did paid the consequences.
 

qwe4rty

Guest
I wasn't using ODD as a measure of how good they were defensively, but rather as an indication of how many incoming attacks they have received. Combine their much larger ODD with their significantly higher loss of villages, and it seems like people are more willing to attack CTRL then they are DNY.

Reasons for why that might be the case? In honesty, it doesn't make much difference to me, as I'm certainly not trying to insinuate one tribe > the other. It could be general competition level, it could be the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of tribes working diplomacy to their advantage, it could be something completely different. Both tribes will point to the reason that shows them in the greater light

Like I said, I'm merely playing with stats while at work after rediscovering the W12 forums :icon_wink:.
 

KingWoodly

Guest
It's hard to compare both worlds. It's fairly different with the entire makeup of it. World 10 was the first speed 2 world so more people played it at the start than world 12 leading to a more "developed" world. World 12 is around 2.1 billion points total where as World 10 is over 3 billion points, that's a lot of points alocated to different tribes. So there were always several massive "super powers" on the world. Which also explains CTRL's high amount of villages loss, when we recruit players in enemy territory. We let them know if they want to join they're going to have to concede the villages to the enemy, because we were fighting so many wars on so many ends its impossible to fully cover all of these villages deep in enemy territory.

As for after the Muffin war. I don't know about other tribes but CTRL has always sucked at diplomacy ... on purpose so we were always in a constant state of war with several tribes at any given time. There were people on world who were happy and actually proud of their "diplomacy" skills and were content with hugging. This wasn't a way I wanted to play the game. I game from world 7 and knew what kind of world that would lead to if everyone had this mentality. So CTRL went out of its way to crush tribes in it's path in a very unfriendly manner. Which led us to be extremely hated and several coalitions to form against us (all of which have failed horribly). With the most recent coalition totaling up to over 1.5 billion points it hasn't been easy on us but we've still been able to overcome it quite well.

But of course I am not one to take away from someone elses achievements, since DNY has achieved a lot and have ended up winning this world. So people should just give them their congratz since its well deserved.
 

Rednecks

Guest
Some good points.

We do have 11,000 fewer villages than W10 even though W12 is bigger since our world has villages all the way to the corners while W10 is a circle. W12 also have about 80,000 more abandoned villages which leads to some of the point differences.

I agree when W10 first came out there were people more interested in playing the diplomacy game than fighting. A big reason why I am here and not on W10, playing sim city got boring and I wanted a challenge.

You guys got your work cut out for you. There is no question the best of W10 will always be considered CTRL. DNY's balance of diplomacy with wars is what has given us the edge in how quickly we have expanded.