Closed Discussion Fairness with Flags

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One Last Shot...

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Hello fellow community peeps!

The latest Community Thinktank is focused on flags, in particular focusing on how to make this aspect of the game fairer to the entire community. I'd like to start off by stating what I see as the positives and negatives that come with flags.

The positives
  • Rewards players who stick with the game
  • Players who play worlds for longer periods of time build up 'better' flags, so it is an extra encouragement to not 'quit' a world as you can gain more flags, quicker, as you get larger.
  • Flags add an extra element of strategy to the game that helps in all sorts of circumstances (such as farming, troop building, attacking, defending, resources from mines, minting coins)
The negatives
  • Entirely new accounts are at a disadvantage for months in many aspects (farming potential, resources from mines, total cost of nobles, strength attacking / defending, amount of troops able to be built in a village etc).
  • Having this setting on every world means every new account suffers on every new world.
To add my perspective, I personally have no issue with flags and enjoy them being a part of the game. I feel some of them could be altered for more value but that is not the purpose of this topic. I do, however, see flags as being unfairly balanced in favour of experienced players. How could this imbalance be addressed? Should it be addressed?

A few ideas

1. Have flags as an 'alternate' world setting.
It could be any ratio of worlds (every other one, 2 in every 3 or whatever suits the game best) but could be an option for exploring. This would allow players who are new to have some worlds that, upon joining, won't have an immediate disadvantage from the lack of flags.

2. Alter flag quests.
New accounts could be given an improved selection of flags during the initial startup quests, which accounts who have played on a previous world would not get. In my mind, this would be some flags 2-3 levels higher but of course, that would be a matter of opinion and discussion as well. A new player receiving a yellow flag instead of a grey flag on several occasions immediately begins to address the imbalance between new accounts and older accounts.

3. Starter flag package.
New accounts could be given a package of several flags upon registering (for the purposes of an example, say 15 random flags ranging from red to green). Again, this would ensure new players immediately get put onto a fairer starting platform where they have some more valuable flags to compete with. This particular suggestion I can see being a problem with accounts being used to gain flags and then trade them for less valuable flags (eg luck flags which seem to be unused by many players), so these starter flags I would envisage being locked to an account in a similar manner to premium gained through the market.

The driving force behind each of these suggestions is how to level the playing field between brand new accounts and older accounts, whilst ensuring that accounts who have spent months and years building up a collection of those elusive black flags don't completely lose their hard earned advantage.



We would love to hear your thoughts on this matter!

  • How could flag imbalance between new accounts and established accounts be addressed?
  • What are your thoughts on the possibilities suggested above?
  • Are there any other possible ways of rectifying this issue?
  • ...
 
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General Iroh

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Option 3 or 1 (I like 3 the most) seems to be most fair out of those.

If you alter flag quests only for the newer players, it kind of devalues the ancient accounts? Altho I get no purple or black flags will be given away so at least there's that. :p But I do think the 'buy flag package' allready deals with that issue.

I think high tier flags (blue -> black) should always be 'rare' and available to accounts who have played multiple worlds to achieve those kind of flags as it's kind of unique.

A starter flag package however, I can see myself vote for.
 

Curious George

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I'll start by saying I don't think the current system is terrible.

One possible solution would be combining option 1 with the ability to still earn flags on those worlds, just not use them. This would allow new accounts to gain flags on an even playing field and then have them the next time a flag world opens.

The issues I see with options 2 and 3 is that people will find a way to exploit and just create new accounts and funnel those flags back into their main account(s) - only work around for this would be locking those flags at the level they're awarded + not allowing them to be traded, but I'm not sure that's ideal.
 

I For Win

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I don't think this is a major issue people not playing etc. Also those who started and got a solid amount of flags still have the advantage + kinda deserve it imo. If you really want flags you can buy some flags ingame.
Like people will more likely just abuse this rather than it help new accounts. People start account after account then just trade better flags with main accounts they play on.. It WILL happend if this comes along.
 

Sgt@Arms

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I agree and like those suggestions you mentioned.

In addition, I suggest these few things:

1. Same as Beginner Protection. You can disable Level 2 and up flags for the first month, then open it up on start of the 2nd month, open level 3 flag on start of 3rd month and so on. Maybe a limit or have a variation on when the next level flags can be enabled. Or it can be a Quest on when to enable certain level of flags and associate a reward to it.

2. As for the transferring of these flags to other players, make it like PP as well. That the flag earned from Quest (higher levels) cannot or will have restriction on how it can be traded. In the same manner, put a certain time element on when/how these flags can be transferred/traded to another player.

3. Buying of flags should be allowed and no restrictions whatsoever on transfer/trade.
 

One Last Shot...

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The issues I see with options 2 and 3 is that people will find a way to exploit and just create new accounts and funnel those flags back into their main account(s) - only work around for this would be locking those flags at the level they're awarded + not allowing them to be traded, but I'm not sure that's ideal.

I had thought about this, but for this to be done directly, it would for the most part involve multi-accounting on a world which would lead to the accounts in question getting banned. The only other option would be doing it spanning across 2 worlds with a third party.

With flags only being able to be traded like-for-like, and not for higher/lower levels, that in itself does already limit how much any of these changes could be abused. The suggestion of having the flags gained through option 2 / option 3 I think will also prevent these changes from being abused.
 

busamad

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Having the flag effect decrease with size be it points or villages would help level things off a bit. Working like morale this could change over the course of the world just like beginner protection. (Not every world) - Maybe a better option than removing them completely as the new player would not gain any on some worlds.

I think that flags should be able to be down scaled maybe not instantly but over a time period scaled via level like buildings. Would help everyone. More the new player who may not have many so up-scales to attack / defend or whatever else is needed.

But do like the ideas put forward. I remember the concerns about flags when they first popped up in the game to be honest don't think it has made such a large impact as many of the other features since premium became a problem to play the game.

When having a premium account went from 100 per month to 200 per month think that was the biggest impact on retention this game had.
I remember many players used to watch ads to gain premium.
Could something not be put in place to gain in game rewards like flags giving you a advertising revenue stream. As mentioned this reward could be scaled on number of years played.
 

dzippe

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As the one who started this disscusion on the official discord chanel, I am for option one. Also, let them be an alternative world setting like the night bonus. "Flags can be buyed in game" isn't an argue enough, since TW is a free to play game and wasnt meant to be a pay to play game.
"flags doesn't do that much, its a few % here and there" those few % realy do something. If you are good at math, every % change something drastically.
It's just like when you take credit from the bank, every % in the interest means a lot. And the time is a factor too. Should make a graph later
 

Deleted User - 10368546

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Stop being lazy people, if you wanna be good at this game you gotta put in work. That is if you are not rich and have like 200k pp laying around on your account/s.

What I personally did when I started on .de with 0 flags, and 0 pp was I simply used 1 account, registered on every world I could, especially speed 2 worlds, made academy and minted as many coins as I could, then simply farmed resources and made 4 noblemans per day and killed them off, and made new ones, 4 flags a day, 1 village gave me 120 flags a month just from that, add in multiple worlds and easy hundreds of flags a month. From then on I just upgraded flags to get better lvls. Now have decent account full of flags and pp.

Like I said gotta put in work, it's very time consuming at first but when you make decent lvl mines and farm a bit, it can be done.

We can complain about pp abuse (and rightfully so) but some things are on us, farming, flags, etc can be done without pp abuse, and by everyone.
 

dzippe

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You are off topic @tribalwarz
We are talking about fairness with flags old experience Player against a new player who just found this game and is playing it. Let's say he played some worlds and your tactic won't work, cuz ppl are hungry and want your village. If you made an academy it means you habe 3k+ points and everyone in your neighberhood want your village.
 

Deleted User - 10368546

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"Entirely new accounts are at a disadvantage for months in many aspects (farming potential, resources from mines, total cost of nobles, strength attacking / defending, amount of troops able to be built in a village etc).
Having this setting on every world means every new account suffers on every new world."

^I was referring to that.

We all start somewhere and I just explained how you can get many flags in "short" time. I am sure someone could find better/faster way than mine.

BTW if you are new on w114 for example means w113, w112, w111 for example are already running, you join, build village to academy fill it with troops, leave unnecessary buildings low and nobody is gonna attack 3k village full of troops, and also moral is on your side (on older worlds).

That's also how I sell resources on new worlds, nobody is touching 3k village full of spears and swords.

You can't complain about someone who has put in work and time in game already has +18% resources and you only have +4%. You gotta put in work too. You either have to buy flags or earn them.
 

bobertini

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Just a thought, why not get a decent flag every year (inconjuction with 100pp you get).

It won't make that much of a difference especially as it'll take a number of years before they equate to anything but potentially a cyan flag?

Also, I'd tweak the Daily Achievements so you get Maroon flag and it's more so related so the daily achievement i.e. looter you either get Resource, Haul or Coin.

Defender: Defense, Luck or Recruitment etc.

To summarise, getting a Luck flag for killing a dozen troops is funny but not helpful.
 

Shinko to Kuma

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I'd suggest giving free flags for the yearly achievement. So instead of just 100pp, make it give a 'flag care package', which diminishes in quality every year. Let's say, at the start (0 years), 1 teal flag of each. After receiving the first Years of Service award, 1 of each blue flag, after 2 years, one of each green flag, after 3 years, one of each yellow... That way the older accounts will gain less from it but it will significantly boost newer accounts to have atleast a decent flag in every category to start with
 

One Last Shot...

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Although I like the suggestion of the 'yearly achievement' flag, the issue here is that the expectation is new players HAVE to play for a full year before they benefit from it. That is a full year of these players continuing to be at a further disadvantage.

This could work well in conjunction with the option 2/3 ideas.
 

Shinko to Kuma

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Although I like the suggestion of the 'yearly achievement' flag, the issue here is that the expectation is new players HAVE to play for a full year before they benefit from it. That is a full year of these players continuing to be at a further disadvantage.

This could work well in conjunction with the option 2/3 ideas.

I said at year 0 (as soon as they make their account), they should get their first 'care package'. A teal flag might be a bit overkill, but it's only 1 of each type, so would be good for a start I think. Maybe the first care package can come with the first time they have to assign a flag to the village for the questline
 

dzippe

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nobody is gonna attack 3k village full of troops, and also moral is on your side
There are small players who have a nuke and want your village too, so you tactic won't drink water.


You can't complain about someone who has put in work and time in game already has +18% resources and you only have +4%. You gotta put in work too. You either have to buy flags or earn them.
Again you go off topic. We are talking here about fairness not about hard work. TW is a free to play game, I don't need to buy something if I won't it. But I want to have the same provileges as a new player just like the old one. I want to pay for a coin the same ammount of ressourcen just like the old player. I want to create the same ammount of axes/spears/swords on barrcks lvl 25 as the old one in the same time.
 

Deleted User - 10368546

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There are small players who have a nuke and want your village too, so you tactic won't drink water.

Again you go off topic. We are talking here about fairness not about hard work. TW is a free to play game, I don't need to buy something if I won't it. But I want to have the same provileges as a new player just like the old one. I want to pay for a coin the same ammount of ressourcen just like the old player. I want to create the same ammount of axes/spears/swords on barrcks lvl 25 as the old one in the same time.

Lol I've just told you I've done it and keep doing it, so it works.
Even smaller players don't touch you because they dont wanna waste nuke+ on your small village, everybody is looking for easy villages. All you will get is multiple scout attacks daily, but nobody is stupid enough or brave enough to attack.

Again, older player who has put in more time and work in his account DESERVES to have advantage over you, what should mods do? Give you 1000+ flags for free on your every new account just because someone like Tudadar has plenty of max flags? Do you even realize how stupid that is?

This is not charity, and this game is brutal (as someone mentioned before already). Wanna succeed then put in work. Find some "easy" way to gain flags like I did, or just bitch about how someone like Tudadar has +18 resource flags and you don't.
 

DaWolf85

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I think one of the biggest issues with flags right now, that makes it difficult to say how they should be improved for newer players, is that they are actually not balanced versus each other. Almost every post here alludes to it like it's a problem that can't be solved. It absolutely could be solved. Fix the luck flag. Make the haul flag more useful in late-game (or replace it entirely). This is not impossible and would make many of the other fixes here less problematic.

The luck flag should either purely boost luck (like how all the other flags are a pure buff), or balance other RNG in the game - for example, balancing loyalty drops. Alternately, it could balance luck to be between a higher positive number and a smaller negative number, so that on average it is a buff (for example, instead of 'balance luck by x points' it would say 'balance luck to fall between +x and -y').
The haul flag I don't know for sure, as I haven't experienced earlygame recently, but the main problem I see with the haul flag is that farming isn't as necessary in lategame with the other premium features in the game now. Why farm when you can pop a 30% res pack? I think an interesting suggestion here, if we were looking at replacing the flag, would be a merchant flag. Increase the number of merchants in the village, or make existing merchants move faster or carry more resources. This would add a second element of strategy to mass-minting: which villages can you afford to put the merchant flag on to help feed your minting village, and which villages do you need to leave a different flag on?
 
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