Family Tribes

DeletedUser101947

Guest
Someone please explain to me why family tribes are bad (for the primary tribe)

I'd like the argument to keep some parameters in mind :

1) The objective of this game is to win.

2) Strategies that win are good.

3) Historical figures (examples of previous family tribes) are not a good argument.


Basically I'd like to know why, if you took the top 35 best tribal wars players that have ever played this game. They would do worse with a tribe of players willing to help support and attack for the 35 top players to reach their goal.
 

DeletedUser115536

Guest
Someone please explain to me why family tribes are bad (for the primary tribe)

I'd like the argument to keep some parameters in mind :

1) The objective of this game is to win.

2) Strategies that win are good.

3) Historical figures (examples of previous family tribes) are not a good argument.


Basically I'd like to know why, if you took the top 35 best tribal wars players that have ever played this game. They would do worse with a tribe of players willing to help support and attack for the 35 top players to reach their goal.

I think just as much as it can boost your tribe, it can also shatter it. Academies are just that, those not good enough to be in the main tribe. Be it they are inactive/new whatever, in the end most of the time they only bring your image down.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
People don't dislike family tribes because they hurt the family tribe itself, they dislike them because they generally make the game less interesting for everybody else.

They also have a negative connotation because most family tribes have poor leadership/coordination and are just a way to sort the actives from the inactives after mass recruiting while holding onto the inactives/nubs for internalling. Basically the strategy is:

1. Recruit everybody in the area and make new tribes as needed to accommodate the numbers.
2. Get rid of the inactives
3. Get rid of the ones that suck.
4. Pare down the numbers until you arrive at a solid tribe.

Rarely works, from what I've seen. Reasons vary.

But yeah, family tribes aren't categorically a bad thing. People just hate them because they keep the food safe.
 
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blckdrgn1

Guest
They can be ok early on if a few things are true -

1) The members trust and obey the leadership
2) The leadership of both tribes have the same objectives
3) The communication of plans and diplomacy is made known in both tribes quickly

Those things are rarely true early on in the game unless its a premade... eventually growing room becomes a problem when the "primary" tribe needs to expand and the "secondary" tribe is in the way.

A lot of times communication is a problem where the primary tribe makes a nap with some tribe but the secondary tribe doesnt, someone in the secondary attacks the new nap, blows it for both, etc.

Another common problem is the secondary tribes leadership decides they dont want to help the primary any more and could join the enemy against the primary.

Who wants to be in a basher tribe where you just help bigger players get bigger who will eventually want to take you out?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Family tribes got the bad reputation in the early days of Tribalwars because they "almost always" were mass recruiters trying to beat the member limit. It also allowed diplomacy talks to go along the lines of "we can be MORE than allies and work together in everything, so lets be considered a family." Since there was never a successful family tribe it was easy to bash them, and they harbored a lot of bad players/noble targets early on, it was frustrating trying to work around or through them.

Then DIE. happened. I dont remember exactly which world it was...w10 i think? But either way they had 2/3 tribes spread over all 4 core continents and were number 1/2 in the world. They also were killing everything in sight. Hoodrow recruited everything in site, where as DIE. killed everything once they got their member count set. They received MASSIVE amount of hate on the externals, as well as quite a bit in game, but the fact remained that they were legit. Since then I do not think of family tribes as automatically bad things anymore, they just have to be done correctly.

Since a lot of the "elite" tribes I have been in ended up dieing from inactivity, or stalling out on growth thanks to gang bangs, I have come to the conclusion that having another holding/academy/basher tribe(whatever you want to call it) should actually be considered a good thing, and it looks like it has finally become that way. Flaming family tribes because they are "family" is just an outdated way of doing things imo and will make you weaker in the long run. I know on this world I was able to use an academy tribe to beat 2 different tribes in a war, stack front line villages for other wars, as well as have them clear other low point players. I have bigger fish to fry instead of wasting 2 or 3 nukes clearing a 4k village because of 30% morale. So diss them all you want, but realize that you are handicapping yourself by doing so nowadays.

-OD
 

DeletedUser

Guest
W7 -WE- Family also won the world. I always thought it could be a winning strategy from the get go if a strong enough leadership was found before the start of the world. Why worry about diplomacy when you could have it set up already :p That was kind of what we were originally going for with A&H before the merge and all that. Apparently we just did not find the right mix of leaders nor did we pre-screen members into the family like we should have.
 

DeletedUser113867

Guest
family tribes have killed all competition through recruitment then got big and started slaughtering tribes.

Some will be destroyed easily like arrow but lets face it for a small normal tribe it ruins the game as you have little chance against them and 1 thing always leads to another.

Arrow created a family
they destroyed all in there path
sosrry realised that they were next
so they merged with nike and created the biggest family to be bigger than arrow
now others will look for alliances and create families to beat sosrry


People always try to get an advantage on their enemies and competition, but all it means is the competition disapears and the game is ruined as their is just merging instead of fighting.

Family tribes ruin a war game but i also think these end game alliances and things are the same, this alot of the time exactly the same as a family tribe only trying to avoid the stigma attached.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
You see guys, heartlessfool is the prime example of why grammar is SO important. He is understandable but his posts give me headaches trying to work out what he is saying, and at the end of the post I am upset with him even if I agree with what he is saying...

Anyway. You are right, family tribes can ruin a war game. Thing about a WAR game is that all is fair. If you cannot beat the methods your enemies are using, then you have to change your methods. If you want to play a completely balanced, never changing, stagnant game, go play chess. Or axis and allies. If you want to win at TW, do what you have to, complaining wont change it. You guys that complain about this stuff remind me of Bronze LoL players that think they should be Diamond but only blame others for not getting there.

Side Note: There was a list of reasons why nike merged with SoSrry, the one you mentioned being the single one you were told. You are starting to catch on! *Applause*

P.S. our "family" tribe is bigger than your tribe, which means even if we were not a family you would still be a minnow in an ocean of sharks.
 

DeletedUser113867

Guest
You see guys, heartlessfool is the prime example of why grammar is SO important. He is understandable but his posts give me headaches trying to work out what he is saying, and at the end of the post I am upset with him even if I agree with what he is saying...

Anyway. You are right, family tribes can ruin a war game. Thing about a WAR game is that all is fair. If you cannot beat the methods your enemies are using, then you have to change your methods. If you want to play a completely balanced, never changing, stagnant game, go play chess. Or axis and allies. If you want to win at TW, do what you have to, complaining wont change it. You guys that complain about this stuff remind me of Bronze LoL players that think they should be Diamond but only blame others for not getting there.

Side Note: There was a list of reasons why nike merged with SoSrry, the one you mentioned being the single one you were told. You are starting to catch on! *Applause*

P.S. our "family" tribe is bigger than your tribe, which means even if we were not a family you would still be a minnow in an ocean of sharks.

Wrong.

You kick players to your sister tribe to recruit bigger ones. If you were not a family less would have been moved due to having no room so you would not be as big. Also you would have competition in your area that would be putting up a better fight.

War is not fair but merging and families ruin the game.

Merging and families cause a knock on effect that ruins the world for everyone. How many of you think this game is worse now that every world is just merging and recruiting? I know most of you have said that they preferred the old days when wars were fun.

The thing is people like ODK think yeah the past is better but he must merge and creat the biggest family in th world so that there is no competition, then moans when wars end in a day and says why is this game not as good as the early worlds.

Play this game like it was ment to be played and it would be fun.
 

GOG the Deceiver

Guest
*ahem* puts on serious voice.

You may be surprised to know that I have absolutely no problems with family tribes. Having been apart of APOC on W18 I can absolutely say that a well coordinated family tribe is truly devastating. External forum, world chats, excellent leadership are key.

This is quite rarely the case, however I am supportive of well run families.

Now that said. Worlds these days are much smaller. Therefore families (IMO) are no longer necessary and quite likely a sign of mass recruiting or in inability to kick out dead weight (safety in numbers). Modern day families are a recipe for failure, typically. Today TW is a culture of merge, quit when attacked, and internal until you point whore a high score - that is seen as virtuous. Families are quite conducive to this.

Attack hard and you can beat any enemy. Every time.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The reason family tribes are often bad is because of morale and team coordination. If it is a true family tribe, a lot of the players learn to drown out the noise of asking for help or working as a team. Bigger players often don't feel like they should be wasting troops on helping bad players. Once this starts happening it often gets worse and worse till no one is helping anyone at all. A tribe without any coordination or teamwork what so ever ends up dying no matter how big the tribe is. Leadership can also make a big impact on how team coordination and morale works in a tribe though.

On that note though, family tribes used to be like 200+ players. On this world, you only have 35 max person tribes. Therefore having multiple tribes doesn't do as much damage as it would in previous worlds but it can still hurt team coordination overall. Basher and academy tribes can be a good thing though if the main doesn't lose focus by always trying to help out the basher/academy tribe instead of only focusing on themselves. Also of course you have to make sure you don't recruit so much that your better players get starved out of villages or farm early on.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I have to weigh in on a few points here.

Firstly,


You see guys, heartlessfool is the prime example of why grammar is SO important. He is understandable but his posts give me headaches trying to work out what he is saying, and at the end of the post I am upset with him even if I agree with what he is saying...

Just as a heads up, its against the forum rules to comment on spelling, punctuation and grammar. We must assume that if he writes with difficulty, he is probably not an English native, and so should be congratulated on the very good effort.

Wrong.

The thing is people like ODK think yeah the past is better but he must merge and creat the biggest family in th world so that there is no competition, then moans when wars end in a day and says why is this game not as good as the early worlds.

Play this game like it was ment to be played and it would be fun.

You obviously are very new to this game (1 year is shockingly new). The game has evolved and people have got a hell of a lot better at it, and with it they have adapted the attack Id's and so forth to make it harder. However, you seem to think all us old players pine for the old days. This is not the case, I do not miss having 15million points worth of villages all with 100's of incoming to tag (back before attack Id's were fully being exploited), and so tagging through 'train spotting'.

The game is meant to be played as an interactive game where diplomacy forms the key concept. If people wish to create families, it is their diplomatic strategy and there is evidence in favor and against it. However, making stupid claims that this is not how the game is meant to be played and is ruining the 'fun' of the game is utter bollocks.

To help you understand this, the fun of this game lies in three major elements.

1. The Most Important Factor: Meeting people, playing together and generally enjoying the community.
2. By perfecting little bits of technical skill and deploying knowledge that perhaps your opponents don't posses.
3. Enjoying the diplomatic and tribal element of the tribe system. Trying to create tribe loyalty, and a sense of tribal pride, whilst also juggling the broader inter tribal diplomatic considerations so as to not get gangbanged.

At no point do family tribes inhibit any of the major qualities, arguably they enhance the most important one, number one.

Family tribes got the bad reputation in the early days of Tribalwars because they "almost always" were mass recruiters trying to beat the member limit. It also allowed diplomacy talks to go along the lines of "we can be MORE than allies and work together in everything, so lets be considered a family." Since there was never a successful family tribe it was easy to bash them, and they harbored a lot of bad players/noble targets early on, it was frustrating trying to work around or through them.

I'm struggling to think of a world in which the winning tribe did not at some point have an 'academy/holding tribe or sister tribe'.

family tribes have killed all competition through recruitment then got big and started slaughtering tribes.
Family tribes ruin a war game but i also think these end game alliances and things are the same, this alot of the time exactly the same as a family tribe only trying to avoid the stigma attached.

This just is not the case. I have been in tribes of 10 members and faced off with big branch family tribes and won (Scion vs EZ family on w15 for those who played that world.) and I know other players that have done the same or bigger.

Its is the case and always will be, good players will beat crap players and number realistaclly won't make much difference if the better players are larger in terms of individual size (ie 10 members at 1 million points vs 60/120 members at anything from 50k to 1million.)

Points do not win wars, skill, co-ordination, and effort (getting up at 2am local time to snipe or send a train) are the winninjg components of this game. If you can make a family do it then the family will win, if you just mass recruit then you won't win.
 

Deleted User - 4669627

Guest
if a tribe wins a world with 150 members and another tribe wins their world with 10 members, obviously 1 is much more impressive
how is this complicated?
 

GodofLight

Guest
if a tribe wins a world with 150 members and another tribe wins their world with 10 members, obviously 1 is much more impressive
how is this complicated?

I disagree, the 10 man tribe would need to have a lot of allies to survive which would balance out the numbers.

I think family tribes can and only will work with a completely different leadership setup from the 'norm' and of course activity. as well as a good strategy mind
 

DeletedUser

Guest
it also would depend on the 10 men in the tribe.. I mean I have seen a few worlds where the #1 player has more points than the rank 3 tribe... etc
 

GOG the Deceiver

Guest
Lets not get too much into the specifics of what "10 men or women" may look like.

All things equal, 10 beating 150 is better kudos wise. 150 beating 10 is smarter, yet harder to coordinate (in a multi-tribe). In terms of fun, I would always prefer a tight-knit, small group of experts that can pillage and dominate an area. A massive social group all arguing where to go next... no so fun (IMO)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Well, is proximity the main cause for the hate on family tribes? What if a family of 2 premade tribes joined on opposite sides of the map. During all of start up they would more or less be seperate tribes, until they could meet up in the middle or around the rim. Would that ruin the fun for everyone else?
 

DeletedUser101947

Guest
1) The objective of this game is to win.

2) Strategies that win are good.


I would like everyone who are sharing their thoughts to please keep in mind the original post. You can argue to death on how much you hate or like family tribes or how impressive or not impressive it is; however that is not what I am trying to get opinions on.


I'm trying to get arguments for and against using the above parameters especially.
 

GodofLight

Guest
Well, is proximity the main cause for the hate on family tribes? What if a family of 2 premade tribes joined on opposite sides of the map. During all of start up they would more or less be seperate tribes, until they could meet up in the middle or around the rim. Would that ruin the fun for everyone else?

That would probably be one of the best strategies possible.....
 
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