Feedback Game Updates

DeletedUser117534

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Even wrapped it with pink packing paper and drew a heart on it with the words "from our lovely .net community... jk... they hate you now"

On a serious note, I can definitely see why a lot of people, if not all, are against this feature, so I've also made sure they are aware of this. But, in case this is not reversed, I am interested in hearing from you what makes this feature OP. I can read the hundreds of posts in this topic saying it is bad, but only 5-6 of them actually bring up valid and constructive feedback. Please note that when we send feedback to our development team, they also need argumentation. Just 'it sucks' isn't cutting it.

So I am begging you to be detailed in explaining why, even if you need to repeat what others said. What makes it so bad? Do you see a way that it could be improved (if not reverted) to make it less OP? Help us out!
Don’t take it personally mate as I have nothing against you but you’re the face of this company so you need to cope it.
I know you are trying your best to save their face, it’s your job to represent them professionally but stop the BS. Are you trying to tell us that the management behind the decision to make this update doesn’t know its own product and how it would potentially impact the game. You have tens of people working on the game and yet not one figured that it’s going to change the core mechanics that makes the game unpredictable and difficult that give people rush and keep them playing and spending money? Not one thought ‘oh let’s make a survey and talk to the gamers about it’ ? Reasons are simple: ignorance, corporate greed or both.

I’m not going to write a paper defending the old system. Right now we just want to test if they give a crap about players at all, if they decide to roll the update most of us will show them a finger in return.
 
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TheBeatConductor

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Even wrapped it with pink packing paper and drew a heart on it with the words "from our lovely .net community... jk... they hate you now"

On a serious note, I can definitely see why a lot of people, if not all, are against this feature, so I've also made sure they are aware of this. But, in case this is not reversed, I am interested in hearing from you what makes this feature OP. I can read the hundreds of posts in this topic saying it is bad, but only 5-6 of them actually bring up valid and constructive feedback. Please note that when we send feedback to our development team, they also need argumentation. Just 'it sucks' isn't cutting it.

So I am begging you to be detailed in explaining why, even if you need to repeat what others said. What makes it so bad? Do you see a way that it could be improved (if not reverted) to make it less OP? Help us out!
What makes it OP is that you can snipe everything equally easy. Even if the opponent gets a 2 ms anti snipe in it takes the same (tiny) amount to work to snipe it as just a regular 100 ms gap.
And since it takes literally 10 seconds to do its easy to pile a bunch of snipes up in a 1 ms gap.

Like @J3lacck says remove the ms feature. It'll still be a broken feature but atleast it will be still playable.

If you're gonna implement an OP defense feature like this at least balance it with a buff to attacking or don't bother at all. And I prefer you don't bother messing with the most essential part of the game at all like this without community voting.

I'm playing 3 worlds atm and if this feature goes through without any voting I'll be playing exactly 0. Thanks for wasting my time.

Not aimed at you ofc jaw jaw :)
 

.Yoda

Guest
What makes it bad:

My opinion of course.

1) it takes away the team work and activity level, whether that's by not working as a tribe to take sits for incoming or for having co players.
The friendship I've made with my co players wouldn't happen if I didnt need 1 with updates like this.

2) all the skill I've learned over the years(I'm not saying I'm the beat player ever) means it's all pointless the fun I've had defending thousands of Inc and 50/60 trains when you snipe like a boss and get it between the noble and anti snipe is amazing. That is no longer the case with the update.
I get the point that it makes a few new players will enjoy it but look at it from this point of view, if you play Soccer at the age of 4 you can kick a ball maybe just straight not very hard but as you get older you practice and learn new skills and you get better, when you get to 25 you can curl a ball over a wall and get it in the top corner(sometimes anyway) hence the sense of achievement when you score a blinder.
No imagine that someone comes along and gives a 4 year old the ability to score a worldy from a freekick 30 yards out on his first try.
Well all the sense of achievement and the fun of learning over time is gone.
And then the game dies cos nobody wants to see something anyone can do.

3) it makes attacking impossible you send your train and for example:
Nuke lands .050ms
Noble 1 lands .100 ms
Anti snipe lands .150ms
Noble 2 .200ms
Anti snipe 2 .250ms
Noble 3 .300ms
Anti snipe 3 .350ms
Noble 4 .400ms

With this update a defender can choose where he wants.
Could put 3DV to land at .099ms then my nobles and anti snipes are pointless and there is nothing I can do so how can I cap a village and there is no skill involved at all to cap or defend aka see point 2.

Please read that JawJaw
world 110 for example, ms is about 100ms each noble, theoretically speaking a noble train will take up 400ms, thats almost 50% chance of sniping the train if you sent a dv village and clicked it by chance on the same send second. wow much skill, much impressive skill, all jokes aside, if you call that skill then you probably playing the Paralympics of tribalwars lmao.

50/60 villages you cant simply send 3 full dv villages at each, thats saying youre trying to snipe with 180 dv villages, which is dumb unless youre tudadar and have 10x the attackers side, when 60 trains lands at the same time, its either snipe with one dv or half a dv, dont be stupid, be realistic.

lets say you do manage to sneak 1 dv in, what if i put 50 axe first noble then full nuuke 2nd noble? does that mean your full dv will vs my full nuke at 0 wall?
 

JawJaw

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Don't worry, I'm not taking anything personally so nobody needs to apologize :D . It 's just how it goes. Feedback needs to be gathered and I need to get in-depth info about what exactly isn't liked / find alternatives and solutions and forward it appropriately. :)
 

Aretas

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world 110 for example, ms is about 100ms each noble, theoretically speaking a noble train will take up 400ms, thats almost 50% chance of sniping the train if you sent a dv village and clicked it by chance on the same send second. wow much skill, much impressive skill, all jokes aside, if you call that skill then you probably playing the Paralympics of tribalwars lmao.

50/60 villages you cant simply send 3 full dv villages at each, thats saying youre trying to snipe with 180 dv villages, which is dumb unless youre tudadar and have 10x the attackers side, when 60 trains lands at the same time, its either snipe with one dv or half a dv, dont be stupid, be realistic.

lets say you do manage to sneak 1 dv in, what if i put 50 axe first noble then full nuuke 2nd noble? does that mean your full dv will vs my full nuke at 0 wall?
Only noobs only snipe 1 gap in a train. So if you are sending your shit full nuke in the second noble at any decent player you are probably getting wrecked. And the difference is that I can time anti-snipes for a regular train. So that they make it harder to snipe my trains. I can't realistically time anti-snipes if this feature goes through as people will be auto-sniping to the ms.
 

.Yoda

Guest
lets also say, youre at work or out for dinner and you need to send a snipe, you use this new feature and bam you snipe it, rather than staring at the screen all day, and playing your life away, why not make it easier for us to snipe and enjoy the game while we are out?

unfair advantage for those who no life the game since all they do is sit on pc, they also use the milisecond script just to snipe it.

would be good for phone uses to have the benefit to snipe aswell rather than missing it cause they dont get the privilege of using the milisecond script
 

MarcMadness

Guest
world 110 for example, ms is about 100ms each noble, theoretically speaking a noble train will take up 400ms, thats almost 50% chance of sniping the train if you sent a dv village and clicked it by chance on the same send second. wow much skill, much impressive skill, all jokes aside, if you call that skill then you probably playing the Paralympics of tribalwars lmao.

50/60 villages you cant simply send 3 full dv villages at each, thats saying youre trying to snipe with 180 dv villages, which is dumb unless youre tudadar and have 10x the attackers side, when 60 trains lands at the same time, its either snipe with one dv or half a dv, dont be stupid, be realistic.

lets say you do manage to sneak 1 dv in, what if i put 50 axe first noble then full nuuke 2nd noble? does that mean your full dv will vs my full nuke at 0 wall?
Mate have you ever player this game to the end??
Having 300 vills means you could have 180 DV 120 nukes so yes defending each train with 3DV can happen.
And if there is no skill why did you lose you village on 110??
And why does nobody want you?
Insults and your complete bullshit aside.
That's my opinion and tbh as it seems 200 others agree.
Your point is supported 3 people that I've noticed.

Stop talking shot and let others put there feedback
 

Fleezus Clyde

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Even wrapped it with pink packing paper and drew a heart on it with the words "from our lovely .net community... jk... they hate you now"

On a serious note, I can definitely see why a lot of people, if not all, are against this feature, so I've also made sure they are aware of this. But, in case this is not reversed, I am interested in hearing from you what makes this feature OP. I can read the hundreds of posts in this topic saying it is bad, but only 5-6 of them actually bring up valid and constructive feedback. Please note that when we send feedback to our development team, they also need argumentation. Just 'it sucks' isn't cutting it.

So I am begging you to be detailed in explaining why, even if you need to repeat what others said. What makes it so bad? Do you see a way that it could be improved (if not reverted) to make it less OP? Help us out!
The balance of the game has shifted to always favour the defender at literally every stage of the game.

Currently, Well-timed attacks are really the only way to out skill your opponents in a war. Even in late game when noble nukes are typically almost always used, defending against multiple incoming well timed nobles is an extremely difficult task, even with great sniping skills & good internet... it's always been a key feature of the game to separate the wheat from chaff so to speak.

With this update, you make defending an absolute laugh. Already with watchtowers & IG boosts, defending is so Overpowered and you want to give the ability to time defense to the millisecond to every player. Not only will this hurt new players, who will now have an additional difficult obstacle when attacking; you are handing players with the most PP & the most experienced players an extremely overpowered boost.... so now in late game when I'm facing 5 noble nukes all landing within 20ms - I'll have no issues shoving as many DVs as I want in perfect timing to block them. You've fundamentally broke attacking with this update as now defending is so easy, the game simply comes down to who has more troops... aka who farmed the most or spent the most PP.

And before you even mention it; adding a sister feature for timing attacks to the millisecond would even further break the game for the same reasons. It is not a feature that helps anyone really... you screw over new players in their ability to learn to time attacks as well as to snipe, in addition to giving a huge advantage to the biggest PP spenders & veteran players (if there are any left after this update that is).

Essentially to conclude, you are taking out one of the last skill required activities in TW & engaged/dedicated players want a challenge: you are taking that away... from everyone though.

What I suggest you do, is make a repeatable quest for sniping upon the conquering of your second village, in which a barb sends 4x 1 unit at your first village 100ms apart, and in order to complete the quest you must successfully snipe the train. This way new players have multiple chances to try their hand at sniping & we ensure the skill is taught to players instead of just holding their hand through the "hard" aka fun parts of the game. To make this a bit easier; I think if when sending supports, the game had a built in MS clock when sending - it would help familiarize new players with the fast pace of the game while not just giving them the ability to snipe anything at anytime.

I just feel you're ruining the game for most everyone who currently enjoys it to appease a potential mobile market that will have no interest in engaging a game that requires any skill.... it's just a bit disappointing I thought that's what you made TW2 for.
 

DeletedUser121412

Guest
Even wrapped it with pink packing paper and drew a heart on it with the words "from our lovely .net community... jk... they hate you now"

On a serious note, I can definitely see why a lot of people, if not all, are against this feature, so I've also made sure they are aware of this. But, in case this is not reversed, I am interested in hearing from you what makes this feature OP. I can read the hundreds of posts in this topic saying it is bad, but only 5-6 of them actually bring up valid and constructive feedback. Please note that when we send feedback to our development team, they also need argumentation. Just 'it sucks' isn't cutting it.

So I am begging you to be detailed in explaining why, even if you need to repeat what others said. What makes it so bad? Do you see a way that it could be improved (if not reverted) to make it less OP? Help us out!
Honestly the entire thing should be scrapped, lets be honest 5 minutes isn't a lot of time and therefore doesn't help anyone regardless and it comes down to setting the exact ms. I am 35 and started playing this game when I was 30. I have a newborn, a wife, and a job yet this game does not stress me at all and I have plenty of time to snipe and send ops without this feature. These people saying it helps older players are idiots, learn to manage your time better. The only thing this will accomplish is allowing players to schedule snipes from 5-6 different villages close together on a single village which makes defending far too easy even without the exact ms land time. Think of it this way, on more than one occasion I have had nobles coming in on me or a tribemate and had multiple snipe attempts avail less than 60 seconds apart meaning I had to snipe, cycle, snipe etc. Doing things like that are what keeps me playing, it provides a challenge I need to be interested in playing at all, if you bring this feature to all worlds players can just set the sends and forget about them. That takes all of the challenge out of it, a lot of players are like me and only play to be challenged so if you remove the challenge you remove our reason for sticking around.
 

.Yoda

Guest
Honestly the entire thing should be scrapped, lets be honest 5 minutes isn't a lot of time and therefore doesn't help anyone regardless and it comes down to setting the exact ms. I am 35 and started playing this game when I was 30. I have a newborn, a wife, and a job yet this game does not stress me at all and I have plenty of time to snipe and send ops without this feature. These people saying it helps older players are idiots, learn to manage your time better. The only thing this will accomplish is allowing players to schedule snipes from 5-6 different villages close together on a single village which makes defending far too easy even without the exact ms land time. Think of it this way, on more than one occasion I have had nobles coming in on me or a tribemate and had multiple snipe attempts avail less than 60 seconds apart meaning I had to snipe, cycle, snipe etc. Doing things like that are what keeps me playing, it provides a challenge I need to be interested in playing at all, if you bring this feature to all worlds players can just set the sends and forget about them. That takes all of the challenge out of it, a lot of players are like me and only play to be challenged so if you remove the challenge you remove our reason for sticking around.
Talking about challenges yet complaining that this new feature is to broken. If anything this should be a new challenge.

Lmaoo
 

Mintyfresh

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So i had like half a dozen people link me this thread/video last night but decied to hold off saying anything until this morning so i could properly consider all the implications of the proposed change.

I'd like to begin by saying that i appreciate where Inno is coming from with this change. It seems clearly targeted towards helping new or noob players and give them more of a fighting chance so to speak. The biggest hurdle to most new players is getting to the point where they are able to defend themselves and this will allow them to do so at a much earlier stages with no risk or cost or effort. I genuinely believe that the original purpose behind the change is benign and that inno have good intentions to some degree.

But as we all know

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Going with the premise that intent is to allow new players a better fighting chance to squeak through to the mid-game (and therefore increase player retention) the execution of this intent is unbelievably bad and ultimately self-defeating as i will explain later.

The crux of the problem here as many others have alluded to is it essentially removes any involvement and effort from the defender to snipe a train. With the new feature its just fire and forget and its guaranteed in its current state to be infinitely more effective than what you can do manually. Sniping is probably one of the more powerful tools available to someone defending against a noble train. The act of sniping is not hard obviously because its just hitting a certain button within a certain period of a second which anyone and everyone can do with even a minimal amount of practice in a vacuum. But there is something of an art to it. You can tell the difference easily between a bad sniper and a good sniper by the way they snipe and how consistent they are and how they work around anti-snipes and take into consideration other factors etc.

This feature automatically makes everyone a godlike sniper. From now on you will always be able to hit every snipe perfectly with zero effort at all times of day and in every situation. Antisnipes are now completely useless as you can just get your snipes to be 1 ms behind a noble every single time. You can snipe every single train every single time without having to actually do the act of sniping because you just que up your delayed support. In essence the skill ceiling just got literally halved because half the meta behind sniping is now redundant. Its no longer a guessing game where you try and work out what your opponent will do because half the pieces just got removed from the board. How someone places their antisnipes is a good metric for skill but no more.

This also additionally removes the satisfaction of doing a good job. Im not sure about others but i feel a bit of a rush when i time perfect snipes to hit a sub 10ms gap because thats not easy to do consistently. There's none of that anymore. Sniping becomes repetitive and stale and joyless as you remove all involvement to do with sniping and make it computer generated instead.

So what happens now that sniping is guaranteed to be perfectly done every time? People will primarily resort to one of two things:

a) Split trains
b) Noble nukes

Both of these are hard to deal with when done on a large scale due to various reasons. Split trains are manageable because its just a case of getting the snipes big enough to deal with the split nuke with the nobles but thats easier said than done because with enough split trains inc you often struggle to have the troop liquidity available to deal with it. Im talking mid-late game here with large fronts and nuke counts and noble counts etc. Split trains are much harder to deal with than regular trains because currently primary tool for defending is sniping so therefore by giving everyone guaranteed snipes it pushes everyone into split trains which makes sniping harder which defeats the object in the first place.

Secondly noble nukes are now much harder to deal with because often the best defence against them is to recap the noble nukes to save the village as it would often require too much defensive troop investment to kill them off. However with the ability to send timed def to land 1 ms after the last noble its going to be exponentially harder to do a successful recap. Obviously you should always be timing a pre-nuke to a recap to a village when defending but this makes it so much harder to do because the attacker can time as much defense as they want for free perfectly to land after their last noble. When you are defending on a large scale you often dont have a lot of available nukes just lying around for recaps. Whereas conversely the attacker often has available defensive troops because they are not defending currently. Now its basically a guaranteed cap if you do noble nukes properly with very little possible options to defend.

So in essence thanks to this change making everyone godlike snipers all that happens in the long run once you get past the early game is that you make defending harder. What im expecting will happen is that the early game period will be extended as it becomes much harder to cluster up thanks to low numbers of troops to be able to adequately deal with snipes. Then late-game becomes an extended slug-fest where everyone just slams noble nukes at each other over and over and over again as the sniping is now largely negated as a defending tool.

With the assumption that the original philosophy was to help new players learn to defend i can think of so many better ways to do that.

The obvious method would be to implement perhaps the ezsnipe script into the game and then how about simulate a noble train incoming via the questing system and then have the player practice defending that way. This gives everyone an equal footing and opportunity to defend themselves and retain their sense of enjoyment at defending successfully without removing the interaction between defender and defending.

If for some reason this feature has to be implemented because of whatever 'reasons' then it should be considerably toned down.

Removing the ability to set an exact MS but be able to hit a specific second and reducing the delay to 1 minute would mean that you still have to hit the right ms yourself but you have some leeway and opportunities to learn and practice. Something like that i could (grudgingly) accept i guess. It would be powerful without being overpowered

However should this go live without any changes at all then i dont think i will continue to play anymore. One of the reasons i enjoy TW is because of the scope of the possibilities within the game to attack/defend other players. Being able to exploit and out-think my opponents by taking advantages of subtle nuances is kinda what sets me apart from other players and allows me to get ahead (in my own inflated opinion anyway). Having a single feature arbitrarily invalidate half of game strategies is just too much for me to stomach.

Peace
 

Lyon

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put it this way Jaw Jaw.. what can an attacker once that feature is implemented do? sure sniping isnt hard, but with anti snipes we sure make it harder to snipe. and now the game itself is gonna snipe that without a problem? add that to watchtowers, morale and god knows what, are we literally going to be forced to hug?

i dont think we have to explain any further.. and the noobs that "dont know how to snipe", jesus you got the whole defending guides on google. just type in how to do defend and its going to throw you bunch of stuff and sniping tutorial is included.. people that dont want to learn arent your loyal costumers, they wont stay regardless of what feature you throw at them. WE ARE, we been here damn near a decade or some even more, but with this youre literally pushing us away.. its already hard enough to noble noobs with the morale (idk why morale has to be that low 6 months into n00bs playing time, why are you punishing us for playing and paying for this game?) and now youre going to make it even tougher for us...thank you for punishing your loyal base?

and for the n00bs saying its gonna be less time consuming. ok? youre still gonna have to be around wont you? so basically the same amount of time spent on this game, you just want it lazy..

guess its time to throw the whole account anyways was about to do that
 

El Bahattee

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Well this is one way to ruin the game.

Guys and girls, we have all been promoted to the Koreans. We all have a timing bot now.