Feedback Game Updates

[El Bahattee]

Well this is one way to ruin the game.

Guys and girls, we have all been promoted to the Koreans. We all have a timing bot now.

 

[JawJaw]

Thanks for your elaborate post @Mintyfresh ! I've made our development team aware of it. I really appreciate the effort you have made in explaining the issue and covering all possible consequences.

 

[DeletedUser121412]

So i had like half a dozen people link me this thread/video last night but decied to hold off saying anything until this morning so i could properly consider all the implications of the proposed change.

I'd like to begin by saying that i appreciate where Inno is coming from with this change. It seems clearly targeted towards helping new or noob players and give them more of a fighting chance so to speak. The biggest hurdle to most new players is getting to the point where they are able to defend themselves and this will allow them to do so at a much earlier stages with no risk or cost or effort. I genuinely believe that the original purpose behind the change is benign and that inno have good intentions to some degree.

But as we all know

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Going with the premise that intent is to allow new players a better fighting chance to squeak through to the mid-game (and therefore increase player retention) the execution of this intent is unbelievably bad and ultimately self-defeating as i will explain later.

The crux of the problem here as many others have alluded to is it essentially removes any involvement and effort from the defender to snipe a train. With the new feature its just fire and forget and its guaranteed in its current state to be infinitely more effective than what you can do manually. Sniping is probably one of the more powerful tools available to someone defending against a noble train. The act of sniping is not hard obviously because its just hitting a certain button within a certain period of a second which anyone and everyone can do with even a minimal amount of practice in a vacuum. But there is something of an art to it. You can tell the difference easily between a bad sniper and a good sniper by the way they snipe and how consistent they are and how they work around anti-snipes and take into consideration other factors etc.

This feature automatically makes everyone a godlike sniper. From now on you will always be able to hit every snipe perfectly with zero effort at all times of day and in every situation. Antisnipes are now completely useless as you can just get your snipes to be 1 ms behind a noble every single time. You can snipe every single train every single time without having to actually do the act of sniping because you just que up your delayed support. In essence the skill ceiling just got literally halved because half the meta behind sniping is now redundant. Its no longer a guessing game where you try and work out what your opponent will do because half the pieces just got removed from the board. How someone places their antisnipes is a good metric for skill but no more.

This also additionally removes the satisfaction of doing a good job. Im not sure about others but i feel a bit of a rush when i time perfect snipes to hit a sub 10ms gap because thats not easy to do consistently. There's none of that anymore. Sniping becomes repetitive and stale and joyless as you remove all involvement to do with sniping and make it computer generated instead.

So what happens now that sniping is guaranteed to be perfectly done every time? People will primarily resort to one of two things:

a) Split trains
b) Noble nukes

Both of these are hard to deal with when done on a large scale due to various reasons. Split trains are manageable because its just a case of getting the snipes big enough to deal with the split nuke with the nobles but thats easier said than done because with enough split trains inc you often struggle to have the troop liquidity available to deal with it. Im talking mid-late game here with large fronts and nuke counts and noble counts etc. Split trains are much harder to deal with than regular trains because currently primary tool for defending is sniping so therefore by giving everyone guaranteed snipes it pushes everyone into split trains which makes sniping harder which defeats the object in the first place.

Secondly noble nukes are now much harder to deal with because often the best defence against them is to recap the noble nukes to save the village as it would often require too much defensive troop investment to kill them off. However with the ability to send timed def to land 1 ms after the last noble its going to be exponentially harder to do a successful recap. Obviously you should always be timing a pre-nuke to a recap to a village when defending but this makes it so much harder to do because the attacker can time as much defense as they want for free perfectly to land after their last noble. When you are defending on a large scale you often dont have a lot of available nukes just lying around for recaps. Whereas conversely the attacker often has available defensive troops because they are not defending currently. Now its basically a guaranteed cap if you do noble nukes properly with very little possible options to defend.

So in essence thanks to this change making everyone godlike snipers all that happens in the long run once you get past the early game is that you make defending harder. What im expecting will happen is that the early game period will be extended as it becomes much harder to cluster up thanks to low numbers of troops to be able to adequately deal with snipes. Then late-game becomes an extended slug-fest where everyone just slams noble nukes at each other over and over and over again as the sniping is now largely negated as a defending tool.

With the assumption that the original philosophy was to help new players learn to defend i can think of so many better ways to do that.

The obvious method would be to implement perhaps the ezsnipe script into the game and then how about simulate a noble train incoming via the questing system and then have the player practice defending that way. This gives everyone an equal footing and opportunity to defend themselves and retain their sense of enjoyment at defending successfully without removing the interaction between defender and defending.

If for some reason this feature has to be implemented because of whatever 'reasons' then it should be considerably toned down.

Removing the ability to set an exact MS but be able to hit a specific second and reducing the delay to 1 minute would mean that you still have to hit the right ms yourself but you have some leeway and opportunities to learn and practice. Something like that i could (grudgingly) accept i guess. It would be powerful without being overpowered

However should this go live without any changes at all then i dont think i will continue to play anymore. One of the reasons i enjoy TW is because of the scope of the possibilities within the game to attack/defend other players. Being able to exploit and out-think my opponents by taking advantages of subtle nuances is kinda what sets me apart from other players and allows me to get ahead (in my own inflated opinion anyway). Having a single feature arbitrarily invalidate half of game strategies is just too much for me to stomach.

Peace

I would like to add to this if you're going to roll this feature out at all then roll it out like you do other features such as wt etc in worlds. Put it on only certain worlds so players that like this feature can happily play it and you don't alienate 90% of your loyal player base. If you force this on all players you will end your game completely, if you want it available for new player then implement it on only certain worlds as an option just like churches, wts, speed etc. You will get far less blowback. Do not get me wrong I still think whoever created this feature should be immediately fired and its completely idiotic but if I had the option to not play on a world with it I would be less likely to quit because of it. @JawJaw

 

[AkiBrat]

Even wrapped it with pink packing paper and drew a heart on it with the words "from our lovely .net community... jk... they hate you now"

On a serious note, I can definitely see why a lot of people, if not all, are against this feature, so I've also made sure they are aware of this. But, in case this is not reversed, I am interested in hearing from you what makes this feature OP. I can read the hundreds of posts in this topic saying it is bad, but only 5-6 of them actually bring up valid and constructive feedback. Please note that when we send feedback to our development team, they also need argumentation. Just 'it sucks' isn't cutting it.

So I am begging you to be detailed in explaining why, even if you need to repeat what others said. What makes it so bad? Do you see a way that it could be improved (if not reverted) to make it less OP? Help us out!

Innogames, Developers, Big boy chief of staff. Here's my thorough response to "Times support" implementation to this one-time excellence of a game.

We'll start of by going through why this game has been having success. Yes it's gotten new players, lost some, other come back. That's what happens to strategy games, they're not this "high octaine" game that are thriving today. Tribalwars MAINLY and yes, underlined because this is important. Tribalwars mainly runs on oldschool TW fanatics that have been around since the early years, people that come back to the game and join worlds now and then to play with their fellow mates and against their favorite enemies. New players rarley come by by themselves to strategy games like this, mostly others that play get them in to the game and show them why this game is so good as it is. Anyway enough of this part, I just want you to remember that you have to respect and take your hard-core- old- schoolers- high PP spending veterans seriously if we get this furious about a change.

Let's take the Church or Watchtower as examples here. My opinion and I am certain I share the same thought as a high percentage of us TW addicts that those implementations are FINE, some love em, some hate them can't make everyone happy right? Although it brings some change to the game, change of strategies, it's fun and yet again, it's a fine implementation because every world is not the same. Even the smithy "levels" bring other tactics to the playing field, again it's not in every world, people adapt and play a world if the settings suit them.

A very important notice here is that these additional features in a game are STRATEGY focused, they effect gameplay, they force people to play a little bit different which is good, otherwise it would get boring after 100 worlds of playing the same world setting. NOW let me get in to why this "timed support" is really bad, firstly it narrows the skill-gap between experienced players and new closer down the success ladder. Learning how to time support, snipe nobles etc is all planning and proper excecution made by one player. One player that has taken the time and patience to learn it. That thing you would be taking away from us, learning that is not hard, it just takes commitment. This makes a new player the best noble sniper out there, it's not even a competition? It's just set by keyboard strokes and that's it, one train sniped.

This game has always been about strategy and well excecuted team efforts, now you've given a "noob" a gun to a swordfight.

Careful with change, change is good when they're measured, this is clearly not well thought. Yes everyone is bursting out but you have to see it as a negative vibe. Me and others will give you the proper response to this awful change.

Why is it "OP"? - Because you don't need to be online certain times to save yourself or a buddy of yours, you just type in some timestamps, EVEN MILISECONDS? Will you implement "Timed Attacker" aswell then? Will every attack and noble snipe his on the exact same milisecond? This is basically a bot. Inactivity increases, skill means less, you lose players, you lose PP-spenders and you lose respect. If you really want to try it, do it on 2 worlds, NOT 1, 2 and mark my words that the second world-release will be a total flop, probably even the first one. People will be curious and probably try it and realize that it's something ridicilous and it's not something that is "Tribalwars". We will boycott.

Final thing, you have to measure curiousity and implementation by stats, Q&A's and other interests where the community has a word, that way you'll get better response than just releasing a scandal.

 

[Lyon]

or just make a world with 20 barbs per player and allow us to have farming bots, market bots etc.. if the whole plan is to make it less time consuming

 

[DeletedUser121855]

at least we all know what cancer looks like now

 

[DeletedUser121412]

at least we all know what cancer looks like now

You mean like mcdaddy?

 

[The Roman Empire]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It has been forwarded

Thank you JawJaw

 

[DeletedUser123790]

Never seen so many cry babies in my life. Especially fleezus clyde. You're one of the players in the game that spends probably the most money on the game yet you're complaining about how this takes away from skill. Bro you legit have skill in spending money. Tudadar profits in PP every world he plays so he has that huge balance of PP yet you're able to dump money in the game to even beat him lol. Yikes buddy. $$$$$$ is all I can say about you.

Now on to the serious point. This update opens TribalWars into a huge market as well as opens up users to relieve stress and time. Right now there are barely any new players joining the game, rather only the same individuals playing every world. Not being able to adapt to change or not willing to accept change is what is killing this game. No new players will be joining, whilst it's the same old cry babies playing every world.

People need to understand what's best for the game. The older generation has aged and has less time, whereas the newer generation of people all use mobile phones. For new players to actually play the game, the game has to focus its attention to the mobile version of TribalWars since this is in all honesty the only way for new users to join in this generation. Phones are easily accessible. Students in school can play TribalWars on their phones. Adults can check their phones at work.

Implementing a feature into the game that helps to assist mobile users to play the game may not be a bad thing. The feature itself as some claim is a "bot". People are claiming it to be impossible to be an attacker but in reality is that not just an excuse for your lack of confidence in yourself? If you are good at the game you will be able to adapt to game metas and still continue to be the best.

 

[DeletedUser121412]

Never seen so many cry babies in my life. Especially fleezus clyde. You're one of the players in the game that spends probably the most money on the game yet you're complaining about how this takes away from skill. Bro you legit have skill in spending money. Tudadar profits in PP every world he plays so he has that huge balance of PP yet you're able to dump money in the game to even beat him lol. Yikes buddy. $$$$$$ is all I can say about you.

Now on to the serious point. This update opens TribalWars into a huge market as well as opens up users to relieve stress and time. Right now there are barely any new players joining the game, rather only the same individuals playing every world. Not being able to adapt to change or not willing to accept change is what is killing this game. No new players will be joining, whilst it's the same old cry babies playing every world.

People need to understand what's best for the game. The older generation has aged and has less time, whereas the newer generation of people all use mobile phones. For new players to actually play the game, the game has to focus its attention to the mobile version of TribalWars since this is in all honesty the only way for new users to join in this generation. Phones are easily accessible. Students in school can play TribalWars on their phones. Adults can check their phones at work.

Implementing a feature into the game that helps to assist mobile users to play the game may not be a bad thing. The feature itself as some claim is a "bot". People are claiming it to be impossible to be an attacker but in reality is that not just an excuse for your lack of confidence in yourself? If you are good at the game you will be able to adapt to game metas and still continue to be the best.

If they implement this and lose all those veterans youre saying can't change then their new player base won't matter. TW will cease to exist due to low player base even with your "new players" if they implement this on every world instead of making it an option tw will end. That simple

 

[DeletedUser121855]

I play mobile quite a bit and i have been playing tribal wars for 12 years and users being on mobile should not be a logical excuse for destroying the skill of sniping, anti-sniping and possibly recapping depending on how much defense people are timing to the same milisecond. Any mobile user with any skill should be able to snipe trains and depending on skill recap as well although i will say iphone users have a clear advantage over android mobile users because of the app layout.

However, anyone can download the google chrome app to their phone and use any script or game feature they could on a pc on mobile, so you can make the snipe tables and snipe or plan recaps/backtimes. This feature i dont believe will draw new players, it will draw players who have played in the past who think they will have a better chance but their lack of skill will eventually become apparent in how they use the feature as well as how they defend when noble nukes come and they can no longer snipe players with skill who have out grown them with pp and time lots of support 1 ms after. Your eliminating sniping, anti sniping and recapping at some level.

 

[JawJaw]

Hey everyone!

Yesterday we announced the changelog for version 8.190, and with it came information about the new delayed support feature being introduced to the game. The update was planned to release on Monday, November 11.

Since then, we of course realized you aren’t quite happy with this feature in its current state. We – the Tribal Wars team – appreciate our close relationship with you, our players, and we’re very proud of it - but this time we might have missed the mark. We heard your criticism loud and clear, and we want to work with you and rethink this feature from the ground up.

We decided to not include the delayed support feature in next week’s release and we have no plans bringing this feature into the game in its current state.

To help you understand why we were planning it in the first place, we would like to share our reasoning why we felt the delayed support feature might have been an interesting addition for all players.


As we all know, support for incoming noble trains is essential for high level players. When we added the option to send noble trains as a full feature back in 8.35 in 2015, we already made the process easier to understand for new players, and easier to execute for everyone who knows what they’re doing. After many years and uses of this feature, we did notice however, that defending against noble trains is still very difficult. While many players are rightfully proud of having mastered these tactics, new players or even those with less time still have a lot of trouble with both planning and successfully executing support moves for incoming trains. And, of course, some players utilize external support and tools, which could be a barrier to players unaware that they exist.

We not only planned to make this a bit easier for players who are still learning the game, but also to help high level and experienced players to execute their strategies with less hassle. They could focus on their defensive tactics instead of a timer near the keyboard, and there would be way less need resorting to external tools or scripts.

However, while we would love to talk to you about a different implementation of these ideas, your arguments made it pretty clear: In its current form, it won’t work as flawless as we intended. We are eager to hear more of your thoughts about this issue, so please continue giving us your opinions about this idea. Be assured: All your criticism, your suggestions and thoughts will be forwarded to the Tribal Wars dev team, and maybe together we can come up with an alternative version everyone can enjoy.

Thank you very much for your passionate feedback! We hope we’ll see you around for more years of Tribal Wars!

Kind regards,
Your Tribal Wars Team

 

[DeletedUser116724]

Let’s get one thing straight for all the people who seem to be screaming about this improving mobile play. Sniping from mobile is no more difficult than sniping from a PC. Phone are bloody fast. And there’s not many people with a 4 year old mobile phone. Many have a 4 year old pc. Invariably mobiles lag less than pc. I know many players who choose to snipe from mobile because it’s more consistent.

Anyway, two other points.

I can feel the community’s fear not just about this update, but about where it will lead. It’s not a far stretch for us to see inno adding this to the ‘request troops’ feature. Where one can just go to request troops, and request 40 packets to all land on the same ms. This is in essence what has just happened except one has to online longer to achieve this.

Second point.

You can’t have one without the other. Why would inno only add this for the defender? I mean why can’t the attacker have the same option? Buffs are already stacked in favor of defenders. Pali is stacked in favor of defenders. WT is in favor of defenders. Request troops is for defenders. Probably 70-80% of updates are done with helping defenders.

Why are you so overly concerned with helping people defend and worried about the time saved for defending? Do people attacking not want an easier life too?

I mean, I hate this update and am quitting because of it. But if this is really about quality of life and saving people time as some people seem to be alluding to, then don’t just do it for defending. Do it for everyone.

All this does is make life WORSE for people who are running an op and hoping to noble a pile of vills in one sitting.

 

[DeletedUser116724]

Thanks to JawJaw for listening to the community.

 

[DeletedUser121972]

We, the Dutch community, share your thoughts and will support the .net community on this utter bullshit update. Its simply outrageous and should not be implemented.

 

[Jeffrey Woods]

Thank you very much JawJaw,
you proved me wrong and prolly many of us wrong, you really care for us. #Respect

 

[JawJaw]

After the statement posted by me above:

.

I invite you all to participate in a constructive feedback session here:

Open Discussion - Alternative solutions to delayed support feature

Hi valued members of the community The delayed support feature as displayed here in this post was announced yesterday and then thanks to considerable community feedback it was fortunately cancelled as per this post here. However the core issues that has been raised by the development team as...

forum.tribalwars.net

Thanks again for everything! We really appreciate the feedback you have given us!

 

[Fleezus Clyde]

Never seen so many cry babies in my life. Especially fleezus clyde. You're one of the players in the game that spends probably the most money on the game yet you're complaining about how this takes away from skill. Bro you legit have skill in spending money. Tudadar profits in PP every world he plays so he has that huge balance of PP yet you're able to dump money in the game to even beat him lol. Yikes buddy. $$$$$$ is all I can say about you.

Now on to the serious point. This update opens TribalWars into a huge market as well as opens up users to relieve stress and time. Right now there are barely any new players joining the game, rather only the same individuals playing every world. Not being able to adapt to change or not willing to accept change is what is killing this game. No new players will be joining, whilst it's the same old cry babies playing every world.

People need to understand what's best for the game. The older generation has aged and has less time, whereas the newer generation of people all use mobile phones. For new players to actually play the game, the game has to focus its attention to the mobile version of TribalWars since this is in all honesty the only way for new users to join in this generation. Phones are easily accessible. Students in school can play TribalWars on their phones. Adults can check their phones at work.

Implementing a feature into the game that helps to assist mobile users to play the game may not be a bad thing. The feature itself as some claim is a "bot". People are claiming it to be impossible to be an attacker but in reality is that not just an excuse for your lack of confidence in yourself? If you are good at the game you will be able to adapt to game metas and still continue to be the best.

I haven't spent a cent mate - you are aware of PP farming and coplayers yeah? Or have you not gotten to page 2 of actually playing this game yet...

I really don't know why a player who's probably never had 2 villages is acting like this is gonna be a game changer for them.... only in the sense it will make the majority of skilled players leave but I bet you anything you'll still get rimmed before 2 villages because you're rubbish & as weve established on W110 you're untouchable for recruitment to any tribe, so why do you even need this feature ?

Let the grownups do the talking you whingey little biscuit.

PS @JawJaw Since apparently I spend the most money on the game according to his supreme genius Einstein here so doesn't that mean my opinion should count like 100x in innos mind

 

[Deleted User - 10770065]

I have an alternative. Come out with a new stackable item called “Snipe” that allows you to do said feature. $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[I-AM-GROOT]

I heard about this and had to come check it out myself because I didn’t believe it. Honestly Innogames should be ashamed and really listen to the feedback from the community that they’ve built over the years. If they don’t then they 100% deserve what is coming when everyone whose still playing decides to quit.


Also for the people who are saying people are crybabies, a huge chunk of the game is the skill of defending/sniping etc

Maybe learn to read and you’ll see they already did.