Feedback World 102

Mintyfresh

Skilled Soldier 2018
Tribal Wars Team
Does the separation of the individual premium features (something i havent seen before personally) imply that for future worlds some of these will be active and some will be inactive?
 

JawJaw

Administrator
Tribal Wars Team
Community Management
Does the separation of the individual premium features (something i havent seen before personally) imply that for future worlds some of these will be active and some will be inactive?
For regular worlds no. For 150 perhaps, but for HP definitely. Note that this is just the way I am used to announcing worlds. I noticed previous management didn't do it this elaborate. So the announcement isn't implying any future changes, it is just how I do it to give a larger insight in the settings. :)
 

Morty

New Member
For regular worlds no. For 150 perhaps, but for HP definitely. Note that this is just the way I am used to announcing worlds. I noticed previous management didn't do it this elaborate. So the announcement isn't implying any future changes, it is just how I do it to give a larger insight in the settings. :)
I'm not too sure if that's a joke or not :( Please tell me it is!

Every 50 worlds is just ludicrous... Quite frankly I'd be surprised if there are still people playing in 50 worlds time at this rate.

Is it really that unprofitable for Inno to release a non premium world every few months? Hell, just release a non prem world and a prem world at the same time! I know so many players that came back for world 100 because it's no PP. What if word got out that TW was going back to its roots, people may actually start to play again, and perhaps you'd maintain players.
 

ALessonInPointWhoring

Contributing Poster
It's not a joke, there's only a new world every few months period. TW isn't going back to its roots because the game is more profitable now than it was back then.
 

DocJunior25

Non-stop Poster
World 100 will be my last it seems I am sick and tired of being taken for granted by inno I have given them a ton of money over ten years and they dont seem to care what I think. I will miss the friends I have made here but I am tired of having advanced premium worlds where a barb is nobled before bp is up and then to find out I got to wait 48 more worlds to get one I enjoy playing??? 15 worlds was bad enough. Oh HP is going to have no hauls and no pay to win..........So its not the same. Start listening to your community or get ready to retire the game because the community is sick of it
 

ALessonInPointWhoring

Contributing Poster
Except that the game is more profitable now than it was before said features were added, and profit margins are all that truly matter for a company. Your personal enjoyment is moot. There's also no way you spent a "ton" on worlds without advanced premium features.

200 prem a month, 230 with FA, 400 with AM.

Buy 7000 for $79.99.

Average monthly cost $4.57. Not a ton. Not even close.
 
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mch123

Well-Known Member
There's also no way you spent a "ton" on worlds without advanced premium features.

Average monthly cost $4.91. Not a ton. Not even close.
I am sick and tired of being taken for granted by inno I have given them a ton of money over ten years and they dont seem to care what I think.
In no part did he say specifically on "worlds without advanced premium features". He's been playing for over 10 years, that's potentially 120 months at your $4.91 cost. $589.20 from 1 players and he very well could have spent money for the advanced features at some point as well. Just because he hates those options doesn't mean he hasn't used them. I fall into this category too.

The issue isn't the specific amount, it's the lack of care.
 

ALessonInPointWhoring

Contributing Poster
Whether he has spent over $4.57 a month isn't actually relevant to the fact that he thinks he shouldn't spend over $4.57.

(I had said $4.91 above initially, but I was counting FA and AM as separate things when FA is part of AM.)

$4.57 is peanuts. $4.57 would result in the game shutting down immediately.

216 players on W92
357 players on W96
988 players on W97
2847 players on W99
4906 players on W100
9843 players on W101.

Let's say half buy premium (it's probably closer to 1/10 on the newer worlds as a lot of people don't buy premium at startup, whereas at late game many more do, but I'm being super, super, generous).

That's 19,157 players, half paying for premium and AM is $43,749.

I'm sure that'll pay for the costs to run six worlds, pay for three community managers, 8 in-office employees, and leave lots of extra profit for the CEO's.

Wait, it won't? It probably wouldn't even pay all the employees salaries, let alone the huge overhead for the servers? Well, damn, that sucks.
 
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mch123

Well-Known Member
That's 19,157 players, half paying for premium and AM is $43,749
That's $525k revenue per year. That is based on the most cost effective method of which few are actually going to implement. The volume would have been higher in the past as well.

In a microtransaction world, it is more like £10 ($13.35) a month for UK players like me. That's $118,950 at the other extreme of your formula. $1.4M revenue a year.

I posted in the w100 forum about this. If you got $1 (on average) from the 35k-40k player base using any number of other income methods and simple premium features, you'd make $480k revenue a year. Take out P2W, make the game fun, competitive and new player friendly so that the player base could grow again, get it to 70k/80k and that would make $1M revenue.

This game can be run on a budget like that. The above is a theoretical example that has plenty of flexibility in it to do better. The biggest overheads are staff, office and, maybe, carrying other bad products they have developed.

I'm fully aware Innogames is here to make profit, it's more hard/complex to change when the current model is adequate from their perspective, and won't change unless something extreme happens. But it doesn't mean we as players should just accept that though.

Also $5 might not be a lot to us in our developed UK, US, (most) EU countries but not every country and everyone can afford it just to play the game. Players are a big part of the content in this game so excluding them isn't a great business model - as we've seen by the games decline and constant crying over how small the worlds are now.
 

the nemesis123

Well-Known Member
Lets be honest, the vast majority of players do not pay for premium and account manager, they get premium by selling on the market. Otherwise a lot of them would not have premium accounts. 1% of the playerbase counts for the vast majority of TW revenue, hence they cater towards them. You and I, we are not their customer.

I haven't bought PP since P2W comes out and why would you when you can get it from the people who spend to get rank 1 at startup?
 

mch123

Well-Known Member
With a revenue of more than 160 million EUR and 400 employees from 30 nations, InnoGames is Germany’s leading developer and provider of mobile and online games. The company is best known for Forge of Empires, Elvenar and Tribal Wars. InnoGames’ complete portfolio encompasses six live games and several mobile titles in production. After ten years of consecutive growth, InnoGames’ revenues increased by 24 percent in 2017 and are set to further soar with the recently launched mobile version of Elvenar and upcoming titles like Warlords of Aternum.
- https://press.innogames.com/innogames-continues-production-from-duesseldorf-in-hamburg,
June 2018

Please disregard any of my comments about money. Had never seen actual numbers before but this just puts it all back in perspective now. They have more than enough and are never going to commit to a product like TW1 with so many other products clearly doing much better in terms of revenue. I thought getting their attention was almost impossible before reading this. :-/

Roll on the day they close it down so I can cut all ties and move on with my life - maybe someone could buy the product from them then and make the economics work in such a way that it could be restored to its former glory or reach its ultimate potential.

I still think TW could have a place in Innogames portfolio for making profits under a different model. They just have zero incentive to do it.

Sighhh.... time to look at alternative options more seriously.
 

ALessonInPointWhoring

Contributing Poster
That was my point, I'd seen their yearly revenue for previous years, and knew it increased after the premium features were added - even with a declining playerbase. They're not going to revert to a business model that'd make them $500k - $1.5 million a year when the current business model makes them 20x that.
 

mch123

Well-Known Member
That was my point, I'd seen their yearly revenue for previous years, and knew it increased after the premium features were added - even with a declining playerbase. They're not going to revert to a business model that'd make them $500k - $1.5 million a year when the current business model makes them 20x that.
I just think a lot of us look at in context of just TW though. I hadn't seen any numbers and no one was stating it like this. I actually thought their other products were smaller and worse because they were less PvP competitive (my own opinion from looking at them in a limited way).

I'd still love to know the specific numbers that TW1 is doing though, just for perspective.
 

the nemesis123

Well-Known Member
"Players spent a combined 600m hours playing the six live games in the company's portfolio last year, which included titles such as Tribal Wars and Forge of Empires. In fact revenues for the former are now six times higher than in 2007."

An interesting snippet from an article for you. P2W I tell you ain't going away.
 

mch123

Well-Known Member
"Players spent a combined 600m hours playing the six live games in the company's portfolio last year, which included titles such as Tribal Wars and Forge of Empires. In fact revenues for the former are now six times higher than in 2007."

An interesting snippet from an article for you. P2W I tell you ain't going away.
Definitely interesting, ty.

I found another image that said revenue was ~2M in 2007 so that would mean 12M now. Peak users on TW was about March 2008. I wonder if they have combined TW2 into that though? They may not have but I'd be interested to find out.
 

the nemesis123

Well-Known Member
You can A, get 10+ times as much revenue (given there were 10x as many players in 2007) or you can B put out a non-P2W world. Tbh its surprising there is one out.