Flashback to the North

canthandlethatass

Non-stop Poster
Currently the consensus seems to be that WET has missed its best shot at winning the world by not doing enough damage to OBEY when OBEY was weak with Defy and Apex in their backline.

Let's take a moment and think back to when Wet and Escape hadn't merged yet, Wet was doing succesful ops on VAPE and Escape was busy in the north.
WET was putting a lot of pressure onto VAPE so indirectly to OBEY but Escape failed to put the same pressure on OBEY in the north which gave them the time to stabilize the area and fortify it.

The NE was a disputed area between OBEY and Escape for a while, there was no rim dominance by either tribe early on and the tribes which were in the rim at that point were WLDD, Apex, Wise and AMB.

A map of made around the time we're discussing here.

Edict. was about the same as Apex which formed back shortly after some players moved to OBEY


AMB sided with OBEY which gave them control over part of k46 while WLDD chose to merge into Escape after a failed attempt of Incoming impact to merge Apex and WLDD backed by a NAP with OBEY. Wise and APEX stayed neutral for the time being.
Both sides poached players in Wise and Apex, king gwanggaeto was the first to jump ship to Escape, however Seok, Simplyphysics and Superdog chose to join OBEY. This caused K46 to be under control of OBEY with Apex in the rim and K35 fully under control of Escape and ally Mehh with K36 and the adjacent area as neutral territory.
On the map you see the tribe Me? in white which existed of Britney Spears who later joined back into Escape and tried pushing the OBEY front.

The players in that northern area at the time were mostly Tokahontas, Natticus, Simplyphysics, Seok, and Superdog.
With Escape to one side and Apex in the rim this OBEY cluster was weak, especially because Seok was on the front while being solo and not the most experienced player.
Tokahontas, who had a very very fast start to the world funded by pp was slowing down around that time with mostly nobling barbs while not attacking many enemies.
While Natticus was effective vs Apex at the start, the original player Nate went mia which left the account to be somewhat inactive.
This meant that if Escape were to get Wise and Apex on their side and hit this weak cluster successfully the north of OBEY would potentially crumble and they would lose all control over K45 and K46 which was a real possibility with Jake and Trex on the front line, however this never happened for multiple reasons.

It took Escape too long to create a solid frontline and they had issues with not having their front account be active enough, but imo the biggest factor in this was Wise.
With Wise having control over K36 and a cluster in K46 meant they had a front with the backline of the superdog account, together with Apex and Escape that would have meant close to 360 degrees front for Superdog and Seok which they would never have survived.
Wise continued to stall making a decision on who they were to side with.

Escape tried doing ops on Seok and the Superdog account however the first try had minor success.
Eventually the Seok account went inactive, red at one point and was unreachable so it had to be internalled.
While being fully on the frontline and in a difficult spot for OBEY they started the force internal one day before an Escape op landed they still managed to keep over 80% of the Seok villages within the tribe which should have never had as much succes as it had imo.

Wise continued to stall while making both sides believe that they would side with them which caused them to stay neutral for way longer than they should have.
During this time Escape tried hitting Northern OBEY members once again but the timings were off and not even half of the tribe participated in the ops which meant that it was possible to defend even without a backline with Apex, Defy and RBH still being around, would Escape have done a full tribal op like WET did they would certainly have had more success however this never happened.

Eventually the largest Wise members joined Obey and this came to a shock to the coalition.
Most of these players weren't necessarily the best but they were active and willing to learn, at least that's what it looked like at the start.
When Escape started opping players such as Ramcem, Ceazar and Taranflame they quickly imploded and most caps went to Escape however it took time to break and noble this accounts, time which was used by OBEY to clear backline tribes which freed up more and more def to send to the frontline with WET and Escape to stop their pushes.

By the time Escape was able to take out these ex-Wise players it had taken them too long to push the front far enough to successfully hit key accounts such as Tokahontas, Superdog and Natticus and OBEY had enough def to now send to the front to slow down the push and eventually force a stalemate in the north.

Due to the diplomacy and certain accounts choosing OBEY over Escape meant that 2 months later after many successful ops of Escape the front with OBEY was still around the corner of K45/K36 so effectively barely any ground was gained, just villages.

With caps slowing down for Escape and WET and OBEY starting to put more and more pressure on them because Defy and Apex were getting pushed back further and further the Escape ops seemed to just stop, barely any efforts to execute a proper op were made in the last weeks before the Escape/WET merge and it seemed like more and more internal drama was going on inside the tribe, which eventually lead to the position they're in today.

Would Wise have decided differently the whole world might have been different...
 

loscaldzar

Well-Known Member
As someone from the SimplyPhysics account (no, I was not involved in the whole jumping ship from Obey to Apex, the account owner kicked off all the co-players/changed the password when he quit and joined Apex to try to screw everyone over equally) I can say our hold in the north was truly tenuous for the longest time. The north was probably Obey's weakest front, and that seemed to go unnoticed by Escape. You've mentioned many of the factors, but I'll add one more.

SuperDog is of course a great account, but would have struggled if they had been completely surrounded by enemies. Seok was solo and inexperienced and the SimplyPhysics account was in a precarious position from the beginning of December until February (which I don't think most people understood how bad our situation was, otherwise escape would have op'ed us along with Apex to get rid of us).

When I first joined the SimplyPhysics account, we had nearly 80-90% of our villages within a 2 hour noble range of enemy villages and that was the main reasons I was brought on to the SimplyPhysics account (to run defense). Furthermore, our villages were very spread out- we spanned nearly the entire continent left to right with just 45 villages (had nearly a 16-18 hour travel time end to end). I think in a three month span we got support 2 or 3 times from other players (not because people weren't willing to send defense, it was just that nothing would ever arrive in time). One was a snipe from SuperDog, one was support from bendyut (who was in wise at the time), and one was a snipe from Nest we Obey (I'm not joking about getting support literally 3 times).

One solid op, with close range nobles, could have brought down our account at that point as it would have been nearly impossible for any ally to get defense to us (and we had no stacks from the rest of Obey since we weren't frontline with Escape). Very bad position to be in. That was a huge missed opportunity by both Escape and Apex to get a solid foothold in that continent. Thankfully the few ops Apex threw at us in the start were relatively poor attempts and I managed to hold onto all of our villages :). We were allowed to gain a strong standing and shrunk our front with Apex down to only 15 or 20% of our villages being within a 2 hour noble train and to have a massive backline, which enabled us to keep chewing away at Apex (at least before the account owner went off the rails).

It is likely that if the SimplyPhysics account had fallen, Wise would have been more likely to side with Escape. I know several members in Wise who might have broken off and stuck with Obey, but I believe the vast majority of Wise leadership and accounts just wanted to join which ever side seemed safer to be on, hence why they played neutral so long. That would have put immense pressure on the SuperDog account to hold the north from Escape, Ex-Wise, and Apex behind them.

Altogether, Escape did miss a huge chance. Our hold in the north was fairly weak for a long time. I don't think Apex realized how weak we were for the longest time but in the end we managed to hold our front and to quickly become one of the top accounts points wise and ODA.
 
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blckdrgn1

Still Going Strong
Ive been on tokahontas since pretty early on... our front with britney was only lightly self stacked for a long time. We would unload all of our defenses to seok or superdog or natticus when they were under attack. When britney started taking barbs inside natticus and stacking them very high for the time, I was worried that they would devour natticus with short range trains after a long range carpet bombing from escape. Luckily we never had to face that situation :) That is the reason I started barb nobling the front so britney couldnt take any more without alerting us. They were under the impression we were turtles and our front would be stacked up but that was far from the truth haha
 
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rickyson1

Contributing Poster
Ive been on tokahontas since pretty early on... our front with britney was only lightly self stacked for a long time. We would unload all of our defenses to seok or superdog or natticus when they were under attack. When britney started taking barbs inside natticus and stacking them very high for the time, I was worried that they would devour natticus with short range trains after a long range carpet bombing from escape. Luckily we never had to face that situation :) That is the reason I started barb nobling the front so britney couldnt take any more without alerting us. They were under the impression we were turtles and our front would be stacked up but that was far from the truth haha
heh yeah even after we took all those barbs our defensive plans consisted almost entirely of just making sure to leave most of the frontline troops at home
 

DJBrotoe

Still Going Strong
A lot of what if's in this scenario... The fact remains that at no real point in this world was Obey in serious trouble. Yes we had issues with allies losing their war and some internal issues but other than that the core of Obey did remain strong... If Escape had of put excessive pressure on the north Obey accounts you may have seen leadership look for diplomacy on the rim to shore up the front. It wouldn't be a stretch to think that Defy or Apex would consider diplomacy with Obey considering they were consistently losing ground with little to no help from WET or Escape.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
I honestly don't think it would have mattered. Even in the hypothetical scenario that Simplyphysics, Natticus and Superdog who I believe were the three main frontliners were broken, I think Obey would have probably still won. If you break through them, you then have to break through War-Peace, Tokahontas, Venomous Retribution and GranTorino*. If you break through them you have to break through Mezonis, my own account, Obone and Love Apocalypse.

It would have been an uphill battle either ways.
 

sondog11

Active Member
I honestly don't think it would have mattered. Even in the hypothetical scenario that Simplyphysics, Natticus and Superdog who I believe were the three main frontliners were broken, I think Obey would have probably still won. If you break through them, you then have to break through War-Peace, Tokahontas, Venomous Retribution and GranTorino*. If you break through them you have to break through Mezonis, my own account, Obone and Love Apocalypse.

It would have been an uphill battle either ways.
What if superdog, simply, and others would have joined Escape instead of OBEY? Possible game changer or still OBEYs world 100%?
 

halldbe

Well-Known Member
I honestly don't think it would have mattered. Even in the hypothetical scenario that Simplyphysics, Natticus and Superdog who I believe were the three main frontliners were broken, I think Obey would have probably still won. If you break through them, you then have to break through War-Peace, Tokahontas, Venomous Retribution and GranTorino*. If you break through them you have to break through Mezonis, my own account, Obone and Love Apocalypse.

It would have been an uphill battle either ways.
So you are saying that the offer of non-aggression pact to mehh!! 2 months ago was only a fun practice in diplomacy?

It's easy to play the "I never doubted" card when you have the momentum. But you guys weren't so sure back then ;)
 

sondog11

Active Member
So you are saying that the offer of non-aggression pact to mehh!! 2 months ago was only a fun practice in diplomacy?

It's easy to play the "I never doubted" card when you have the momentum. But you guys weren't so sure back then ;)
To be fair, wanting to make the path easier doesn't mean that he had to doubt their eventual success.
 

DJBrotoe

Still Going Strong
But the fact Obey were getting more inactive isn't a good enough reason that they had doubt?
I'm not sure where this Obey was going inactive came from tbh... On every world you lose people and to be honest this is one of the least players lost of any tribe I've been in from start to finish.
 

sondog11

Active Member
But the fact Obey were getting more inactive isn't a good enough reason that they had doubt?
I was unaware that they were getting inactive, and if 1 or 2 were I still doubt that that would cause doubt among the remaining members, as DJ said, every tribe loses at least a few players as the world progresses, and I have not seen many changes among the ranks of OBEY as the world progresses.
 

the nemesis123

Guest
So you are saying that the offer of non-aggression pact to mehh!! 2 months ago was only a fun practice in diplomacy?

It's easy to play the "I never doubted" card when you have the momentum. But you guys weren't so sure back then ;)
I don't think it would have mattered. The only way Obey was going to fall over was if it kicked itself in the balls enough. Certainly I can say Obey tried a little in that regard with the whole Mint thing and leadership revolving doors. It really just comes up to lineup. Losing TreX and Balian was a big blow to the coalition because it created a void in the lineup. If Obey lost a TreX or a Balian, then they probably have at least 15 people who could replace TreX or Balian either equally or better.
 
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Griffin140

Non-stop Poster
So you are saying that the offer of non-aggression pact to mehh!! 2 months ago was only a fun practice in diplomacy?

It's easy to play the "I never doubted" card when you have the momentum. But you guys weren't so sure back then ;)
Very myopic statement ^
Maybe that same train of thought is what got you into this situation to begin with.

Rewind the clock 2 months ago, we had just wrapped up Outlaw. DEFY was the main focus. APEX was also getting hammered but was hitting back with ESCAPE / whatever they called themselves at the time in the North East. WET (and THC) had just failed an OP for the first time on Benjameen, Pampy, & LGScotland. But all those accounts required massive amounts of support to keep secure. Both Meh and OBEY were eating Pest in k63/k64 and things were heating up. Approaching for a temp. NAP just made sense for OBEY so it wouldn't have to divert resources against MEH when it had enough on it's plate.

Critical thinking is crucial here.
 

chaty

Non-stop Poster
I'm not sure where this Obey was going inactive came from tbh... On every world you lose people and to be honest this is one of the least players lost of any tribe I've been in from start to finish.
They where getting their the plays who were doing most where GT and redcup everyone else was sort of turtling up it was only after red cup did an amazing job they seemed to start working together a bit or that’s how I saw it might be wrong