Forcing access to accounts for troop counts

[DeletedUser]

Hi everybody,

A short while ago my partner in real life was "told" by her Duke that she "must" allow access to her account for troop count verification.
She pointed out that her account is private and that she would not give him access but that he should have her villages scouted. He then insited that she allow him access and told her that she would be dismissed if she did not.

I am aware, through my own experiences, that there is a current "fashion" on all worlds for this type of thing to happen and indeed it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance.

Just so that everybody is aware of the rules i am publishing this Support Request question on many world forums:

Hi,
According to this rule:

"Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts). "


According to this it is against the rules to "force" access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method?

Thanks for your help,
Blue

Bandit Jul 07,2009 02:07
Hello BlueAvenger,

Yes it is. Blackmailing for anything is illegal.

Sincerely,

Kim/Bandit of the West
Tribalwars Support

In passing: I would also point out that insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules but as yet i have not checked it out.

I hope that from now on everybody will be aware of the rule and report any such "forcing" by raising a Service Request.

 

[DeletedUser]

i doubt it is illegal because generally when they ask they just are asking to sit the account to make sure everything is in check and it is not only a test of whether they build decently but a test of compliance which is neccesary for your tribemates because if noone in the tribe complies then the tribe will fail

 

[DeletedUser56243]

I think the solution in that case is that you just don't join the tribe. If you cant trust a tribal leader with your account for a couple of hours then I'm not sure why you'd join that tribe in the first place...

 

[DeletedUser]

I guess it is just not sinking in eh?
Understand it or not it is illegal and anyone trying to "force" access to another person's account will be banned.

It is not open for debate guys...read the thing!

It is simple...scout if you need troop level reports.

 

[DeletedUser64969]

account sitting??, if you dont trust them for 5min to account sit you then dont join thats all it takes, you have 10minuetes to cancel attacks you can kill them off after 5min if they do something then you dont join and fight them simple as that abit of common sense tbh

 

[DeletedUser]

If Your partner doesn't agree with the tribe's rules, WHY does She want to be a member of THAT tribe? Why would she remain a member of that tribe?

Honestly, I originally objected to the account sitting pre-requisite as well. But then I figured, "It's a game. I can start over if They mess it up. And if They sit-then-attack, I bet TW Support would have a field day...".

But for the sake of argument:

Hi everybody,

A short while ago my partner in real life was "told" by her Duke that she "must" allow access to her account for troop count verification.

Just to clarify, was the tribe asking for Her Password (access to Her account), or to account sit to validate Her troop count claims?

Demanding PWD would be illegal. Requesting to acct sit wouldn't Be...

Just so that everybody is aware of the rules i am publishing this Support Request question on many world forums:

Hi,
According to this rule:

"Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts). "


According to this it is against the rules to "force" access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method?

I think You highlighted the wrong words... This is an ANTI-PHISHING rule.

I guess it is just not sinking in eh?
Understand it or not it is illegal and anyone trying to "force" access to another person's account will be banned.

It is not open for debate guys...read the thing!

It is simple...scout if you need troop level reports.

If the Baron only wants members who trust Him enough to let him account sit, THAT IS HIS RIGHT. Threatening to kick a tribe member for not complying with tribe rules or directions issued by tribal leadership (or because He doesn't like Your attitude or Your village naming style, it's HIS TRIBE) wouldn't fall under "PHISHING" and CAN'T be considered "illegal" since it IS the right of the Baron to kick members of the tribe, and pretty much the ONLY authority they have in-game to control the tribe.

And if TW Support starts telling Baron's "You can't kick this player just because You don't trust Them & think They are lieing about thier troops counts" then they might as well just rename the game "Village Wars" because there would be NO POINT to having a tribe...
I can hear that argument now "Your lieing about Your troop counts"... "NO I'M NOT!"... "Prove it." ..."How?" (now He can't say "let Me account sit & check on it" because THAT would be illegal. So it will end with Your mate being kicked from the tribe because They don't want to let the leader of the tribe account sit & the leader has it in thier mind She doesn't have nearly the number of troops she claims.).

If The Baron can't warn members that They will get kicked for certain actions (or lack of action) because it's "PHISHING" or "blackmail" to do so, then Baron's will have no choice but to kick members and explain why later. I'm betting most players would PREFER the warning...

BUT Then You'd be complaining about getting kicked without warning and trying to prove THAT is "illegal"...

 

[DeletedUser]

From my post on the world 29 forums. This should help clarify what the rules actually say.

I found the [OP's] statement to be highly vague and misleading, so I feel a further look at what the support request response actually meant is highly necessary.

The OP states that the duke requested "access" to the account in question. This could imply either that the duke wanted the password to the account, or that the duke wanted to be temporarily set as an account sitter.

With respect to the rules, there is a significant difference between requesting these two types of "access". The OP's argument is correct in stating that it would be illegal for the duke to threaten a player into giving a password. The rules state that "Phishing or blackmailing players for passwords in any way is strongly forbidden". This strongly implies, if not outright states, that obtaining passwords through threats of force is illegal. This interpretation is confirmed by the support request, which states that it is illegal "to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". Obtaining a password by threat is thus illegal, as it is clearly obtaining "access" to an account, and therefore is prohibited by the support request.

However, the OP seems to imply that for a duke to require "access" to an account through account sitting is also illegal, a belief the rules and support request offer scant evidence for. The OP says that "it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance." Since the OP says that "insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules", they undoubtedly consider this practice to be illegal. It is indeed commonplace for tribes to do this, obtaining access by means of account sitting. However, I have yet to see a tribe that checks troop levels by obtaining a password. Since this "commonplace" practice is considered by the OP to be illegal, it is clear that this message implies the practice of requiring account sitting by force is illegal.

The rules state that "Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts)." The rules only mention phishing as being an illegal method of obtaining ingame information. Since phishing is generally done through either staff impersonation or a spoofed web page, the rules in no way state that obtaining ingame information via threats would be prohibited. In fact, the rules state that "Threats and blackmailing of other players are allowed only if the context is entirely ingame". Using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, such as the troop counts an account sitting would reveal, is thus almost certainly permitted by the rules.

Unlike in the case of passwords, the rules offer no special protection against obtaining account sitting via threats, only stating that "It is not allowed to abuse account sitting. Account sitters that intentionally destroy or seriously damage an account they are sitting will be punished". Since obtaining troop counts via account sitting is hardly "intentional destruction" of the account, the rules imply no prohibition of it. The rules permit using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, and the rules give no special prohibition against doing so by demanding an account sitting, in contrast to the prohibitions they impose on demanding passwords. Thusly, the rules in no way imply that it is illegal to obtain an account sitting from a player via ingame threats.

The support request states that "it is against the rules to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". As demonstrated above, this undoubtedly means it is illegal to obtain a password via threats, as the rules without clarification strongly imply the illegality of this. However, it is nowhere near clear that the illegal obtaining of "access" to an account is meant to include obtaining an account sitting. Since "access" could very well be limited in meaning to obtaining a password, and the rules the offer no evidence that obtaining an account sitting via threats is illegal, it is extraordinarily unlikely that this support request prohibits obtaining an account sitting by threat.

In summary: The rules and the above support request almost certainly demonstrate that obtaining a password to an account via threats is illegal, but utterly lack any persuasive evidence that using threats to obtain an account sitting is in any way illegal. Thus, it is almost certainly still permitted for tribes to require players to submit to account sitting.

 

[DeletedUser]

The leader said that he/she would throw your partner out cos he/she couldn't trust them. Any decent tribe will do sittings everynow and then. The reason for it is to check whether a player is good enough to join that tribe...whether they are contributing to the tribe...whether they can take part in a new op (troop counts)...whether they are a spy (by reading mails). All members should therefore trust their leader with their account for a few minutes cos the leader is doing it for the benefit of the tribe. Why would a leader try to destroy an account?...they simply wouldn't unless they didn't care about their tribe which is highly unlikely.

As people have already said, if you can't trust a leader with you account, then you shouldn't join ANY tribe. It is also perfectly understandable in my opinion for a leader to throw out any member who will not let them sit their account cos if you refuse, you are likely to be a spy.

 

[DeletedUser]

,,, and of course being caught as a spy you could do 15-25 yrs in TW prison.

 

[DeletedUser]

What about blackmailing for premium? i do that all the time

 

[DeletedUser]

It looks like if your tribe leader asks to look at your account and you refuse then he threatens you if you complain they can get banned.

This is only great news if you are a spy.

 

[DeletedUser64969]

What about blackmailing for premium? i do that all the time

you can hint at it but not say perfectly or you can get banned as its personal objects or (money), so saying give me 20pp or i rim you could get you banned, saying well if theirs some payment i wont rim you but am not instreasted in villeges then thats how they interpret it

 

[DeletedUser]

It is legal it is not a threat to ask players to follow a tribe rule or be dissmissed iif they dont wish to comply as if they do not like thee rule they are better off elsewhere.no one is making anyone be in any tribe she has a choice and so long as theres no sitter abuse that is not breaking any rules

 

[DeletedUser]

well they should all hold hands and hug (p.s she was not forced to do anthything)