Forcing access to accounts for troop counts

Discussion in 'W27 General discussion:' started by BlueAvenger, Jul 7, 2009.

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  1. BlueAvenger

    BlueAvenger Guest

    Hi everybody,

    A short while ago my partner in real life was "told" by her Duke that she "must" allow access to her account for troop count verification.
    She pointed out that her account is private and that she would not give him access but that he should have her villages scouted. He then insited that she allow him access and told her that she would be dismissed if she did not.

    I am aware, through my own experiences, that there is a current "fashion" on all worlds for this type of thing to happen and indeed it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance.

    Just so that everybody is aware of the rules i am publishing this Support Request question on many world forums:

    Hi,
    According to this rule:

    "Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts). "


    According to this it is against the rules to "force" access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method?

    Thanks for your help,
    Blue

    Bandit Jul 07,2009 02:07
    Hello BlueAvenger,

    Yes it is. Blackmailing for anything is illegal.

    Sincerely,

    Kim/Bandit of the West
    Tribalwars Support

    In passing: I would also point out that insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules but as yet i have not checked it out.

    I hope that from now on everybody will be aware of the rule and report any such "forcing" by raising a Service Request.
     
  2. pallysrange

    pallysrange Guest

    what is it with people who don't play this world coming and posting their useless posts here?
     
  3. Bandit of the West

    Bandit of the West Non-stop Poster

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    Let me clarify. A duke asking his members to let him sit them to check to see how they are doing is NOT blackmail. Telling someone that you will give out personal information on them or bad pics is.

    It's perfectly normal for more experienced players to ask for account sitting of those not so experienced to give advice and help those members be better players. Under any circumstance should you not ever give out your personal info to anyone that you do not trust completely. Play smart.

    And just so we are clear about this:

    Blackmail - Extortion of money or something else of value from a person by the threat of exposing a criminal act or discreditable information.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  4. stampcoin

    stampcoin Guest

    Well that was fun. :)
     
  5. rockerdish

    rockerdish Contributing Poster

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    Some stupid guy taking TW too seriously.
     
  6. BlueAvenger

    BlueAvenger Guest

    It does NOT say it is illegal to LET someone access your account. It DOES say it is illegal to FORCE someone to let you access their account.
    In the example given the Duke tried to Blackmail her but it can be any kind of pressure.....he is not alone in this manner of trying to force access.

    The Rule:

    "Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts). "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2009
  7. ingaling

    ingaling Guest

    Oh, do stop it. From my post on the W29 forums:

    I found the [OP's] statement to be highly vague and misleading, so I feel a further look at what the support request response actually meant is highly necessary.

    The OP states that the duke requested "access" to the account in question. This could imply either that the duke wanted the password to the account, or that the duke wanted to be temporarily set as an account sitter.

    With respect to the rules, there is a significant difference between requesting these two types of "access". The OP's argument is correct in stating that it would be illegal for the duke to threaten a player into giving a password. The rules state that "Phishing or blackmailing players for passwords in any way is strongly forbidden". This strongly implies, if not outright states, that obtaining passwords through threats of force is illegal. This interpretation is confirmed by the support request, which states that it is illegal "to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". Obtaining a password by threat is thus illegal, as it is clearly obtaining "access" to an account, and therefore is prohibited by the support request.

    However, the OP seems to imply that for a duke to require "access" to an account through account sitting is also illegal, a belief the rules and support request offer scant evidence for. The OP says that "it is commonplace for tribes to insist on access to tribemembers' accounts to check on troop levels and when meeting with resistance to then "force" compliance." Since the OP says that "insisting on access to someone's account before they join a tribe is also likely to be considered breaking the rules", they undoubtedly consider this practice to be illegal. It is indeed commonplace for tribes to do this, obtaining access by means of account sitting. However, I have yet to see a tribe that checks troop levels by obtaining a password. Since this "commonplace" practice is considered by the OP to be illegal, it is clear that this message implies the practice of requiring account sitting by force is illegal.

    The rules state that "Any attempt of phishing will be strongly punished. This includes phishing for account information (like passwords) and ingame information (like troop counts)." The rules only mention phishing as being an illegal method of obtaining ingame information. Since phishing is generally done through either staff impersonation or a spoofed web page, the rules in no way state that obtaining ingame information via threats would be prohibited. In fact, the rules state that "Threats and blackmailing of other players are allowed only if the context is entirely ingame". Using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, such as the troop counts an account sitting would reveal, is thus almost certainly permitted by the rules.

    Unlike in the case of passwords, the rules offer no special protection against obtaining account sitting via threats, only stating that "It is not allowed to abuse account sitting. Account sitters that intentionally destroy or seriously damage an account they are sitting will be punished". Since obtaining troop counts via account sitting is hardly "intentional destruction" of the account, the rules imply no prohibition of it. The rules permit using ingame threats to obtain ingame information, and the rules give no special prohibition against doing so by demanding an account sitting, in contrast to the prohibitions they impose on demanding passwords. Thusly, the rules in no way imply that it is illegal to obtain an account sitting from a player via ingame threats.

    The support request states that "it is against the rules to 'force' access to an account by blackmail or threat or by any method". As demonstrated above, this undoubtedly means it is illegal to obtain a password via threats, as the rules without clarification strongly imply the illegality of this. However, it is nowhere near clear that the illegal obtaining of "access" to an account is meant to include obtaining an account sitting. Since "access" could very well be limited in meaning to obtaining a password, and the rules the offer no evidence that obtaining an account sitting via threats is illegal, it is extraordinarily unlikely that this support request prohibits obtaining an account sitting by threat.

    In summary: The rules and the above support request almost certainly demonstrate that obtaining a password to an account via threats is illegal, but utterly lack any persuasive evidence that using threats to obtain an account sitting is in any way illegal. Thus, it is almost certainly still permitted for tribes to require players to submit to account sitting.
     
  8. Dartship

    Dartship Guest

    Listen to Kim. She rules :icon_smile:
     
  9. erm kim is bandit of the west? :icon_eek:
     
  10. Dartship

    Dartship Guest

    I knew her as Breeze12, but that is what she goes by now:icon_wink: