HaV!

Tonytheplatypus

Guest
Not that it wouldn't be interesting to see happen, and not that I am judging the actions of traitors (this is a game after all) I'm just laying out what I believe most people on both sides of the world would universally consider a traitor to be. If you still believe I am wrong please correct me, and if you think I am spot on just ignore my points completely.. not that you would do that though.

As I have no idea of the diplomacy between the WA tribes, it is hard to comment on that. From the outside, unless there was some type of agreement that all the WA tribes would never declare on any of the others, I don't see a declaration of war as a betrayal. Once the goals of the alliance have been achieved, each tribe has to reevaluate their position. If a tribe decides it makes sense to declare on another tribe, that is part of the game.

For those who doesn't bother to read a long post about how to build towers from shiny crap, here is the essence of his previous message:

Whatever tribe is leaving BoH/HaV/Wisdom/Eastern Losers, that's treachery, whatever tribe is leaving another WA partner, that's Tribal Wars.


--

As for SA, you couldn't be worse.
As for the endgame, you couldn't be worse.


Still owe us two answers...

  1. In regards of your endless whining about players 'betraying' your side, how could that happen that [BA] never had a single player joining to a hostile (or actually, any) tribe? Clearly, hostile propaganda always pictured [BA] as to be the worse side in any war, with less skills and a terrible leadership...
  2. In regards of your whining about [BA] not fighting hard enough, how could that happen that [BA] gathered about the same amount of ODA than the three biggest, best ranked, hostile tribes together, while all three were reported to be the best killing machine of this world?

With your insulting, condescending posts, I don’t owe you anything. After having you minimize and misrepresent my previous post, my initial response was going to be to ignore yours, but I decide to try to respond to your questions.

How do I answer your first point? I have no idea what motivates your tribemates to stay in BA, nor do I know what motivated the players who switched sides. MOJO players I can understand, both our tribes had a lot of hostility towards the other tribe. That, combined with a desire for self-preservation, made it an easy choice for some. They were part of the Brotherhood, so players in the Brotherhood have more of a right than I do to have a problem with what they did. As to why your allies haven’t turned on you, at this point, why would they? Strategically, so far it hasn’t made sense to declare on you. Having you as an ally makes their job easier.

In regards to your second point, who ever said BA didn't fight hard enough? You must have a guilty conscience. As many have pointed out, Wise S was the more active tribe when it came to ODA. Why didn't you add in their ODA?

If you were on the EA side, take a second and think about why BA's ODA is so high compared to other tribes. I am sure you can come up with a lot of reasons why BA's ODA is higher than the other tribes in question. I will give you some of my thoughts:
The game is a lot different than it was when the war started. Nobles are a lot cheaper, so players can expand a lot quicker than earlier in the game. The more villages you have, the more nukes you can have, and obviously that allows you to gain ODA quicker. ODA is gained at a much faster pace than when the sides were closer. While it is true that BoH can also build nobles quicker, due to being outnumbered by more than 3-1, a larger number of villages have to be defensive.

The most valuable commodity in the game is time. If you only have a few hours a day to play, most of your time is spent responding to attacks. Due to time constraints, it isn’t always possible to launch attacks.

BA is on a side that outnumbers their opponent almost 4-1. Even if ¾ of your villages were offensive ones, you’d still have enough defensive villages to defend against attacks.
If you look at ODD, BoH has a much higher ODD than BA. BoH has been around for less than a year. It is hard to have a high ODA when you have to spend most of your time responding to attacks, and building defensive villages. BoH is under attack from 3 of the 4 largest tribes in this world. If it was a 1 on 1 war vs. only BA, the numbers would be a lot closer.

I am not making excuses, I am only pointing out that there is a lot more to the numbers and why they are what they are. It would be interesting to compare the ODA numbers of all the tribes in the first 6 months of the war. That would be a more accurate representation of the levels of offensive activity, before the sides were so uneven.
 

MM_HUN

Guest
I didn't add Wise S as they pretty much died out in the first some months of the war, and because, unless I'm mistaken, their ODA is not available in-game. Since all their active members have been sent to Wisdom, HaV, and finally BoH, I'd expect that their contribution is shown in their scores though.

Your excuse about having more villages sounds good, except that we weren't speaking about the last some months, but the entire lifespan of the tribes. If I'm not mistaken, BoS, Wisdom and BoH had about 2,5-3x more members, and a much bigger reserve of active players (due to their families) to get ODA. Another problem with your reasoning that [BA] didn't gathered the first spot in this war, but is actually holding it for like 2,5-3 years, including the period when Eastern Side had still outnumbered us...
 

Tonytheplatypus

Guest
Your excuse about having more villages sounds good, except that we weren't speaking about the last some months, but the entire lifespan of the tribes. If I'm not mistaken, BoS, Wisdom and BoH had about 2,5-3x more members, and a much bigger reserve of active players (due to their families) to get ODA. Another problem with your reasoning that [BA] didn't gathered the first spot in this war, but is actually holding it for like 2,5-3 years, including the period when Eastern Side had still outnumbered us...

The numbers you posted compared the current ODA of BA, with the current ODA numbers of EA tribes. I was addressing why I think those numbers are the way they are. Those numbers also include ODA that you gained from taking in 3 EA players. They also are affected by mass defections from BoS to the WA. If you think that BA's ODA would be what it is if the sides were even close to even, you are fooling yourself.

When the war started, the EA had 6,000 more villages than the WA. That is a 6% village advantage. I am not sure how you think that slight advantage compares to the current imbalance.

As far as positioning, whatever advantage the EA had in terms of position, was more than negated when a large part of MOJO switched sides. That gave the WA a huge front on what had been safe K's for the EA.

If you check the ODA for the last 30 days, NP has a higher ODA than BA. What is your excuse for that?
 

the.elles.d

Guest
Lack of interesting and skilful enemy?
We got around it by nuking our own def villages and getting loads of ODA.
 

MM_HUN

Guest
The numbers you posted compared the current ODA of BA, with the current ODA numbers of EA tribes. I was addressing why I think those numbers are the way they are. Those numbers also include ODA that you gained from taking in 3 EA players. They also are affected by mass defections from BoS to the WA. If you think that BA's ODA would be what it is if the sides were even close to even, you are fooling yourself.

1.) FYI, ingame numbers don't include ODA from recruited members, only for the period they're here. So if you imply that they were gaining a lot of ODA, then by the same logic, they should have gained like 10 times more ODA to EA sides before they switched side, due to the fact they spent like 10 times more time on that side and that period had been counted for those tribes. Unless they were only started really rocking in [BA], and been amicable players before, in which case you practically didn't lose any advantage by losing them. It would also contradict with your previous statements about how much [BA] is a worse quality tribe, winning by barb whoring, and not by "skill".

2.) [BA] had twice the amount of ODA than the best (and better ranked) eastern tribe when the war started. We haven't gathered the upper hand on the ODA scoreboard during the war, simply maintained it.

Seems logic isn't your strong point, as like you stated, you're speaking about current scores, but want to explain theim by ignoring about 70% of the relevant timeline. That might suits your flawed logic better, but makes it completely worthless to waste time on your "reasoning".

If you check the ODA for the last 30 days, NP has a higher ODA than BA. What is your excuse for that?

Winners don't need excuses, Tony. Only losers are always trying to find some.
 

Tonytheplatypus

Guest
2.) [BA] had twice the amount of ODA than the best (and better ranked) eastern tribe when the war started. We haven't gathered the upper hand on the ODA scoreboard during the war, simply maintained it.

Please provide evidence to back this claim up.
 

MM_HUN

Guest
Please provide evidence to back this claim up.

Oh please, it has been posted on these very forums, don't you remember? Those numbers the moderator had to re-color due to the constant whining from Wisdom leadership that they shouldn't be called the Eastern Alliance with MOJO and BH since there is no such alliance at all... those had the ODD, ODA and ODT comparisons about the pre-war state.

Takes like five minutes to find the appropriate posts by using that very powerful search option they have originally provided to keep people somewhat self-sufficient, and prevent them to make a fool of themselves.
 

MM_HUN

Guest
It seems you either failed to do any work beyond talking, or you didn't like the result. :icon_wink:

So just to increase your pain a bit, here are the bits for all the rest who might still not bored enough to abandon watching this thread:




Just to remind you: 2009 September has been before declaring war. 2009 December has been after declaring war. In fact, you can even see that Wisdom was gaining a lot of ODA (in % growth, actually more than us, even taking the lead from MOJO as the second ranked ODA machine) in the first some months due to the Corridor being next-door as an excellent target and the majority of our nukes having to travel weeks to reach you, while you had to wait only a couple days for the same effect on us or 13th.

Still, it seems we were already having that ratio, were being able to maintain it, even in the first times, and are still maintaining it. So it seems we haven't gathered the lead after poor Eastern side got into trouble like you implied.


So, what's next, lazy propaganda-guy? Surely not a public apology. That wouldn't suit your style.
 

Tonytheplatypus

Guest
I didn't add Wise S as they pretty much died out in the first some months of the war, and because, unless I'm mistaken, their ODA is not available in-game. S...


Oh please, it has been posted on these very forums, don't you remember? Those numbers the moderator had to re-color due to the constant whining from Wisdom leadership that they shouldn't be called the Eastern Alliance with MOJO and BH since there is no such alliance at all... those had the ODD, ODA and ODT comparisons about the pre-war state.

Takes like five minutes to find the appropriate posts by using that very powerful search option they have originally provided to keep people somewhat self-sufficient, and prevent them to make a fool of themselves.

I told you many times, I was almost never on the forums. I didn't even know about the external forums for a few months after I started playing TW. You posted that Wise S ODA stats were not available, so how should I know to search the forums? That doesn't make me lazy, it means I didn't know that they were posted somewhere.

Everyone knows that Wise S and Wisdom were really 1 tribe. If you combine the ODA for both tribes, By December, their combined ODA was higher than BA's.

What are you expecting an apology for? Because I listened when you told me the Wise S stats weren't available? Because I didn't know that somewhere on the forums, the ODA was posted in a thread from 2 years ago? If there was something to apologize for, I would. Unlike you, I can admit when I am wrong.
 

MM_HUN

Guest
Everyone knows that Wise S and Wisdom were really 1 tribe. If you combine the ODA for both tribes, By December, their combined ODA was higher than BA's.

So you know that's not 1 tribe, but by any mathematical rules, it's 2. That means twice the amount of players. With twice the amount of players, Wisdom family was being able to gather +0,3% more ODA in december, in their best month. That's a great achievement, really, it means that our members were just working like 199% harder than a Wisdom family member.

I guess that also make your claim that we didn't have twice the amount of ODA than the best single tribe on East true. Otherwise, why would you try to make such a silly response and compare two tribes to one, despite we were speaking about 1 vs 1 (which is your favourite setting)?

Sigh, you know what, welcome on my ignore list. In a matter or months you've just reached the deeps of Inty in terms of wisdom, and the least I'd expect from someone who is constantly whining about the lack of respect towards him is that he isn't deliberately wasting everyone's time with so much retarded bullsh*t (mistakenly called arguments) like you do.
 

crazychamps

Guest
The past 3 pages of this thread have given me a headache reading due to the repetitiveness of every single subject.

firstly,
@tony, I have huge amounts of errors that i can comment on, but MM and eviljo pointed out nearly 90% of them yet you still managed to either ignore the replies you got or they just went in one ear and out the other (figuratively speaking).

Second, the best way to see the difference in advantages over the years is to refer to the "A Look back vs now" thread found HERE - Please click

I will only comment on one case where you said the WA recruited alot of players than they nobled.

[spoil]I will refer to the maps in the thread i showed you above

To begin

294jac4.gif


Let us focus on Wisdom Family first. You guys had 2 tribes, which meant you can have a tribe limit of 200 players. If i can remember right, Wisdom had around 80 or so and Wise S had between 70 and 80. now look at your neighbors.

You fought a long war with MOJO. K75 was a family tribe of MOJO's and atleast half of it was recruited when they were tired with MOJO. The rest of the war remained a standstill with nomore than 50 winning gains per month or so from a tribe.

Avalon - was recruited by you guys after you told them either join us or we will fight you or whatnot. Vladir can tell his side of the story as he told me various times but i regretfully can't remember it properly.

TDE - A tribe you declared on when avalon was still around. I know this as I remember vladir telling me he wanted avalon to war it but you guys jumped straight in.
From memmory, i think the war lasted less than a month where Wisdom recruited over 50% of players.

Then comes the single K of ASK, i think they either joined you guys or joined DOM, i cannot remmember correctly.

DOM - well this war was on and off and resulted in you recruiting most of them while BH was still warring them.

out of the three southern tribes (SA, KOBR, ETURG). Eturg was an alie and they merged with KOBR then with you.
SA you fought with.

So congrats, out of so many neighboring tribes, how many did you recruit :lol:
Now i am not going to do this summary for BA and its allies as I cannot be bothered, but if you want compare it to what you told BA and the matter becomes laughable.

ohh and 100I were recruited by you
[/spoil]

As for BoH not having any allies,

you were allied to the following over the years that are important and that i remember (also those that were not listed above):

MOJO - we know how you supported them in that war. At their downfall, i can see why many players requested to join WA instead of Wisdom. So it was your fault that you lost those players as they realised how you turned your back on allies.

BH - well they also fell over the course of so many years due to lack of support from you guys.

And during my last days when I was in STORM, i remember a Nap or alliance being talked about with Wisdom. I cannot remember the details and whatnot, but I am sure not much help would of come from your end of the bargain.

As for oda and odd, i am not bothered commenting. the only argument you have is BoH having a huge odd compared to BA. Is it BA's fault that you are not attacking them in the force that they are attacking you? Do you think they should send nukes at each other just to increase their oda :lol: ?

MM's above post made me chuckle and i think he responded amazingly to your comment about oda comparison :D

The difference in advantage between EA and WA comes down to your failure as allies and tribemates during the course of the war.

The EA did have alot more ground than the WA yet you guys did not use it to its full potential so you being smaller now is your own fault and thus cannot be regarded as an excuse to you losing at the moment.

I hope this argument made sense, it gave me a bigger headache writing this and every point i commented on can go into further detail but bringing up the past is stupid. Everyone here knows that is it ones actions which brought everything into play and now some are paying the price while others are rejoicing with their gains. And finally, the WA is currently winning and it seems as if BoH has given up complete hope :)
 

Tonytheplatypus

Guest
When I first started playing TW, the thing that kept me interested was making new friends, and working together to survive in the game. I made several friends, in tribe, and even among enemies.

2 years ago my dad passed away, and it was the worst period in my life. I let a few people in my tribe know, and I guess they told a few other people. I received mails from almost everyone in my tribe expressing their condolences, and even many players in enemy tribes wrote that they were sorry to hear of my dad's passing. MOJO even asked their players not to target me for a few weeks while I was away from the game. It was the sense of community that made me stick around as long as I have.

Somewhere along the line, it seems like the forums of world 17 lost a lot of the civility which made the game fun and addictive. It has become a place where insults are the norm, and any differing opinion is met with derision and scorn. I think it best for the forums and myself that I no longer post here. The atmosphere is toxic, and I don't want to be a part of it. I am sure I am doing many a big favor. I know back in January I said I would stop posting, but I allowed myself to be drawn in when I was addressed directly. That won't happen this time.

This is a game, and I think it is easy to forget that sometimes. I wish everyone on both sides all the best in RL. If anyone wants to discuss anything ingame, I would love to have a dialog.

Chris
 
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