Havoc [Impact]

alphabonkers

Guest
Answers in bold.
Apparently we are both having the same views but from a different angle. While you are emphasizing more on the leader, I am emphasizing more on the member, the whole tribe. Surely there is an important aspect of having a good leader, but underestimating the member influence and overestimating the leader is just plain wrong in my eye.

Lets get back to the root of what started this discussion. "The reasoning Impact players/now leaders gave of leaving East - duke was inactive so we left". My query was, certainly there were more than one single person, duke - responsible for running the tribe - council members / trustable members. Couldn't they easily run east anyway ? All they couldn't have done is change the name of the tribe and disband it (assuming there were already a few/at least one person with baron priv). Running the tribe would have certainly be achievable.

So giving the reason of hey - our duke is not here, lets all jump and make a tribe is just utter crap. I just confronted them to agree that they have failed as a tribe -

If "the leader is all so important for the tribe and if there is none/inactive you just need to make a new tribe" - if that is the moto of those players, I just feel sorry for them. Let see two examples to back my statement.

Noodle - A tribe that was leaderless for a good time (during a war as well). They lost a few members, sure. Did the rest just plain leave and made a new tribe ? No. They found a solution. Members stepped up to take the responsibility of the tribe.

Riot! - The top ranked tribe of the world had an inactive leader. Our leader was MIA for more than 1 month, 3+ weeks of no point activity at all, 2+ weeks of no communication (in game/skype ), yellow for 2/3 times. All these happened during war time as well. And he was the only one with the duke privilege. Did we said, hey our leader is inactive/gone for weeks now. Lets all jump the ship and make a new tribe. No. Why? because Riot! was setup with a council from members who care for the tribe. Who stepped up (co-dukes) eventually after 1 month of inactive duke and start taking decisions for the tribe, with consultation of trustable members and informing all members. Two new co-dukes started working without even the duke privilege (as already mention, it has not extra benefits). Only a few days ago, our old leader came and handover dukeship to the co-dukes.

What I am saying here is no matter how much emphasis you put on the leader, the members are equally if not more responsible for success or failure of a tribe. Former east members could have continue running the tribe from being east. Making a new tribe is unnecessary, if you only gonna leave the inactives behind and recruit everyone else, even part of the leadership.

In summary, former east members, now impact members do not have what it takes to play the tribal wars the way it should be played. They fled at the first sign of danger (in fact a few of them did it more than once (wet?) ;)). They will just do it again.

On the contrary, Noodle and Riot! has a good number of members that are dedicated to the tribe they play for and are here for the long run... :icon_cool:
 

iCrew

Non-stop Poster
See it how you want it matters not to us
But when you have only 1 duke and he goes inactive
No matter what way you look at it you don't have FULL control over the tribe do you?

I don't see the need to have to explain it to you
If we have told you the why and you choose to shit stir and question it
So be it but don't expect answers
 

CitizenErased

Guest
See it how you want it matters not to us
But when you have only 1 duke and he goes inactive
No matter what way you look at it you don't have FULL control over the tribe do you?

I don't see the need to have to explain it to you
If we have told you the why and you choose to shit stir and question it
So be it but don't expect answers
That is exactly what happened to Riot!

You didn't see them canceling their wars or forming another tribe.

Verdict: Excuses.
 

Music Loving Chemist.

Guest
You can't compare 2 tribes like that people.
In Riot! there were plenty of members with as much or more leadership experiences as the duke. When the duke went inactive there were people to take over.

East had without a doubt some good players, but that doesn't make them good leaders. You can't compare both tribes =/ For East leadership was more important then the members.
In Riot! there were good leaders among the members.
 

davispuh

Guest
Why Impact did so and why not different ? Does it really matter?
Maybe it wasn't best option but maybe it was? It's really hard to tell, even for me (the member of Impact) but it's definitely better than doing nothing... So I think we should stop arguing about this topic and future will show ;)

Anyway I don't see any bad things about making new tribe. Mostly because East had really bad reputation on forums (due Kung fu and other spammers) Also it's much easier not to invite east players than kick them in east when they've been loyal for it. We didn't invited only inactives but also few players which just wasn't enough good, in bad position or not enough active... But sometimes have to do these hard decisions for future...

And it seems we're doing great, because soon we'll have more villages with less members than east ever have had...
Our nobling speed is pretty impressive Havoc (conquer periods) and I think we'll keep it up for some while ;)
(yesterday we were #1 Top nobling tribe)
[spoil]

[/spoil]
 

Hama215

Guest
Anyway I don't see any bad things about making new tribe. Mostly because East had really bad reputation on forums (due Kung fu and other spammers) Also it's much easier not to invite east players than kick them in east when they've been loyal for it. We didn't invited only inactives but also few players which just wasn't enough good, in bad position or not enough active... But sometimes have to do these hard decisions for future...
Always wondered why you let Kung fu actually look at the forums :icon_razz:

Agreed, have had to make hard choices similar to that myself lately.
 

iCrew

Non-stop Poster
That is exactly what happened to Riot!

You didn't see them canceling their wars or forming another tribe.

Verdict: Excuses.

Do you want a cookie?
Or is this where we all bow down to the great riot tribe who you seem to view as god of the world..


What are you on about canceling wars? lol
When did not run from any wars
When the new tribe was formed we declared all the wars we were in
If anything it would have been a period in which people would be crossing over etc.
And become a disadvantage if anything because things would have been up in the air

And your verdict means what?...
Its means nothing and does nothing

But its your opinion and you are entitled to it I guess
 

TrueGrave

Guest
What are you on about canceling wars? lol
When did not run from any wars
When the new tribe was formed we declared all the wars we were in
XX :icon_rolleyes: or did you forget about your biggest war already :icon_cool: the only one you are no longer fighting. You declared on all the tribes you were gang banging, or are still massively out weighing. Just not the one tribe that threatened you.
 

n0b0dy ya know

Guest
Wait wat? Bhawb is one of the leadership of XX? :icon_eek:
Where were the days he spammed on the world 49 externals making up excuses for that barb munching tribe? :icon_rolleyes:
 

alphabonkers

Guest
Our nobling speed is pretty impressive Havoc (conquer periods) and I think we'll keep it up for some while ;)
(yesterday we were #1 Top nobling tribe)
Ofcourse your nobling speed is pretty impressive and you will keep it for awhile. After all you are nobling east :lol:



Looks like inactives/incompetent ex-tribe members bite back as well :p
 

bhawb

Guest
Wait wat? Bhawb is one of the leadership of XX? :icon_eek:
Where were the days he spammed on the world 49 externals making up excuses for that barb munching tribe? :icon_rolleyes:
Sergei picked me up from horde, I became co-duke of VLN, went through a 12-step program, and got over my dependency on barbs. It was touching I assure you.

[spoil]Anyway I don't see any bad things about making new tribe. Mostly because East had really bad reputation on forums (due Kung fu and other spammers) Also it's much easier not to invite east players than kick them in east when they've been loyal for it. We didn't invited only inactives but also few players which just wasn't enough good, in bad position or not enough active... But sometimes have to do these hard decisions for future...
[/spoil]
You talk about the external reputation. You have a few members who have a bad reputation here, kung fu was the only one left behind out of the group (unless you count CM). I really do have to question some of the members that you kept around; it appears like you guys cut the fat off the pig, but if the meat is diseased, does it really help any?

[spoil]Apparently we are both having the same views but from a different angle. While you are emphasizing more on the leader, I am emphasizing more on the member, the whole tribe. Surely there is an important aspect of having a good leader, but underestimating the member influence and overestimating the leader is just plain wrong in my eye.

Lets get back to the root of what started this discussion. "The reasoning Impact players/now leaders gave of leaving East - duke was inactive so we left". My query was, certainly there were more than one single person, duke - responsible for running the tribe - council members / trustable members. Couldn't they easily run east anyway ? All they couldn't have done is change the name of the tribe and disband it (assuming there were already a few/at least one person with baron priv). Running the tribe would have certainly be achievable.

So giving the reason of hey - our duke is not here, lets all jump and make a tribe is just utter crap. I just confronted them to agree that they have failed as a tribe -

If "the leader is all so important for the tribe and if there is none/inactive you just need to make a new tribe" - if that is the moto of those players, I just feel sorry for them. Let see two examples to back my statement.

Noodle - A tribe that was leaderless for a good time (during a war as well). They lost a few members, sure. Did the rest just plain leave and made a new tribe ? No. They found a solution. Members stepped up to take the responsibility of the tribe.

Riot! - The top ranked tribe of the world had an inactive leader. Our leader was MIA for more than 1 month, 3+ weeks of no point activity at all, 2+ weeks of no communication (in game/skype ), yellow for 2/3 times. All these happened during war time as well. And he was the only one with the duke privilege. Did we said, hey our leader is inactive/gone for weeks now. Lets all jump the ship and make a new tribe. No. Why? because Riot! was setup with a council from members who care for the tribe. Who stepped up (co-dukes) eventually after 1 month of inactive duke and start taking decisions for the tribe, with consultation of trustable members and informing all members. Two new co-dukes started working without even the duke privilege (as already mention, it has not extra benefits). Only a few days ago, our old leader came and handover dukeship to the co-dukes.

What I am saying here is no matter how much emphasis you put on the leader, the members are equally if not more responsible for success or failure of a tribe. Former east members could have continue running the tribe from being east. Making a new tribe is unnecessary, if you only gonna leave the inactives behind and recruit everyone else, even part of the leadership.

In summary, former east members, now impact members do not have what it takes to play the tribal wars the way it should be played. They fled at the first sign of danger (in fact a few of them did it more than once (wet?) ;)). They will just do it again.

On the contrary, Noodle and Riot! has a good number of members that are dedicated to the tribe they play for and are here for the long run... :icon_cool:[/spoil]
We can agree to disagree (in a form), since we essentially have the same concept, just slightly different views (like you said).
 
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original name...

Guest
Respect is something that becomes self evident over time. I don't presume to have the respect of every member, only hope that it is something that I earn over time.

Speaking of respect for leaders, one overlooked point of making a new tribe such as this: how do the members feel about the new leaders? And how do the members feel about the old leaders, who weren't all left behind?
We all hate Alvis, everyone else is fine :icon_wink:
 

t0msky

Guest
You can't compare 2 tribes like that people.
In Riot! there were plenty of members with as much or more leadership experiences as the duke. When the duke went inactive there were people to take over.

East had without a doubt some good players, but that doesn't make them good leaders. You can't compare both tribes =/ For East leadership was more important then the members.
In Riot! there were good leaders among the members.

youre right you cant compare two tribes with a not so similar incident, in riot the council still had enough power to actually have some control of the tribe.

in east pretty much all they had was trusted status, mnws was a single individual who didnt want to share any form of power with his council, not a good path to be on, lets take it to its conclusion, east is maintained with the existing leaders, nobody is able to protect mnws because nobody had the sit and hes off drinking mohitos on the beach or whatever, he is rimmed or taken down to level were when he eventually returns he decides to simply disband east....at that point its multiplied many times in difficulty in transitioning existing members into a new tribe, its better to do it when everyone is under the same umbrella so to speak.

your assumption that leadership was more important than membership is wrong and i would like to understand how you reached that conclusion when clearly the impact leadership made this decision for the existing membership and those left behind where either inactive or not teamplayers...

there are several members in impact who have had previous world experience as baron or duke and that doesnt mean a thing when they dont have the control of the tribe or the tribe forums to exercise that ability because when the majority see that there is a leadership missing, everyone thinks they have the right to lead and before you know it there are 40 threads of ops all pointless because everyone else thinks their ideas are the best

the only logical decision was to split off and reform under a shared and active leadership, this ensures that if one of the leaders go missing one remains and can then add another as cover whilst demoting/internalling the absent leader if thats needed

good active members are important, but leadership is critical, without direction all tribes will fail
 
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stec1611

Still Going Strong
You could debate this all day and still not agree, whats happened has happened and Havok should be judged on what they do next, not whats gone on in the past

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

Volgstaf

Guest
I see this so often mentioned in the forums, top tribes, sometimes premade, full of tw celebrities and talent, where the leader gets bored/disapointed and just logs off without handling things properly (something even the newbiest, most average tribe dukes can be arsed to do most of the time)... According to this thread it already happened to Noodle, Riot, East just form this world and I've heard of many many others...

I also get the impression the same names who leave abruptly come back a month later, announce a bad-ass premade with the l33test joining requirements, everybody fan-rages again, they are all still top players everyone compliments on the forum and "see you on skype hun"-ing etc. etc.
Am I getting the wrong impression or this is really very common? Shouldn't there be some negative side on reputation and fame for being, you know, completely unreliable? It's not all about timing and growing fast, specially in leaders...
 

NZKr4zyK1w1

Guest
I see this so often mentioned in the forums, top tribes, sometimes premade, full of tw celebrities and talent, where the leader gets bored/disapointed and just logs off without handling things properly (something even the newbiest, most average tribe dukes can be arsed to do most of the time)... According to this thread it already happened to Noodle, Riot, East just form this world and I've heard of many many others...

I also get the impression the same names who leave abruptly come back a month later, announce a bad-ass premade with the l33test joining requirements, everybody fan-rages again, they are all still top players everyone compliments on the forum and "see you on skype hun"-ing etc. etc.
Am I getting the wrong impression or this is really very common? Shouldn't there be some negative side on reputation and fame for being, you know, completely unreliable? It's not all about timing and growing fast, specially in leaders...
Nailed it. Although many grounded players tend to just play quietly do well for themselves. You will find these 'famous' just kinda go all in or nothing. If it doesn't work out they will quit and try again until they get that 'winning formula'. If things don't work out, they will usually just cut their losses :)

Nothing wrong with it, just a play style.