DeletedUser
Guest
First off, I'd like to start out by saying, it's good to feel wanted:
To begin with I'd just like to say that in each and every person you will always find admirable qualities as well as the less desirable traits. And I would like to say that in spite of the differences that Emperor Sin and I have had. I still really like and respect him as a person. I just can't play the game the way he does. While he certainly has many leadership qualities that I admire and respect, I can never get over his overall take on loyalty. I'm sure it feels right to him. I don't think of him as a bad person. It just doesn't match my views. Although, I will be the first to say my mistakes have many as well.
But before I get into to all of that I suppose I should back up. InSan3 and I have quite a long history and I could probably bore you to death with our background, but I'll keep the early part brief and fast forward to the more recent stuff. Not that the history isn't important (because it is), but I don't really have the space to go that far back unless it is just requested.
Anyway, short and fast- I was a member of InSan3- felt bad for abandoning the tribe (TW) I was baron of to join InSan3- so I left the next day and recreated my now disbanded tribe and led them in a war against InSan3 for a few weeks. It wasn't too long until all the people I had cared about had been rimmed or quit and the war so of dissolved. I went on to join many other other tribes but eventually I (and a good friend I had sort of PAed with)was invited back to InSan3. Forgiven and welcomed back with open arms. I made some great friendships there. I was quickly made Baron and devoted much of my time to furthering the tribe. I did a lot in diplomacy, wrote OPs, was one of the highest in war points, and genuinely loved my members.
Then a series of questionable actions by the InSan3 leadership (a couple of which have already made their way onto the externals) really caused a bit of clash in the leadership. I admit I threw some hissy fits over some of the things that went on that I didn't like. And what I did from there (which I will detail toward the end) is not something I'm proud of. I tried to have both worlds, I tried to help right what I felt were the wrongs of my fellow leaders and stay in the tribe with the people I cared about. In hindsight, if I couldn't go along with their decisions I should have just left.
Now for the juicy inside look at InSan3's Leadership.
In my opinion, a tribe is its members. I feel that it is immensely important that each and every member be valued and respected. That is how you value your tribe as a whole, by respecting its members. I'm not saying that members should never be reprimanded or even kicked because there is certainly a time and place for that. In fact, I'm in favor of being strict. But I am not for leaders abusing their privileges and putting themselves before their members or just plain being rude.
The InSan3 Council seemed to have mixed opinions on spying. While it was absolutely awesome to put spies in every other tribe (enemy and ally alike), they have no problem saying that spying is what they hate the most.
Ex 1: They put a spy in the tribe that I was Duke of when I was at war with them:
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:45 PM
ya did you choose him?
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:45 PM
what do u mean?
10/3/11 2:45 PM
if i recruited him?he applied but didn't get in o.0
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:45 PM
as your spy
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:46 PM
lol now why would u say that?
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:46 PM
because he isn't that good of one
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:46 PM
lmfao what did he say o0?
lmfao wow.....he mailed blood last night
10/3/11 2:48 PM
saying he will feed us info if we let him live xD
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:48 PM
lol
10/3/11 2:48 PM
pesky little guy
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:48 PM
the beauty of noobs >_>
10/3/11 2:48 PM
i say we both play him
Example 2 is a bit more current:
InSan3 currently has a spy in a tribe they have a NAP with so that he can merge in peace and so that the InSan3 and THE merge have time to really happen before that tribe gets turned on. I don't really know the guy. Can't speak for his true intentions or motives. He seems nice and loyal from what I can see. However I was directly told by InSan3 leadership that he was only there to merge and then would turn on them. Speaking of Insan3 diplomacy:
InSan3 diplomacy:
Now it's clearly written in the diplomacy area that these are non-binding. But come on! Planning to backstab and turn on allies and NAPs the day you make it?? Really??
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:08 AM
however his "real" alliance..dunno if it will happen
11/18/11 10:08 AM
MOTOR is allied to manic,as ive just been told
HallieMarie 11/18/11 10:08 AM
right
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:09 AM
and they have "agreed" to stick it out till the end
11/18/11 10:09 AM
meaning "endgame agreement" which i doubt manic will honor
11/18/11 10:09 AM
but if they do
11/18/11 10:09 AM
then that places GoT and motor in an akward position
HallieMarie 11/18/11 10:11 AM
hmm yes
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:14 AM
i think
11/18/11 10:14 AM
i want to risk it
11/18/11 10:14 AM
and try to play both tribes against each other
[9:52:07 AM] emperor_sin1: id liek to see what the possabilities of us allying for now...letting me get this **** merger out of the way,strengthen my frontlines...and in a few weeks,you and i remove GoT
[9:54:42 AM] Lens1: ironic isn't it?, that had been my plan for Motor and The until Justin sent me that bloody mail, lol
And this is the stuff that really gets me the most. The things that I really could not just overlook. The lack of loyalty to InSan3's own members.
I'm not going to re post the entire thing about Daphane GreenGrass (aka Twigy). Short version- Daph and Sewey had claims on a player. Emperor Sin removed the claims and then nobled the villas himself. He even lied to them and told them that I had gifted him the villages. One day I was asked about it and the truth came out that he had lied about the whole thing. Daph and Sewey confronted him. All he said for him was "am scum". Daphane left insane since he no longer had any respect or trust for the leadership. He was immediately launched upon. For more details, you read Twigy's post about it.
Immediately following that (and also mentioned on Twigy's post) was the issue of Viking8585. He was friends with a current member of our tribe, Dirtfish. We had been talking about recruiting him for weeks. He attacked someone that was a PA of an Honor member (though not listed) and then received numerous fakes from many hours away because of it. He still had the incoming fakes when Emperor Sin sat him and then invited him into the tribe. Very next day, Viking is dismissed without so much as a sentence from Bloodthiirsty because Honor asked him to. And he didn't even try to argue the matter one bit with Honor. They asked, he did it. Blood said this was because they had complied about stopping their growth in K85. However, Honor went from having 1 village in K85 to having at least 6 by the time I left InSan3. So Brian kicked a member of our tribe for no reason other than someone offhandly asking him too without so much as a "can't we make a compromise?" Dirtfish, loyal to his PA, also left. This is now the Spoons vs. InSan3 war.
So not only did they betray members for the sake of our ally's PA for crying out loud, they also go so far as to use another of our member for the war cause. Purely is the front line man on this war. However, there is a complication. You see, InSan3 already had plans to really irk him.
[11/21/11 11:45:20 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: we need purely now more than ever
[11/21/11 11:45:22 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: whatever u guys do
[11/21/11 11:45:27 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: dont mention the dominnus situation
[11/21/11 11:45:32 PM] HallieMarie: kk
[11/21/11 11:45:43 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: he's the most important player
[11/21/11 11:45:49 PM] HallieMarie: I don't think I know that situation
[11/21/11 11:45:56 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: he's his rl friend
[11/21/11 11:46:00 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: and we want to kick him
[11/21/11 11:46:01 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: lol
[11/21/11 11:46:04 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: since he's a slow grower
These are just a few examples of what I feel to be the lack of loyalty expressed by the InSan3 leadership. I voiced my opinion in council numerous times and got different responses- everything from 'your words almost hurt' to 'are u pregnant?'. InSan3 makes plans to backstab their Naps, their allies, and even their own members. I suppose you would say that they are working toward the greater good. But I'm just not able to standby and watch good players and loyal friends to be sacrificed to the greater good.
Now I will be the first to say that I handled this situation poorly. But here is what I did:
I remained in contact with dirtfish and Viking8585. Mostly I vented to them about the things I disagreed with in leadership. How mad I was that they constantly plan to double cross everyone they come in contact with, even their own members. I also started sharing some of the things that were being said about them. Like when blood said something about worrying Viking would snipe the trains. And I do admit I gave them slight heads up. It was not the right thing to do. I never gave them information that could hurt my own members. I never told landing times, troops counts, which villas were what, etc. Because I did know. I've sat most of the people involved and quite recently. But i really had no intention of hurting InSan3 or the members therein. The information I did give was of very little use. For example, I told them we were being required to fake. Not like they couldn't figure that out by the hundreds of incomings pooring in from the many members. And obviously by the war Stats, you can tell I didn't really help because it wasn't discovered that I was leaking info until after everyone had launched. In fact, I myself launched one of the trains from an account I was sitting.
But again, it was wrong for me to play the fence. I can't be on both sides. I should have chosen. This decision made my choice for me. Obviously I was kicked from InSan3 (and understandably- this is not a post saying they did me wrong). Probably it was for the best. I have been venting my anger about various decisions for weeks. My arguing with them does no good. I did try to step down from Baron on multiple occasions thinking maybe it would be best if I just didn't know. But now I am happily in a new tribe. Although I do miss many of my old tribemates.
However the story isn't over just yet.
Back to the wanted poster.
Obviously, I've angered at the very least the InSan3 council and they therefore want me rimmed. Now I don't wish to start a war for my new tribe and I honestly don't want to fight old friends, fortunately it appears that InSan3 doesn't wish to start a war just yet either. In fact, they have stooped to hate mail and having their friends threaten me.
[11/27/11 1:00:26 PM] Badgers-Jester: I hope to be near you soon to begin to noble ya out
[11/27/11 1:00:32 PM] Badgers-Jester: (smirk)
[11/27/11 1:01:04 PM] HallieMarie: lol thanks. I always like to have new neighbors
[11/27/11 1:42:59 PM] HallieMarie: So when might I be expect you? I'll try to remember to have some muffins baked
[11/27/11 1:43:27 PM] Badgers-Jester: ll let you know if muffins will be there
[11/27/11 1:43:38 PM] Badgers-Jester: will be a bit though
[11/27/11 1:44:15 PM] HallieMarie: yeah it's quite a distance, but I guess I can go ahead and take your order. Personally I prefer Strawberry muffins. What about u?
[11/27/11 1:45:42 PM] Badgers-Jester: I like many
[11/27/11 1:45:58 PM] Badgers-Jester: lemon poppy I had not to far back was very good
[11/27/11 1:46:07 PM] Badgers-Jester: wildberry
[11/27/11 1:46:34 PM] HallieMarie: mm sounds good. I'll have those set aside
[11/27/11 1:46:41 PM] Badgers-Jester: pumpkinspice
[11/27/11 1:46:47 PM] HallieMarie: now that's the one right there
[11/27/11 1:46:53 PM] HallieMarie: I making pumkinspice
[11/27/11 1:46:54 PM] HallieMarie: for real
And BTW Erick, I don't think you even understand what you posted on your own profile. That very line that you quoted me saying, I purposefully said because it was the exact excuse you gave Sewey and Daphane when you broke theirs.
To begin with I'd just like to say that in each and every person you will always find admirable qualities as well as the less desirable traits. And I would like to say that in spite of the differences that Emperor Sin and I have had. I still really like and respect him as a person. I just can't play the game the way he does. While he certainly has many leadership qualities that I admire and respect, I can never get over his overall take on loyalty. I'm sure it feels right to him. I don't think of him as a bad person. It just doesn't match my views. Although, I will be the first to say my mistakes have many as well.
But before I get into to all of that I suppose I should back up. InSan3 and I have quite a long history and I could probably bore you to death with our background, but I'll keep the early part brief and fast forward to the more recent stuff. Not that the history isn't important (because it is), but I don't really have the space to go that far back unless it is just requested.
Anyway, short and fast- I was a member of InSan3- felt bad for abandoning the tribe (TW) I was baron of to join InSan3- so I left the next day and recreated my now disbanded tribe and led them in a war against InSan3 for a few weeks. It wasn't too long until all the people I had cared about had been rimmed or quit and the war so of dissolved. I went on to join many other other tribes but eventually I (and a good friend I had sort of PAed with)was invited back to InSan3. Forgiven and welcomed back with open arms. I made some great friendships there. I was quickly made Baron and devoted much of my time to furthering the tribe. I did a lot in diplomacy, wrote OPs, was one of the highest in war points, and genuinely loved my members.
Then a series of questionable actions by the InSan3 leadership (a couple of which have already made their way onto the externals) really caused a bit of clash in the leadership. I admit I threw some hissy fits over some of the things that went on that I didn't like. And what I did from there (which I will detail toward the end) is not something I'm proud of. I tried to have both worlds, I tried to help right what I felt were the wrongs of my fellow leaders and stay in the tribe with the people I cared about. In hindsight, if I couldn't go along with their decisions I should have just left.
Now for the juicy inside look at InSan3's Leadership.
In my opinion, a tribe is its members. I feel that it is immensely important that each and every member be valued and respected. That is how you value your tribe as a whole, by respecting its members. I'm not saying that members should never be reprimanded or even kicked because there is certainly a time and place for that. In fact, I'm in favor of being strict. But I am not for leaders abusing their privileges and putting themselves before their members or just plain being rude.
The InSan3 Council seemed to have mixed opinions on spying. While it was absolutely awesome to put spies in every other tribe (enemy and ally alike), they have no problem saying that spying is what they hate the most.
Ex 1: They put a spy in the tribe that I was Duke of when I was at war with them:
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:45 PM
ya did you choose him?
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:45 PM
what do u mean?
10/3/11 2:45 PM
if i recruited him?he applied but didn't get in o.0
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:45 PM
as your spy
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:46 PM
lol now why would u say that?
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:46 PM
because he isn't that good of one
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:46 PM
lmfao what did he say o0?
lmfao wow.....he mailed blood last night
10/3/11 2:48 PM
saying he will feed us info if we let him live xD
HallieMarie 10/3/11 2:48 PM
lol
10/3/11 2:48 PM
pesky little guy
emperor_sin 10/3/11 2:48 PM
the beauty of noobs >_>
10/3/11 2:48 PM
i say we both play him
Example 2 is a bit more current:
InSan3 currently has a spy in a tribe they have a NAP with so that he can merge in peace and so that the InSan3 and THE merge have time to really happen before that tribe gets turned on. I don't really know the guy. Can't speak for his true intentions or motives. He seems nice and loyal from what I can see. However I was directly told by InSan3 leadership that he was only there to merge and then would turn on them. Speaking of Insan3 diplomacy:
InSan3 diplomacy:
Now it's clearly written in the diplomacy area that these are non-binding. But come on! Planning to backstab and turn on allies and NAPs the day you make it?? Really??
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:08 AM
however his "real" alliance..dunno if it will happen
11/18/11 10:08 AM
MOTOR is allied to manic,as ive just been told
HallieMarie 11/18/11 10:08 AM
right
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:09 AM
and they have "agreed" to stick it out till the end
11/18/11 10:09 AM
meaning "endgame agreement" which i doubt manic will honor
11/18/11 10:09 AM
but if they do
11/18/11 10:09 AM
then that places GoT and motor in an akward position
HallieMarie 11/18/11 10:11 AM
hmm yes
emperor_sin1 11/18/11 10:14 AM
i think
11/18/11 10:14 AM
i want to risk it
11/18/11 10:14 AM
and try to play both tribes against each other
[9:52:07 AM] emperor_sin1: id liek to see what the possabilities of us allying for now...letting me get this **** merger out of the way,strengthen my frontlines...and in a few weeks,you and i remove GoT
[9:54:42 AM] Lens1: ironic isn't it?, that had been my plan for Motor and The until Justin sent me that bloody mail, lol
And this is the stuff that really gets me the most. The things that I really could not just overlook. The lack of loyalty to InSan3's own members.
I'm not going to re post the entire thing about Daphane GreenGrass (aka Twigy). Short version- Daph and Sewey had claims on a player. Emperor Sin removed the claims and then nobled the villas himself. He even lied to them and told them that I had gifted him the villages. One day I was asked about it and the truth came out that he had lied about the whole thing. Daph and Sewey confronted him. All he said for him was "am scum". Daphane left insane since he no longer had any respect or trust for the leadership. He was immediately launched upon. For more details, you read Twigy's post about it.
Immediately following that (and also mentioned on Twigy's post) was the issue of Viking8585. He was friends with a current member of our tribe, Dirtfish. We had been talking about recruiting him for weeks. He attacked someone that was a PA of an Honor member (though not listed) and then received numerous fakes from many hours away because of it. He still had the incoming fakes when Emperor Sin sat him and then invited him into the tribe. Very next day, Viking is dismissed without so much as a sentence from Bloodthiirsty because Honor asked him to. And he didn't even try to argue the matter one bit with Honor. They asked, he did it. Blood said this was because they had complied about stopping their growth in K85. However, Honor went from having 1 village in K85 to having at least 6 by the time I left InSan3. So Brian kicked a member of our tribe for no reason other than someone offhandly asking him too without so much as a "can't we make a compromise?" Dirtfish, loyal to his PA, also left. This is now the Spoons vs. InSan3 war.
So not only did they betray members for the sake of our ally's PA for crying out loud, they also go so far as to use another of our member for the war cause. Purely is the front line man on this war. However, there is a complication. You see, InSan3 already had plans to really irk him.
[11/21/11 11:45:20 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: we need purely now more than ever
[11/21/11 11:45:22 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: whatever u guys do
[11/21/11 11:45:27 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: dont mention the dominnus situation
[11/21/11 11:45:32 PM] HallieMarie: kk
[11/21/11 11:45:43 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: he's the most important player
[11/21/11 11:45:49 PM] HallieMarie: I don't think I know that situation
[11/21/11 11:45:56 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: he's his rl friend
[11/21/11 11:46:00 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: and we want to kick him
[11/21/11 11:46:01 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: lol
[11/21/11 11:46:04 PM] Brian X - Blood [InSan3]: since he's a slow grower
These are just a few examples of what I feel to be the lack of loyalty expressed by the InSan3 leadership. I voiced my opinion in council numerous times and got different responses- everything from 'your words almost hurt' to 'are u pregnant?'. InSan3 makes plans to backstab their Naps, their allies, and even their own members. I suppose you would say that they are working toward the greater good. But I'm just not able to standby and watch good players and loyal friends to be sacrificed to the greater good.
Now I will be the first to say that I handled this situation poorly. But here is what I did:
I remained in contact with dirtfish and Viking8585. Mostly I vented to them about the things I disagreed with in leadership. How mad I was that they constantly plan to double cross everyone they come in contact with, even their own members. I also started sharing some of the things that were being said about them. Like when blood said something about worrying Viking would snipe the trains. And I do admit I gave them slight heads up. It was not the right thing to do. I never gave them information that could hurt my own members. I never told landing times, troops counts, which villas were what, etc. Because I did know. I've sat most of the people involved and quite recently. But i really had no intention of hurting InSan3 or the members therein. The information I did give was of very little use. For example, I told them we were being required to fake. Not like they couldn't figure that out by the hundreds of incomings pooring in from the many members. And obviously by the war Stats, you can tell I didn't really help because it wasn't discovered that I was leaking info until after everyone had launched. In fact, I myself launched one of the trains from an account I was sitting.
But again, it was wrong for me to play the fence. I can't be on both sides. I should have chosen. This decision made my choice for me. Obviously I was kicked from InSan3 (and understandably- this is not a post saying they did me wrong). Probably it was for the best. I have been venting my anger about various decisions for weeks. My arguing with them does no good. I did try to step down from Baron on multiple occasions thinking maybe it would be best if I just didn't know. But now I am happily in a new tribe. Although I do miss many of my old tribemates.
However the story isn't over just yet.
Back to the wanted poster.
Obviously, I've angered at the very least the InSan3 council and they therefore want me rimmed. Now I don't wish to start a war for my new tribe and I honestly don't want to fight old friends, fortunately it appears that InSan3 doesn't wish to start a war just yet either. In fact, they have stooped to hate mail and having their friends threaten me.
[11/27/11 1:00:26 PM] Badgers-Jester: I hope to be near you soon to begin to noble ya out
[11/27/11 1:00:32 PM] Badgers-Jester: (smirk)
[11/27/11 1:01:04 PM] HallieMarie: lol thanks. I always like to have new neighbors
[11/27/11 1:42:59 PM] HallieMarie: So when might I be expect you? I'll try to remember to have some muffins baked
[11/27/11 1:43:27 PM] Badgers-Jester: ll let you know if muffins will be there
[11/27/11 1:43:38 PM] Badgers-Jester: will be a bit though
[11/27/11 1:44:15 PM] HallieMarie: yeah it's quite a distance, but I guess I can go ahead and take your order. Personally I prefer Strawberry muffins. What about u?
[11/27/11 1:45:42 PM] Badgers-Jester: I like many
[11/27/11 1:45:58 PM] Badgers-Jester: lemon poppy I had not to far back was very good
[11/27/11 1:46:07 PM] Badgers-Jester: wildberry
[11/27/11 1:46:34 PM] HallieMarie: mm sounds good. I'll have those set aside
[11/27/11 1:46:41 PM] Badgers-Jester: pumpkinspice
[11/27/11 1:46:47 PM] HallieMarie: now that's the one right there
[11/27/11 1:46:53 PM] HallieMarie: I making pumkinspice
[11/27/11 1:46:54 PM] HallieMarie: for real
And BTW Erick, I don't think you even understand what you posted on your own profile. That very line that you quoted me saying, I purposefully said because it was the exact excuse you gave Sewey and Daphane when you broke theirs.
