Introduction of Pay to Win Premium Feature Discussion Thread

DeletedUser101547

Guest
For sputnik

Ok...this is in relation to Morthy's announcement that the W68 pay-to-win features are being installed in casual.

Anyone else think this is utterly ridiculous? Not only is it a horrible scheme which will destroy the game (I'm sure you've all already seen the petition thingy that's going around), but on the CASUAL world? For starters, I can't imagine that people would even be interested in it - I mean (no offence), being top of this world isn't exactly a huge thing to be proud of..so I doubt people would waste money on the idea.

Any thoughts?
(It's something to talk about, anyway, now that AngelicDemise [a.k.a. Lance Armstrong] has apparently decided to bugger off...)


EDIT: Ignore this, I wrote it, posted, and then realised a thread had been posted in the meantime. *Facepalm*
 

DeletedUser109935

Guest
Saves me the hassle of starting a new world just to buy flag packs!! :p
 

DeletedUser105659

Guest
Inno clearly want it to be a feature (increases income, and they are a business at the end of the day). They've had to concede its unpopularity with the wider TW community, so will only be applying it in every other new world.

Casual world is not important enough to get any sympathy on the externals, - hell, we don't even warrant a mod on our own forum, so we can whine here as much as we want, nobody will listen or even notice. Also, it's a useful testing lab for Inno to see how the new settings will run.

That's my initial take on it, anyway.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petiti...to-win-feature-from-tribalwars-net#supporters
^^ is the petition page
If you can't be bothered to click the link (or if it doesn't work due to my crappy computer skills lol), here is what it says:[spoil]
i'm sure you all know, W68 will have a revolutionary new feature activated. A feature that will quite literally allow you to "Pay to Win". You will be able to get increased resource production, if you have the money. You will be able to instantly finish building, if you have the money. You will be able to recieve flag packs, if you have the money. This is incredibly unfair on those who do not have much money; they will simply be overtaken by those that can pay their way to victory. This feature is a huge kick to our teeth after all the time and effort we have put into TribalWars. It is already a dying game, and I fear this feature will end it even quicker. So please sign this petition, and save the game we all know and love.

To:
InnoGames

This new feature will ruin Tribal Wars.net. If you really cared about the community, they would come first; not making more money. Introducing such a feature to a server so large and well formulated could easily bring it toppling to it's knees. There are much better ways of making money, but this isn't one of them.


Sincerely,
[Your name]
[/spoil]

Thanks Simple Mindead :)

Hoamzy, as the petition thingy tries to say, the pay-to-win won't be an increase for income, IMO at least. That's because of the sheer drop in popularity of the game that introducing this would create. Non-premmy players would be scared off permanently, and even premium users that simply aren't willing to dole out huge amounts of cash will fall far behind, and will then quit. And if that trend were to continue, profits in the long run would surely decline?

Yeah, you're probably right about using it as a testing ground; very few people care much about this world, and it's pretty irrelevant..
Hopefully, we can give it a negative enough feedback that they won't implement it in any future worlds. A naïve hope, but it might come true.
 

DeletedUser101547

Guest
The testing ground idea is not valid, it's already been on and tested on the other servers for a long time.

For me the issue is that we don't have a choice in this. With future worlds at least we can pick and choose if we want to join a P2W Prem world. They have effectivly changed the rule set for this world after it's started which isn't on. It would be better to bring it on on the next Casual world when it opens and have it every second world as with 'normal' worlds.

I think the nature of Casual world these rules will have a bigger impact then on a regular farming world. Esp with the 80-120 rule, a big part of the stratagy with this rule is controlling your growth in order to come in or out of people attackable range. EG If I want to not be attacked for a bit I'll farm and noble my way into the safe zone, when I want to hit an account I wait for them to catch up. Now with these new prem features someone can just buy their way into my attackable range. Well it's at least another factor I now have to watch for.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Where have they done it before? Don't think I remember it.

I think the entire defence of what they're doing to the world is that we're the Casual world, and nobody cares about us...meh.

Oh, I think that the Pay-To-Win thingy is only for buildings. A lot of people (not all, blah blah blah) will have started this world with a fairly decently-built village (others may have done that and then requested to be nobled out of their previous world, for the sole reason of joining this one with a good start).
As troops are only built at the normal rate (not enhanced by paying), does this P2W system actually handicap the paying players? Because legit players whose attack range is entered by NWCs (Nubz Wiv Cash) will have a larger army, able to easily crush people who buy their way up, I would have thought. And then you have to consider that to actually increase by a decent amount of points, you have to noble. That requires troops (if you attack players, which NWCs admittedly won't because they can just instantly upgrade smallish barbs, but suppose they do), which come from somewhere; and nobling a player - usually - takes at least some skill, or capability.
Of course, that doesn't affect your point about being able to control the 'safe zones', and such. But it's something to consider, I guess.
 

DeletedUser101547

Guest
No those that pay will have extra res income meaning they can que more troops then you with that extra res into buildings that are higher then yours, as they paid to have them built instantly, and will have higher flags then you do, again more income you don't have thus more troops again.

Build time reduction / Build instant - Higher levels = quicker troop production
Build cost reduction = less cost to buildings so therefore more res to spend on troops and coins
Merchant exchange = not sure what this means tbh. Sounds like auto transfer between villes?
Additional resource production = more troops, unfair advantage. (yes you can farm more to make up but it's not an equal playing field now)
Flag packages = with res bonus and all that again, makes it unfair.

So in short no it doenst mean they will have smaller armies.
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Ok, looks like I failed at trying to provide a positive. Hmm.

Anyone think it's an actually good idea? (not that our opinions will do much, it's just good to speculate)
 

DeletedUser101547

Guest
quote from Morthy on the w68 discussion thread.

icon1.png
The casual world is intended for new players, not players that have been here a long time. I'm aware that a lot of older players chose to play it (some getting conquered purposefully) and that's fine, but they should expect the direction of the world and any settings changes to firmly ignore whatever preferences they have as more experienced players.

Adding the features to the Casual world isn't a new decision, it was just missed from the announcement originally.​
 

DeletedUser

Guest
maybee a positive might be if I could buy or trade for a useful item for my paladin

mine seams to be a noob intent on cluttering up my weapon chamber with useless junk:icon_cry:
 

DeletedUser109935

Guest
I honestly don't see a problem with it on this world. With the restrictions and the like. As mentioned it could be used to get into, or even out of someones point range. And personally I think I would be buying some flags. Not earning them fast enough!!

I hope that some of my locals use this though to get themselves up faster!!
 

DeletedUser110464

Guest
maybee a positive might be if I could buy or trade for a useful item for my paladin

mine seams to be a noob intent on cluttering up my weapon chamber with useless junk:icon_cry:

I've heard that on some servers you can actually buy nobles...as long as that's not introduced it's not too bad...it's not the best, but I guess what it means is that I will not be playing any even numbered worlds or paying for The pp upgrades...
 

DeletedUser98295

Guest
this is terrible real money grab first multiple players now slot machines this game has lost its innocence really sad.
 

ashoka1

Guest
Inno is a commercial venture.they are here to make money.

Guys socialism failed long ago.now even Russia and China are capitalists.

If they have introduced pay for win features and you dont like it, dont join it.

In capitalism customer is the king.

If customers font join such worlds with pay to win feature, inno games will stop this after 2/3 worlds.

However if its successful they will do it and may make it a regular feature in every new world instead of alternate.

Think of it like when you go out for shopping or dining.there are so many choices in same restaurant or shop.you buy either what you like or what you can afford.

Or a combination of both.

Its not a perfect world. Do you go and sit outside the restaurant to provide you free food coz you like it but cant afford it.

you dont ..if you guys do...well then carry on here asking for free worlds.

They are still giving you a choice of alternate world without pay to win feature.
 

DeletedUser110464

Guest
Inno is a commercial venture.they are here to make money.

Guys socialism failed long ago.now even Russia and China are capitalists.

If they have introduced pay for win features and you dont like it, dont join it.

In capitalism customer is the king.

If customers font join such worlds with pay to win feature, inno games will stop this after 2/3 worlds.

However if its successful they will do it and may make it a regular feature in every new world instead of alternate.

Think of it like when you go out for shopping or dining.there are so many choices in same restaurant or shop.you buy either what you like or what you can afford.

Or a combination of both.

Its not a perfect world. Do you go and sit outside the restaurant to provide you free food coz you like it but cant afford it.

you dont ..if you guys do...well then carry on here asking for free worlds.

They are still giving you a choice of alternate world without pay to win feature.

Well there is a problem with it still...while many of the old school players who oppose this greatly will not play these worlds, the newer generation of players may take advantage of it and play those worlds. Some people have enough money that they're willing to spend any amount of money if it helps them to get rank 1. So in other words they may have fewer players on those worlds, but they will make bank on them from the people that reduce resource cost/build times on everything plus use the 20% bonus res and buy flags.

IMO the reduced build time can come in handy on some worlds when rushing academy, and so you don't have to wait nearly 24 hours for a level 20 smithy to build. The reduced resource cost is not quite as nice as it kind of makes it so that someone with much more money can spend less res on buildings, making it harder for the more casual players not willing to invest money to keep up with the players using reduced build costs. The 20% bonus res is a thing that i will admit i have used on a couple hp worlds before, but i've only used it for the first few weeks. The cost of 120 pp for a week of bonus res is too much to keep up for an entire world. As far as buying flags goes, as long as they don't make it too easy to obtain the higher level flags it's fine, if people want to waste their money on that go ahead.

Overall I am not entirely opposed to them. They help innogames make more money than people spending 200 pp per month for premium. I have seen people spend over 2k pp in a one week period on these new features, so what you all are saying about less players will not make a difference. They will make the same amount, or maybe even more money regardless. The one thing that I am relieved about is the fact that it will be on every other world. As Ashoka said, if you don't like it, don't join it. I'm going with that route, and i'll continue to play the odd numbered worlds, but I will not play any .net worlds with pay to win features.
 

DeletedUser105659

Guest
Yep. It's arrived. And from a design point of view, it's ugly and intrusive. If the prompts to buy were more subtle, I'd have shrugged it off.

But, jeez, it's right in yer face.

Another "But": I do confess, as I started a late smithy build tonight, it had a certain appeal. You don't question the inconsistency of the argument that 'it will be cheaper if you spend more money' when you are desperate to get your build levels up. And there it is, right there, the carrot of quicker gratification dangling in front of you.

I can understand Inno's motives on this. If I may use an analogy: Some (OK, many) years ago, we had an arcade game in our local bar. People would put their money in, get zonked after a few minutes, then either pay again, or leave it vacant for another punter. Some of us got quite good at it. Eventually, 3, maybe 4 of us would take it in turns to outdo each other. You could be on that thing for 45 minutes at a time, for the one initial slot fee. Income off the machine must have been minimal when we were going hard at each other. When noobs played, income would have inevitably gone up.

Also, I know that if we could have paid a higher slot fee to bypass or shorten the easy initial levels, we would have done so.

Analogy over. It's a basic economic argument here. I don't like it, I'm not condoning it, but it's inescapable. Encouraging impulse buying is where it's at, and the strategy and design of the system only encourages that. You all say "TW is dying". Inno will have a better grasp of the figures than any of us - if they think this might save the game, good luck to them. Equally, if they're just milking the last dregs out of a failing model (like record companies do with 'greatest hits' albums), then they're only doing what comes naturally.

Just don't appeal to their love of the game. They don't have any. It's an income stream, that's all. And when/if it fails, they'll wrap it up and move on to something else. At the end of the day, all of us are nothing more than data in a server.
 
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