Kra-Ka-Koooooom

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sidd 271

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actually it's kinda coll that we declared on ROnin, there are way too many naps in this world otherwise.
 

DeletedUser

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You declared. Not me.
You launched hundreds of attacks on pec and refused to stop. We offered you a significant portion of an account to take - a offer which you accepted - and yet you have continued launching attacks, and have in fact refused to stop unless we give you even more. Given this, we decided to declare.

But Ronin is tragically deserving only of a song parody.
You apparently thought we weren't deserving of a declaration at all, so I really don't see your point there.
 

DeletedUser

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You launched hundreds of attacks on pec and refused to stop. We offered you a significant portion of an account to take - a offer which you accepted - and yet you have continued launching attacks, and have in fact refused to stop unless we give you even more. Given this, we decided to declare.


You apparently thought we weren't deserving of a declaration at all, so I really don't see your point there.

You're either woefully missinformed of the situation or you're spouting a blatant lie. At no point in time did we agree to the terms, I personally said and I quote "that a similar term could be agreed upon." Also I stated I would not stop any on going ops, after the planned ops where finished we could have a non aggression period to work out greater diplomatic issues. My guys are on the other side of the world and I wasn't going to have them leave their nobles unescorted, I think anyone in my position would of done the same.

I also informed Miles on multiple occasion that we had to bring it before our council, and Jennifer said the day of our initial conversation she was not fond of it. I could post the chat log to prove it but.. Come on, I don't think I have to do that to call bullshit.
 

DeletedUser113861

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I quite enjoyed reading this thread. This has been the only real thread on this forum for months.

By a dictionary definition, I suppose we are refugees
We have been opped by you, Ronin, a few times.
But you spoke about me like you were defeating me. You haven't ever capped one single village from me, not one. And i'm pretty sure the others haven't lost a village to you either. We were the core of the former DT and now we're DSy4. And this time there will be no dead\inactive accounts for easy meat.

I know you feel hard done by with dubiously being kicked. He left without setting an account sitter, rather disappointing, he was a good friend. But in all honesty you aren't even getting caps from him! We and NWO are.


Goodluck Ronin, I very much enjoy everything about this
 

DeletedUser84494

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Don't mistake fun for personal affront. PnP isn't meant to be banal calculations and a hand wave of what area is to be taken. It's intended to be fun and passionate and full of vitriol. I can say with the utmost confidence that I have had fun bantering back and forth for the past month - including the snarling and posturing, and we're going to have fun nipping at one another for the foreseeable future. No one on my side will be taking personal offense - but players on both sides will be ranting, raving, gloating, and doing what players do in a game like this one.

That is what PnP is.

Your parody is not PnP, although I am sure you put some sort of effort on it. If you are to use a song, I still maintain this is one of the best uses I have seen as the third post down: http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?268752-Smoke-Rises I was more than a little enamored with how it was set up. It did what it was supposed to do and it did it very well. The song tie-in was extremely well done, and the entire thing, from start to finish, makes it easy to want to side with DSy4 - even if only via gossip.

I also find it amusing that the war broke out because someone recruited DSy4's food and DSy4 had a thing against refugees.

As for your deal, let's be honest here, you couldn't possibly have thought that we would give you dead accounts in the northwest for you to station yourself, then pretend that we were doing anything more than giving the entire north to DSy4. I asked you if our food was worth declaring. You responded.

We have accepted.

As you have said, that is the game.

As an aside, since no one has done it yet, I would like to point out that PWM has been involved in a number of wars and, as they have shown, have a bit of a bite. I find it distasteful to look down on a tribe as small as they are that have done as much as they did when at war. Everyone expects a winner out of the top two, but we all also like an underdog. This world isn't over yet, and many things can cause a tribe to topple and give room for a new contender.

After all, DSy4 was declared dead months ago and Ronin? We have never been a contender. We were TT's food and not given a second thought. We have been threatened by every incarnation of Smoke, by DSy4, by Infect, TT, and many others. Yet by accident we have grown and foolishly gotten ourselves lost up north, ready to die by your hand once and for all.

As has been shown in many worlds, this one included, little tribes have a very dangerous opportunity to make waves - especially in this global tiff. If, of course, DSy4 feels they are worth their time.
J.
 

DeletedUser114370

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I'll post the skype convo, for all to see:
(...) Negotiations, the details of which I'd rather not disclose (...)
And here's where we ended (I'm Miles Van de Wetering, Jennifer is Jennifer, and theforgottenfang is Shadow, accout undisclosed (though we all have our guesses):
[9/1/2014 1:54:00 AM] theforgottenfang: That sounds acceptable.
[9/1/2014 1:54:52 AM] theforgottenfang: But I do want to make one addition to this. I can't cancel on going ops. Things will finish and what is taken is taken. From there hostilities can cease. But I can't tell guys to not escort their nobles. You can stack in response, I'd expect no less.
[9/1/2014 1:58:09 AM] theforgottenfang: People have been saying awful things to Jen when she is in bad moods. Its been a headache keeping us out of war. : )
[9/1/2014 1:58:34 AM] Jennifer: I would not say that I am in a bad mood. I simply find it uncomfortable to be on my knees
[9/1/2014 1:58:35 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: Every good duke is made good by the powers behind the throne, Shadow ;)
[9/1/2014 1:58:42 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: perhaps you are aptly named
[9/1/2014 1:59:03 AM] theforgottenfang: I do my best to live up to my name and my role for the good of my tribe and our queen. : )
[9/1/2014 1:59:20 AM] theforgottenfang: I can only imagine she is rolling her eyes with that title to.
[9/1/2014 1:59:28 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: (rofl)
[9/1/2014 1:59:39 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: Well folks, I'm quite glad to have staved off a war.
[9/1/2014 2:04:37 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: it seems our business is resolved for the moment?
[9/1/2014 2:04:59 AM] Jennifer: I am sure that you do
[9/1/2014 2:05:24 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: I've asked all players to stop launching on any of you, if they were doing so already (I think dl has had a few spats with Classicaus), and also put a pause on the dubiously internal until we can figure out which clusters my folks are taking. I hope to get back to you by this time tomorrow with a list.
[9/1/2014 2:22:03 AM] Jennifer: Very well
[9/1/2014 2:26:35 AM] Jennifer: I would be lying if I said I was pleased with this resolution, but it is difficult to refuse Shadow much of anything. As such, I will bring the offer to the council and let him make his case. I will be in contact with you to finalize the matter
[9/1/2014 2:26:56 AM] Miles Van de Wetering: Thanks.

About 12 hours after this, we had *new* trains inbound to our accounts, not timed with any existing ops, just random opportunistic attacks. I'll let the world judge this particular moment in W70 history, but it certainly seemed to me as if we had reached a resolution. Perhaps I deluded myself, as everyone in my tribe knows I often opt for peace when my council wants war, but in this case war has come.
 
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DeletedUser

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I feel it very clearly dictates that things are going to continue against Pec and I expect you to respond in kind. It had to be brought before the council and I pleaded the case for peace, however the decision was against it. That being said. I do look forward to seeing the weekly stat updates during the war as things progress. (And gods knows it will be a slow one with the travel time.) But it should be a fun war. I look forward to jumping into the front lines and seeing just how good you guys can give. From my time fighting DT solo over the course of a couple months, I know your new recruits aren't worth much. : )

(Seriously? How hard is it to op ONE account that isn't getting tribal support guys? Step up your game Motor, your "ops" on me where embarrassing! )
 

DeletedUser114370

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As I said, the world can judge - obviously we had two very different interpretations of the skype conversation, which can happen.
 

DeletedUser113861

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(Seriously? How hard is it to op ONE account that isn't getting tribal support guys? Step up your game Motor, your "ops" on me where embarrassing! )

haha what are you talking about? we rimmed you
 

DeletedUser

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haha what are you talking about? we rimmed you

Rimmed me... Over the course of three months and after I gave a huge percentage of my villages to friends as well as several clusters to Ronin. I mean.. If "rimming" is you guys taking your sweet ass time in a six versus one, so long that I can give away fifty villages to players on the other side of the map before you guys take twenty, I'll get rimmed by you over any other player in this game.
 
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DeletedUser113861

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.... ill dig out the twstats if you're gonna start making accusations like that. Alot of planning went into that and we easily took 80% of your villages in under a month. Let us not forget you were the #1 biggest account at one stage. That's a lot of enemy villages
 

DeletedUser

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.... ill dig out the twstats if you're gonna start making accusations like that. Alot of planning went into that and we easily took 80% of your villages in under a month. Let us not forget you were the #1 biggest account at one stage. That's a lot of enemy villages


Lets dig into stats then shall we?

From the time of May- June, once I started to actually give away villages, Ronin capped 93 villages, Virus capped 63 villages, and DT? 180ish. (I didn't bother filtering out the ones I recapped.) While yes my previous statement did have a fair bit of hyperbole in it, can you really call it rimming me if I can get nearly half my villages once I give up the ghost to my own guys?
 

DeletedUser84494

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[9/1/2014 3:55:01 AM] Shadow - Talin: That sounds acceptable.
[9/1/2014 3:55:53 AM] Shadow - Talin: But I do want to make one addition to this. I can't cancel on going ops. Things will finish and what is taken is taken. From there hostilities can cease. But I can't tell guys to not escort their nobles. You can stack in response, I'd expect no less.

Ops. Plural. And at no time did we give a deadline for when an op would be finished. If you will notice, no new ops appeared on any other refugees.

Also, I made it rather clear that I was not fond of the agreement, but was willing to let Shadow speak to the council to sway their votes.

I regret to say that you deluded yourself. So convinced you were that we would be able to settle this like adults by giving you absolutely everything without any repercussion, that you decided to poke Shadow with a stick - him being the only player willing to consider letting bygones be bygones for reasons I still don't entirely understand. Because you have a lovely smile and he feels fuzzy inside when you are happy? It's hard to say.

I will politely leave out the details, as well, although I'm not terribly concerned if everyone knows them. I am quite confident that you have already done your damage control to make sure there aren't any "misunderstandings" over what you said. But I will show what set things off. Just because I am sure you would want everyone to know what DSy4 stands for.

[9/2/2014 4:36:38 PM] Miles Van de Wetering: My council recommended that I make a clear and concise statement of DSy4 policy
[9/2/2014 4:36:40 PM] Miles Van de Wetering: so here you are :)
[9/2/2014 4:37:06 PM] Miles Van de Wetering: We cannot tolerate any player, or any tribe, attacking a member of DSy4 with no response either defensively or offensively, or both if required.

We are all about loyalty, honesty and integrity and that is something that DSy4 council is fully committed to. And so we cannot in good conscience make multiple sacrifices in order to preserve a peace that logistically speaking should exist regardless.

As such, DSy4 council has agreed on firstly making defensive moves against our Ronin aggressors to protect ALL members we have in DSy4 from this moment - which we have held off from for the most part whilst talks have been ongoing in the hope of our logic prevailing. We are also considering offensive plans but have yet to put those into motion, whilst talks conclude.

We don't see any benefit to DSy4 in warring Ronin. But nor do we see any benefit to Ronin in warring DSy4 - the south-west of the map is your power base, but the north has always been an area DSy4 made clear we wanted. That clarity has been evident publicly since February and has continued until this day.

We have never taken any other claims to this region legitimately as there have been long-term intents for the NW of W70 becoming DSy4 territory for over half a year. So whilst we do understand, and apologize for, any issue that has come about our recruitment - it was always our intent to do so and no other tribe has as large a claim to the NW as we have had, given our history.
[9/2/2014 6:38:41 PM] Shadow - Talin: [Tuesday, September 02, 2014 4:36 PM] Miles Van de Wetering:

<<< We have never taken any other claims to this region legitimately as there have been long-term intents for the NW of W70 becoming DSy4 territory for over half a year. So whilst we do understand, and apologize for, any issue that has come about our recruitment - it was always our intent to do so and no other tribe has as large a claim to the NW as we have had, given our history.I'd like to point out how rediculous and arrogant this is considering DSY has never had a strong hold in the Northwest region. The world doesn't shape itself because you say you want it. I want the whole core to myself, doesn't mean Infect is giving it to me.

It was fun talking with you Miles but if your tribe is unable to honor refugee camps you really dont have a shred of integrity to be doing diplomacy with in the world.
[9/2/2014 7:19:14 PM] Jennifer: I do believe Ronin made its interest in the north very clear. DSy4 seems to believe a quarter of the map dictates the half. You are not sorry for what you did and you felt I would get on my knees and accept it. While I have no qualms with working alongside DSy4, I am equally content with working alongside others against you
[9/2/2014 7:20:18 PM] Jennifer: I have been far honest in these dealings than you. Far more. I am the spider in the web, Miles, and yet I have been far less deceiving and told far fewer half truths
[9/2/2014 7:21:08 PM] Jennifer: You made a power grab. You are welcome to put me in my place. You are welcome to strike me down for my insolence against DSy4. You are welcome to make me suffer and make me bleed
[9/2/2014 7:22:41 PM] Miles Van de Wetering: You make me out as such a villain Jennifer XD Just doing my best to defend what I can.
[9/2/2014 7:22:41 PM] Jennifer: But please, have the -integrity- to not assume that you do not have refugees from my war in your tribe. Please have the integrity to admit that you provoked me and please, the decency to be better at your subterfuge
[9/2/2014 7:23:12 PM] Jennifer: You are no villain
[9/2/2014 7:23:15 PM] Jennifer: Simply no saint
[9/2/2014 7:23:30 PM] Jennifer: And in no way a victim of my insolence
[9/2/2014 7:23:32 PM] Miles Van de Wetering: (nod) hard to be a saint when you're a duke
[9/2/2014 7:23:40 PM] Jennifer: So it would seem

By your words, you have been gifted half of the map because you want it. My job is to stay down south like a good little player and wait for Infect to finally get around to finishing me off. I am at fault for being so insolent as to believe that my players could move up north.

In your little end-game agreement that is how this world works. But unfortunately I never agreed to your one-on-one final battle. You panicked, you recruited, you postured, you declared. And you declared a war that you feel is not in your better interests.

But you made a small mistake. What is not in your interest is very much in mine.

J.
 
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DeletedUser114370

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Interests change :) We'll have a war, see what happens. I'm sure you will not fold easily, if at all, but my folks are ready for a challenge.
 

One Last Shot...

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By your words, you have been gifted half of the map because you want it. My job is to stay down south like a good little player and wait for Infect to finally get around to finishing me off. I am at fault for being so insolent as to believe that my players could move up north.

I should explain that I helped Miles write that comment to you. I'll paint a picture from DSy4's perspective, and hopefully clarify any false interpretation you might have :)

In January, DSy4 was warring Virus (NW) and Infect (SE) of the map. At that point in time, TT occupied the SW of the map. On returning to DSy4, we privately, and publicly, stated that we would be aiming to get a ceasefire with Infect, and continue to war Virus for the north-west of the map.

Our wars to push north-west have had approximately 2500-3000 nobled villages from enemies in our push to the west, and we have always been very clear we want that region. We chose to recruit 4-5 players, most of whom had not had any attacks from Ronin (so far as I am aware) at the point at which we picked them up. Compare that to the much smaller quantity of long-distance noblings between Ronin and ~DT~, and we felt that there was not much justification for them being labelled as refugees.

That's simply a difference of opinion I guess, as I am sure you feel differently :)

An offer was made, regardless of that, that wouldn't sacrifice loyal, active members who are a part of DSy4. That offer came across as deliberately stalled on from your side (again, difference of perspective) and Ronin was openly attacking DSy4 without showing any sign of interest in a discussion.

There was no reason shown that hanging around any longer for talks with Ronin - whilst being actively attacked by Ronin - would be beneficial and as a war had already been started through launches on us, the only thing to do was to make it more public. At the point of declaration, we had only just began looking at defensive and offensive moves against you, and despite what you seem to believe, that is the truth of the matter.

Anyway, that's my perspective and one I understand to be shared by others on our side. You have your own, very different, perspective and whilst it's a shame that DSy4 wasted its time diplomatically on an issue that so far as I can see we were only ever going to be abused over...it is what it is and DSy4 has to react to provocations ingame.

Also, bringing in Shadow to your tribe after all the manipulation and backstabbing he did on this world, especially to us in DSy4 (which I have huge numbers of logs I could happily wade through) was just a big an insult to us as our recruitment of ~DT~ members was to you.

The only difference was that we know it's wrong to ask a tribe to dismiss members purely because of a personal dislike, and so we let that slide :)
 

DeletedUser

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Also, bringing in Shadow to your tribe after all the manipulation and backstabbing he did on this world, especially to us in DSy4 (which I have huge numbers of logs I could happily wade through) was just a big an insult to us as our recruitment of ~DT~ members was to you.

Please, do not slander my name with the faults of my co players. I am not Katha, I am not Talin, I am not CDN. I am not the myriad of nearly a dozen players who passed through our account, so do not claim that I am. I handled the diplomacy of the southern region because of my relationships with TT at most, and even the Katha handled most diplomatic ventures. (Check this accounts history and you can see I was in Tom's tribe from nearly the start of it until internal conflict drove me away.)

I don't take kindly to these accusations, and the worst I have ever done to your tribe is be part of the reason Latchky turned on you. I always work to protect and taking care of my own.

Also as to the point of war. Until Infect started to really sink into bAd and several key leadership members quit DSY was actually getting pushed back. It wasn't until Talin and Katha started to play less and other members of the bAd council started to quit that things swung the other way. (And no small part of that due to Infects force down south and rising tension with TT.)
 

One Last Shot...

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Shadow, do you honestly not remember talking to me on a diplomatic level for several weeks during your stint as a leader in Virus/Smoke? If so, you need to go back a few months and refresh your memory. Because you did, and you were far worse than CDN ever was.

And that is something I cannot say about anybody else I have ever come across in TW.
 

rickyson1

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Also as to the point of war. Until Infect started to really sink into bAd and several key leadership members quit DSY was actually getting pushed back. It wasn't until Talin and Katha started to play less and other members of the bAd council started to quit that things swung the other way. (And no small part of that due to Infects force down south and rising tension with TT.)

you mean until we were no longer at war with infect too at the same time and tribal support actually became a thing that was possible?

personally I always found it amusing how you guys never could push me back an inch even with the massive front I had with you and pretty much total lack of support
 

DeletedUser

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Shadow, do you honestly not remember talking to me on a diplomatic level for several weeks during your stint as a leader in Virus/Smoke? If so, you need to go back a few months and refresh your memory. Because you did, and you were far worse than CDN ever was.

And that is something I cannot say about anybody else I have ever come across in TW.

Are you joking? My stint as a leader in Virus? I quit the world for the entirety of the spring semester and came back the week CDN dissolved Smoke. And then I was not brought back into the tribe for nearly three weeks, when I was brought back into the tribe Se7 told me I could handle diplomacy, then turned around and took everything I said, told him, and did to make me look like a liar and mail multiple players across the world after telling me I had this position and he had my back that I had no spot in the tribe and to continue to attack and eat me and I would receive no support from the tribe.

And no, I vaguely remember having one or two conversations with you during this time, but I was far busier talking with Ronin, juggling Virus leadership and being actively lied to and conspired against by my own tribe because of the animosity CDN had created towards the account, and trying to create a peace between DT and Virus. DSY? I don't even remember giving you the god damn time of day because you where so insignificant to the immediate problems Virus was facing at that point in time and my own account was facing.

So if I back stabbed you, sorry, I was told I had power, I was told I was trusted, and I was told to believe in the leadership that had my back. On all of those fronts it was a lie and I was left out to dry by the tribe I had spent the last year before my absence building along with Katha and Talin.
 
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