Discussion in 'World 30' started by angrychuck, Dec 12, 2010.
BD was half an idea :icon_cool:
hmmmm... I am being sceptic about this statement of yours Parm. Maybe it has something to do with the world nearing its 2nd anniversary ? BD was for the first half?
On worlds that close, how often do you hear a bout a tribe that was number 1 for the first year and not the last 4
For the most part those are the most famous tribes and the ones considered the best. I'm not sure if you were getting at that point or not though?
I disagree with sfc statement so I was just saying that at the end of worlds it is the tribe that wins that gets the credit and not a tribe that managed to hold the number 1 spot for a year. It can take 4-5 years to finish a world or even longer. I think we have some big wars to go. I know in the southeast BD was never a concern so maybe its the old BD area that is sloppy left overs
I wonder not which what tribes have left a mark, but of players that have come and gone, who of they left a mark worth remembering?
all leave a mark, but who leaves one worth remembering?
I remember you. :icon_wink:
We will all leave a mark somehow but few will be remembered for a long time.
I am actually surprised to be remembered, for whatever reason it may be.:lol:
I think you and Fraser were doing much of the work on that T-W-C frontline back then and we didn't push that much in there.
I was quite far away from that front at that time.
I think me, fraser and another 3 members were doing all the work xD
it was hell, when i was sitting the frontline account against T-W-C
and i already was getting attacked a lot on my own account:lol:
the time i had in w30 was awesome, even though i was in hell the whole way :lol:
Have you not noticed Parm say that his original plan from the start had him joining his old friends in BH?
Outside of that, I have no idea, but I'll take my guess at the plan behind BD and BH (Parm feel free to correct me):
BD and BH are part of a plan put together for w30, but not necessarily one that the leaders of BD knew at the time (methinks it was more of a silent, secret thing that Parm used his stature to quietly move along as his goals coincided with the prolonged success of BD)
BD was designed to be full of all of the start-up pros. Their goal was to set up in the core and eliminate much of the competition from other big names (remember, w30 was the first church world ever and attracted every player with half a name for himself as well as those without a name who saw a new set of strategies to be their opportunity to gain legend status). With THE serving as their core-side rim (gave them a safe backline to avoid being surrounded, just as the real rim does) they were able to kill tribe after tribe. Tardis/DN represented the last core-ish "pro" premade that stood in BDs way.
However, it was known from the start that BD wouldn't stay for the long haul of the world. Start-up specialists rarely do (I consider the entire first year of most worlds as "start-up"). After Tardis fell, BD began to crumble as players wished to move on to their next major start-up venture (ie, they grew "bored with the slow pace of the world and lack of competition"). As some of the more cohesive members of BD moved on, egos sprung up, severely damaging the unity within BD. BD had great player skill and size, but it was sublime teamwork that truly made BD the great power it was. That teamwork and sense of community gradually dissipated.
The BD-Phoenx war, in my opinion, shares many similarities to America's Revolutionary War with BD being Britain and Phoenx being the US. RAM can be France from the sense that they assisted with troops (nukes) and technically helped surround BD in "Yorktown" by attacking BD's eastern flank, but there was no training of Phoenx by RAM nor was there ever any coordination between Phoenx and RAM. Beyond the simple comparison of size, Phoenx felt oppressed by BD to the North and eventually rose up to put a stop to it. BD killed its opponents by launching crazily timed ops, having thousands and thousands of attacks hit all across a front over a 5 minute or less window. The traditional TW op is designed in this sense, tons and tons of attacks hitting at the same time. However, Phoenx never bothered to do timed ops, favoring a "bar-room brawl" style as Pajuno called it. During the Revolution, Britain used the traditional approach of marching both armies within a few yards of each other before all firing at once. The Americans, on the other hand, embodied more of a Guerilla approach which was 100% taboo at the time (was the 18th century version of today's Terrorism). BD wasn't ready for a drawn out "sloppy" struggle, they relied on one or two of their massive ops to break a tribe quickly. With a dissipated sense of teamwork and community they found themselves unable to generate one of those ops as it takes a strong communal effort to execute. Furthermore, sitters became sparse as more people quit and the much of remainder became less willing to sacrifice their personal time for the tribe. So, BD ceased to exist.
That brings me to BH.
BH was designed to be a lasting world power (the obvious goal being to win the world) from its earliest conception. Full of drunk canucks seasoned players, they chose purposefully to start the world 3-4 weeks late to be on the rim. This allowed them to grow and grow without ever attracting much attention to themselves as nobody really pays much attention to the rim for the first many months unless you start on it. So while BD was busy removing a lot of the opposition (and serving as a barricade to keep THE from moving too far south and growing too big), BH quietly laid the foundation for the next years. Carefully picking their wars, and being willing to sacrifice a bit of image by recruiting skilled players at key times (Hammer, DECIDE anybody?) they built themselves a large empire in the northwest of the world. The only tribe that was left in their way was THE. Despite ending the war with Hammer at the start of April and thus (smartly) recruiting what THE called their food, they waited 2 full months before declaring war on THE. Why? Beyond the typical reasons of rest, breaking in their new recruits, internals, replanning strategy, and small tribes, BH was waiting for a definitive tide to turn on the BD/Phoenx war, more likely than not in favor of Phoenx. BH *probably* wouldn't have beaten a combined BD and THE, especially had BD beaten Phoenx. Furthermore, their whole reason to push south was to allow their friends in BD (parm & co) to be close enough to join.
Now today that plan has come to full fruition. Parm and co are with their friends in BH, and seated at rank 2 and 3, each of BH's branches are within 30 mil of the #1 tribe. Combined they make the largest tribe/family in world 30, and have a high percentage of skilled players. BD served its part by attracting attention, destroying competition, and keeping THE from destroying BH too early on, and they will be remembered as the most feared tribe to-date on w30. Now BH is solidly in charge of the northern half of w30's map dominating 30 continents and it will take a major world-changing event to unseat them from their throne.
From a 100% outsider's view, how did I do parm?
I do not know what parm will say for all this, but - hatts off to you for this post asala! And thank you for an almost perfect sumup of this worlds politics and warfare since the 2 year anniversary is imminnent. I most definetly agree with your thesis. :icon_cool:
Asala for president ! :lol:
(dammit - sorry electro et al :lol
robot out :xmas smile:
Hehe, thank you.
My finals are done in a few hours (damn me for being on TW at 3AM instead of studying for my 7AM econ final ) and then I will start preparing a new thread to commemorate our anniversary.*
*This means that everyone is off the hook this year
Castro, it's been a while man, glad to see you around these parts again.
Asa, very interesting take on the BH/BD plan; it's much appreciated (I'm sure it took some time). While I believe luck may have played its own role in how things turned out, BH has, in my opinion, demonstrated a mastery in all aspects of good tribal philosophy and practice that will inevitably overshadow the original kings of W30.
As weird as it may seem, the fall of RAM is the only way that an opposition to BH can be built.
As long as RAM exists in its current shape or form, Phoenx will be relentless to kill Rammites hitlist (cause it's their only thing left to do in this world). BH attacks and pressure can only add up through time.
Legion certainly won't help RAM. I don't see much reasons for Loen to do the same.
As long as RAM exist, BH will have its free ride to glory. :icon_cool:
So BH will certainly make its mark for a long while. I'm not sure that everything they did was as carefully planned as Asa thinks. It can never be that easy. :icon_wink:
BH leaders have proven, among other things, that they are smart careful, patient, mature planners. (unlike some others :icon_rolleyes
P.S. I'm not a family fan, but it can be an asset at this stage of the game, when you have valuable and proven players in your ranks. Not an academy of players that are only used to support fronlines.
Well said. I agree entirely.
and lucky s.o.b's. as well :lol: Takes alot of Beer to make it happen :icon_idea: (and some thousand nukes both directions in my case :icon_razz
Neither am I. This "family" crap designator strikes back at my way of thinking about TW.
This is the key, plus beer and cofee that actually work well enough in BH's case :lol:
There is a president established at the dark side. Your nomination is therefore cancelled! :lol:
And again, splendid posts Asala and Atreus!
robot out :xmas wink:
This thread started promising, so try and keep chit chat out of it Its why we DL Skype people!
Very nice take Asa. I believe you captured the gist of Parms plan nicely. As to the reason why BD broke up, that seems to have eluded even most of it's own membership. Phoenx was a catalyst but BD was by that time but a shadow of it's former self. I believe that Phoenx made several of us hold on a month or so longer. The problem wasn't the fighting style which was classic mid-late game strategy. The problem was mainly that BD was split between two possible directions. I myself quit when the choice was made in favour of one of those as i disagreed entirely. Given that i was one of the heavy sitters that increased the stress on those remaining - most of whom were already thinking of quitting which then led to a chainreaction.
My biggest regret there is that i didn't get to play with ravenj longer, as that is truly one of the single most impressive players that i've ever played alongside (right up there with the likes of Gicusan, Canine-, Booohh, Wildcats, Jubal, AK_Iceman, Parmenion and others like them).
Skelmers/Uzu doesnt see his name up there :/