Mods looking at IP addresses

[DeletedUser]

Recently in world 6 a moderator, Komako, who is playing in that world and therefore not moderating it, let it be known that a post in the forums in the P&P threads was from a player under another name, KingValkyrik. The moderator specifically says that they looked at the IP and know who the player is. http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=17401

Having looked at the rules of the forums I can find nothing wrong with what the player has done. It is after all a P&P forum and I've known that other players in the past have used alias/smurf accounts on the forums to spread propaganda. In fact Lord Haste himself states that he smurfs in this thread, http://forum.tribalwars.net/showthread.php?t=17115 (and yes I know he does it so he can play without being bothered).

Later in the thread you can see that 2 other moderators respond and both appear to be the mods for world 6 (I know Jerran is and I see that SaintandDemon has closed threads so I'm assuming they are also). Jerran confirms Komako's statement that the IP is the same, SaintandDemon threatens the player that if they make more than one account in the forums ever again they will be banned permanently from the forums.

Why am I posting this in the general forum? Because the forum rules state "Every complaint or criticism regarding moderation should be voiced using the support system. If you think your request affects a large part of the community and has to be discussed in public, you can post it in the "General" forum in a non-provoking and well-phrased way."

I believe this affects a large part of the community. Moderators should not be allowed to post about IP addresses in the forums, particularly in a world they are playing in and not moderating. Further there is no rule in the rule set about making multiple accounts except this one, "Breaching of the assigned rules will lead to an initial warning. The creation of other accounts to evade the blocking of the forum account is not allowed and will be punished.
In very extreme cases a permanent account ban can be issued for the forum and for the game."

KingValkyrik was not creating another account to get evade blocking of his normal account. He was creating an alias/smurf account to post propaganda in the propaganda forum. This is not against the rules.

I believe that if anyone broke the rules here it would be the moderators, in particular Komako and SaintandDemon. Komako by looking at the IP address in world they are playing in, and SaintandDemon for threatening a player with a permanent ban for breaking the rules when no rules had been broken.

Sorry for the long post, but it took a bit to try and make it clear. Please discuss.

 

[DeletedUser605]

I'll keep this open, but ... Please keep the discussion to the topic and not about 'bashing' any one.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think as long as not an excessive amount of accounts are made my the same IP, this is completely legit in the form of P&P. Falslifying mails, spreading lies, etc, is all legit propaganda.

I think the moderators shouldn't compromise something like this as it could possibly change the status of the world. When staffers intervene, things get ugly. The more staffers like moderators stay out of world politics, the better.

 

[Rakiavik]

it also sais We reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules. clearely saying that these arnt the only rules, that there are more, just not posted...

I dont see the big deal in a MOD saying that they know that KV made another name to post a message

and for all we know he could have been sitting someone in MCD and have taken that message, which is also agains the rules.

But i see nothing wrong with what the mod did. Simply said that they know that KV was breaking the rules

 

[DeletedUser]

it also sais We reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules. clearely saying that these arnt the only rules, that there are more, just not posted...

I dont see the big deal in a MOD saying that they know that KV made another name to post a message

and for all we know he could have been sitting someone in MCD and have taken that message, which is also agains the rules.

But i see nothing wrong with what the mod did. Simply said that they know that KV was breaking the rules

I see what's wrong. It's perceiving the staff of TW as a whole siding with one side of an argument. If anything, the moderators are there so TW is perceived to be neutral in those situations. If a moderator wants to know the IP, then fine, he can look. But to blatenly to share it on the forums...that's just breaking the barrier between players and the TW staff, one that should not be broken.

Moderators need to keep their comments out of P&P unless it is to shut down a thread that is getting out of hand or has no revelance. That's it. To me, the only words they should be saying is "closed." And also, moderators should not be playing the world seriously. It compromises the game too much.

 

[DeletedUser]

I dont see the big deal in a MOD saying that they know that KV made another name to post a message

But i see nothing wrong with what the mod did. Simply said that they know that KV was breaking the rules

When a mod like komako did what they did, it would be something along the lines of writing a huge propoganda thread so your tribe could gain support and then having a mod say; "This thread isn't propoganda, therefor deleted."

Although my thread is hardly something I'd call long, I still put work into it making sure that Normal players, that Don't have mod powers, could not tell that it was me. I changed my grammar, sentence structure, etc, all in an attempt to hide my identity.

What komako did was completely negate this and it resulted in my own propoganda back-firing upon me. Had komako been a normal player, with no mod powers, this would never had happened and the support for my tribe would have increased, wheras the present result is a decrease.

See where I'm coming from? In my honest opinion it is an abuse of powers, and unless everyone in tribalwars (primarily the players) forums are allowed to see IP addresses of posters then mods shouldn't be allowed to do what Komako did!

 

[DeletedUser]

it also sais We reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules. clearely saying that these arnt the only rules, that there are more, just not posted...

I dont see the big deal in a MOD saying that they know that KV made another name to post a message

and for all we know he could have been sitting someone in MCD and have taken that message, which is also agains the rules.

But i see nothing wrong with what the mod did. Simply said that they know that KV was breaking the rules

As a player can you look up the IP of a poster to compare with other IP's to see if someone is using and alias or not? If you can't then why should a mod that is playing on a world look up an IP to see if it is someone using an alias?

Yes they can ban if you haven't violated the forum rules, I saw that, but that argument did not apply to this case. I'm assuming that this rule is a way to remove someone completely from the game that has broken a rule somewhere, somehow related to Tribal Wars. A rule such as not having an alias account in the forums would need to be a posted rule, not an implied rule due to the very nature of a forum topic like "Politics and Propaganda".

 

[DeletedUser]

I see what's wrong. It's perceiving the staff of TW as a whole siding with one side of an argument. If anything, the moderators are there so TW is perceived to be neutral in those situations. If a moderator wants to know the IP, then fine, he can look. But to blatenly to share it on the forums...that's just breaking the barrier between players and the TW staff, one that should not be broken.

Moderators need to keep their comments out of P&P unless it is to shut down a thread that is getting out of hand or has no revelance. That's it. To me, the only words they should be saying is "closed." And also, moderators should not be playing the world seriously. It compromises the game too much.

I see no problem with mods playing worlds seriously. It allows us players who have difficulties with mods, to take satisfaction in rimming them. I just think they shouldn't be allowed to post things on the public forums that a normal member couldn't/can't see/use.

 

[DeletedUser]

As a player can you look up the IP of a poster to compare with other IP's to see if someone is using and alias or not? If you can't then why should a mod that is playing on a world look up an IP to see if it is someone using an alias?

As far as I know players can't. But I think that was more of a rheotorical question.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes King, it was. lol. Changed it to add a quote so it made more sense.

 

[DeletedUser]

I see no problem with mods playing worlds seriously. It allows us players who have difficulties with mods, to take satisfaction in rimming them. I just think they shouldn't be allowed to post things on the public forums that a normal member couldn't/can't see/use.

Well...although rimming the mods is nice...let's be honest, they shouldn't put their tribe or their grudges on the forum. Nuff said.

 

[DeletedUser]

True enough, I think that when a mod enters a worlds forum that they aren't modding, their mod powers should be stripped away.

So like they could have 1 window open in world 4 p&p where they mod, and they would have all the mod priveledges available. And at the same time they could have another window open in world 6 p&p and they have no mod priveledges.

I don't know if thats possible, but if it is it should be put into effect.

 

[Rakiavik]

When a mod like komako did what they did, it would be something along the lines of writing a huge propoganda thread so your tribe could gain support and then having a mod say; "This thread isn't propoganda, therefor deleted."

Although my thread is hardly something I'd call long, I still put work into it making sure that Normal players, that Don't have mod powers, could not tell that it was me. I changed my grammar, sentence structure, etc, all in an attempt to hide my identity.

What komako did was completely negate this and it resulted in my own propoganda back-firing upon me. Had komako been a normal player, with no mod powers, this would never had happened and the support for my tribe would have increased, wheras the present result is a decrease.

See where I'm coming from? In my honest opinion it is an abuse of powers, and unless everyone in tribalwars (primarily the players) forums are allowed to see IP addresses of posters then mods shouldn't be allowed to do what Komako did!

Dont get me wrong KV, im all for what you did, even if it was against MCD, i understand the propaganda part of it, but if your breaking rules doing so, then i dont agree.

can you understand that?

 

[DeletedUser]

Dont get me wrong KV, im all for what you did, even if it was against MCD, i understand the propaganda part of it, but if your breaking rules doing so, then i dont agree.

can you understand that?

What rule was broken?

 

[DeletedUser]

Dont get me wrong KV, im all for what you did, even if it was against MCD, i understand the propaganda part of it, but if your breaking rules doing so, then i dont agree.

can you understand that?

Of course Rak. But you'd think that someone who has been permanently banned and temporarily banned several times along with recieving dozens of infractions/warnings would know the rules well. And I do. Nowhere in the rules does it state what I did was wrong. Even so, I know nothing is wrong with it as Ender_wiggin himself (a mod) does it.

 

[Rakiavik]

What rule was broken?

TBH, im not sure, all i know is that not all the rules are posted in the rules section, as im sure there are a good number of them. As stated at the bottom of the rules, the reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules

 

[DeletedUser]

TBH, im not sure, all i know is that not all the rules are posted in the rules section, as im sure there are a good number of them. As stated at the bottom of the rules, the reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules

Well, I highly doubt there are any rules not written down in that section. If there were then how could players be expected to follow them? :icon_confused: I think what that bottom part means is for rules yet to be written down/thought of and in-between grey areas. But this is not an un-thought of rule, let alone a grey area, as Ender_wiggin himself uses a forum alias. Along with that fact alone, I used Virus eX Urban in the beginning of world 6 to launch real propoganda for my tribe so I could keep my identity a secret.

 

[Rakiavik]

Well, I highly doubt there are any rules not written down in that section. If there were then how could players be expected to follow them? :icon_confused: I think what that bottom part means is for rules yet to be written down/thought of and in-between grey areas. But this is not an un-thought of rule, let alone a grey area, as Ender_wiggin himself uses a forum alias. Along with that fact alone, I used Virus eX Urban in the beginning of world 6 to launch real propoganda for my tribe so I could keep my identity a secret.

but thats who you play as in world six, so off course thats not wrong, i see no problem with that. Doesnt mean you have to tell us who you are.

 

[DeletedUser]

TBH, im not sure, all i know is that not all the rules are posted in the rules section, as im sure there are a good number of them. As stated at the bottom of the rules, the reserve the right to ban players even if they haven't violated the stated forum rules

They haven't banned him. Further as has been said other players including mods do the same thing (use an alias in the forums). He was threatened with being banned for doing the same thing other players including mods have done. He was threatened by a mod no less. Not to mention that it should never have happened as Komako should never have shared or even looked to see who it was. I can't look and see what IP someone is using to post as a player so a mod who is playing in that world should not be able to either. If they can't fix that via a suggestion such as Kings, then they should be restrained from publishing that information in any way including PM's or IGM's. What King did may not sit well with some, but it was purely propaganda and in the correct thread.

There was no rules violation by King. If there was a rules violation I would like the mods to tell us what it was. There were violations in that thread though. I'd say that some one being able to look and post information that is not readily available to other players is a violation. I'd also say that for a mod to threaten a player with a permanent ban for not breaking any rules is also a violation.

 

[Rakiavik]

They haven't banned him. Further as has been said other players including mods do the same thing (use an alias in the forums). He was threatened with being banned for doing the same thing other players including mods have done. He was threatened by a mod no less. Not to mention that it should never have happened as Komako should never have shared or even looked to see who it was. I can't look and see what IP someone is using to post as a player so a mod who is playing in that world should not be able to either. If they can't fix that via a suggestion such as Kings, then they should be restrained from publishing that information in any way including PM's or IGM's. What King did may not sit well with some, but it was purely propaganda and in the correct thread.

There was no rules violation by King. If there was a rules violation I would like the mods to tell us what it was. There were violations in that thread though. I'd say that some one being able to look and post information that is not readily available to other players is a violation. I'd also say that for a mod to threaten a player with a permanent ban for not breaking any rules is also a violation.

Then how about this

Any Admin, please post yes or no to there being an infraction and what it is please, so all of us can understand

but like i said, i feel what KV did as far as propaganda, is fine, but if there was a rule violation, then its not, and furthermore, if he did it against rules then it should be stated

its like court and a jury, we are the jury, If a statement is said, thats not fitting, the judge states to the jury to disregard that statement, KV's post was his statement to the jury, and if it was wrong and against rules, then it should be dismissed, and us told about it.

If it was legal, and he broke no rules, then im perfectly OK with it, if not, then the propagand attempt was wrong.