New Allies

uhakem

Guest
Actually, It was Omen who I recall helping One in the r4ki war, not the other way around..We had no interest in pushing their direction at the time, but we agreed to declare and launch first, aiming to hopefully divert all of r4ki's attention before you guys had the guts to move in..

After doing this favor for them, we were stabbed in the back in many ways I shouldn't need to explain. If you are trying to achieve anything positive for your tribe from your arguments, I suggest that you don't mention any of the topics that relate to the all of the many times One has walked all over us and committed many acts generally considered to be disloyal, deceitful, conniving, manipulating, and barbaric :)

This has already cost me too much time for my liking. As anyone who pays attention would know, I care little for this place.
oh com on. i remember you just start faking before us but after we killed too many nukes you start your coordinating. you dont remember we were yelling at you in the shared forum about your strategy? indeed you were no where near good. you can ask the ex-r4ki members in omen.
 

Daethon

Guest
Hehe wth??? A week after One did? Are you outta your mind?

We declared and launched first, both on mass scales - and it was for the exact reason I stated in my above post, as agreed on by Des and myself. Omen launched first to divert r4ki's attention south. End of story..

I don't think I need to bother proving that you obviously don't know much. You sure must be dedicated to and following this world to allow yourself to make the mistake you just did :p
He's right though. Your attacks landed more than one week AFTER One declared. By that time we had already taken 150 villages and you took... 3? 4? R4KI's attention wasn't diverted south simply because Omen's attacks meant nothing. One, and mainly AdzDev here, had to kill off tons of R4KI defence just because you didn't do what was planned.

There are enough members of R4KI who can testify One was the only tribe which did a good job versus R4KI.
 

Stalker1988

Non-stop Poster
Actually you were informed of all of our plans...I remember about 2 weeks after we had started launching you were like "wait..what..there was a landing time?" :p

oh com on. i remember you just start faking before us but after we killed too many nukes you start your coordinating. you dont remember we were yelling at you in the shared forum about your strategy? indeed you were no where near good. you can ask the ex-r4ki members in omen.
Omen was a dying tribe at that time. Our entire council were inactive, besides me and an inexperienced (as far as leadership goes) player I had to appoint to help me with the paperwork etc..All of the original Omen members vanished before and during that time. The CATS/Omen merge was the real "rebuild"...So that is understandable.
 
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Daethon

Guest
Actually you were informed of all of our plans...I remember about 2 weeks after we had started launching you were like "wait..what..there was a landing time?" :p
Oi, you never told me your attacks would land after 2 weeks. :p

I figured 2 days would be enough for any offensive.
 

Daethon

Guest
these claims can be easily checked from stats history... no?
A good idea.

Below is a comparison between One and Omen their stats versus R4KI. From the date of their respective declaration until 2 weeks thereafter. I also noticed One declared on R4KI 23 hours after Omen declared, not two days. Anyway, I think the difference is obvious.

Side 1:
Tribes: One
Side 2:
Tribes: R4KI

Timeframe: 16/05/2010 17:00:00 to 30/05/2010 17:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 127
Side 2: 27
Difference: 100





Side 1:
Tribes: Omen
Side 2:
Tribes: R4KI

Timeframe: 15/05/2010 18:00:00 to 29/05/2010 18:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 28
Side 2: 11
Difference: 17



Let's make a further comparison between One and Omen's stats 3 days after their declarations. Once again, I think the difference is obvious.

Side 1:
Tribes: One
Side 2:
Tribes: R4KI

Timeframe: 16/05/2010 17:00:00 to 19/05/2010 17:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 50
Side 2: 9
Difference: 41



Side 1:
Tribes: Omen
Side 2:
Tribes: R4KI

Timeframe: 15/05/2010 18:00:00 to 18/05/2010 18:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 0
Side 2: 1
Difference: 1



To further illustrate, below are Omen their stats versus R4KI 6 days after their declaration.

Side 1:
Tribes: Omen
Side 2:
Tribes: R4KI

Timeframe: 15/05/2010 18:00:00 to 21/05/2010 18:00:00

Total conquers against opposite side:

Side 1: 1
Side 2: 2
Difference: 1



I believe our point is proven well enough.
 

uhakem

Guest
Actually you were informed of all of our plans...I remember about 2 weeks after we had started launching you were like "wait..what..there was a landing time?" :p



Omen was a dying tribe at that time. Our entire council were inactive, besides me and an inexperienced (as far as leadership goes) player I had to appoint to help me with the paperwork etc..All of the original Omen members vanished before and during that time. The CATS/Omen merge was the real "rebuild"...So that is understandable.
and merging with chocho must be another real rebuild. i wonder how did they accept to merge with you as they saw how you acted in the war.:icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:
you may be a good player and leader but you have acted too poor in the wars and diplomacy. i remember your wrong behaviors as an ally when we where in wp and we saw how you worked with us when we went to one.
 

AllAheadFull

Guest
Different Take

Guys,

Guess I have a different take on this. Why does the past battle against R4KI matter so much? Anyone that looks at the stats will admit One took many more R4KI villages than Omen thus winning the battle. Anyone that looks at the boards can see that Omen declared first thus taking the risk. A read of the pnp before/after this event indicates Formz was the main architect along with Mitsche/Stalker/Des. While this quartet managed a pretty successful pnp campaign against R4KI the group seems to have broken down thereafter. The players all seem pretty active, so it seems the lack of communications was a choice on all sides, no?

Perhaps we should focus on the reasons ChoCho changed the structure by merging with Omen? Seems to be their limited options, no? The leadership had rl issues and they needed to do something to preserve their tribe. Heck look at Mitsche alone trying to merge/build/maintain what is by far the largest account in w45. Running a tribe like ChoCho would have been too much, right? From what I hear and believe there were active discussions to merge ChoCho into One. Wouldn't that have upset the balance even more than where things are now? I guess only Des and Mitsche/Albert know the complete facts here, but everything I am told indicates One was in active discussions about ChoCho MERGING with One around the same time ChoCho selected Omen. I can tell you many of the backbench players in Omen were surprised by the quick timing of this merge so it certainly doesn't seem like a long planned exercise. Of course, the notification on either side could have been handled better, but let us not argue about betrayal. ChoCho folks had limited options in front of them - it seems merge with One or Omen were the choices. We have to grant them they did what was best for their tribe.

AAF
 

Daethon

Guest
Perhaps a choice on their part, but not on mine. After the war, I sent Stalker and Mitsche as many mails as possible, and guess what happened? Half of the times they didn't reply, and when I wanted to solve a problem they tended to ignore me for several days. And then they wonder why I was starting to become rude... :icon_rolleyes:

Pheh, I knew Mitsche wasn't able to lead a tribe ever since the R4KI war, since he told me back then he wouldn't have enough time. It was agreed Mitsche would deliver me the north, an agreement he obviously hasn't lived up to. If I would've known he would've betrayed me like this, I would've recruited all of the ex-R4KI players who wanted to be in One, like Zindra, BudSirius, etc, and would've declared war on the rest of his tribe. If I would have wanted to, ChoCho would never have existed in the first place. It's like a dog that bit off the hand that has fed him for years, finding a new boss.

And let me tell you where ChoCho's hypocrisy is in all this: a mail from Albert Moulton that just infuriated me. I'll paste some pieces of it here.

Albert Moulton on 27.07. at 17:02
In short, I am concerned that it may be too early to merge since a 3-core tribe system while rim tribes are still active might be more stable than a 2-core tribe system.
Albert Moulton on 28.07. at 05:04
I think the 3-tribe system might be more stable for the next six months. But I am curious whether you think 2 tribes or even one tribe now would be better or more stable. It just seems early still to go down to a max of 100 allied accounts. 150 max gives more room for some players on the rim who are growing to join and take over from rim players who go inactive and quit.
Albert Moulton on 28.07. at 15:54
But, in general, I don't think there should be any urgency to merge when our current strategy is working well.
You get the idea. First this big hypocrit annoys me to hell with this unproven statements about "a 3 tribe core system being more stable", effectively destroying relations between One and ChoCho, and THEN he is one of the driving powers behind the Omen-ChoCho merge, effectively creating the most unstable 2 tribe core system. Leaders such as him should be forbidden.
 

Easy.Farm

Guest
Maybe you should think, what changed after these mails? Or the only option in your eyes is that he had the plan to merge with Omen even back then?
 

Jurasu

Guest
Due to the fact I went to bed after my last post, I'll be updating this post with my replies.

If Omen wanted to conserve our alliance in its good state AND merge with ChoCho, they should've communicated with me about it all the way. I had to drag Stalker to Skype to hear an half-assed explanation about how his members didn't want to merge because the top tribes wouldn't be "balanced" anymore. Basically the biggest amount of bullcrap I've ever heard.
You had to drag Stalk to skype? Stalk's one of the most skype active people I know.

And a war wouldn't honestly take a year. If we war, the world will slowly bleed to death due to the massive amount of stacking and fakes. But seeing as One is familiar with that kind of war, I'm perfectly fine with that. I haven't seen some of my members this pissed at another tribe since the war with R4KI.
I'm starting to wonder how familiar you really are with a world of this speed. On W16 I'm a member of C². There, we had a war with a tribe called CND. It last for around six months before the war ended by mutual agreement and a merge. We are also approaching the one year anniversary since war was declared between C² and =HRV=/LSHRV/SF (they've had a couple name changes). Though one side is obviously winning that war, it is still no where near over, and that world is faster than this one is. If it should come to a war between One and Omen, I only see two possible outcomes. One tribe will end up having a major weakness somewhere (inactives, poor players who managed to hide it thus far, etc.) and the other tribe will exploit it and keep up the pressure. The other is that the borders will get massively stacked and any conquer will be a hard fought battle to take and keep.

Dude, I practically engineered everything what happened back then. I didn't see you in the Skype chat with Stalker, Mitsche, formz and me. I know everything there is to know, while you know what? That you needed to attack R4KI eventually? :lol:
Wow, your memory really is surprising. I remember Formz being the main driving force behind everything. Did it ever occur to you that there can be more that one chat formulated about the same topic? We had one for myself, Whome, Stalk, Formz, and some of the other Omen leaders at the time (long since quit).

I didn't say Stalk isn't a good leader or that he wanted to quit, I just said he doesn't want to lead. Learn to read.
I never suggested you did. I was giving evidence that he didn't show any signs of wanting to quit the leadership. And let's try to stick to what I actually said rather than play a semantics game with me.

Strange, since I didn't see your name in the chats that actually mattered. :icon_rolleyes:
I guess if they didn't include you they didn't matter :icon_rolleyes:

We are allies. I also had an agreement with Stalker and Mitsche. Do I have to go on or will you finally realize it's actually quite logical to have done what I asked?
Yes, we are allies. That means we don't attack each other, and we work together should an enemy threaten another, should aide be required. No where in that agreement requires us to discuss everything we plan to do with you before actually doing it. That's just what you want.

Quite logical? It's logical to merge into a tribe lead by a guy who hasn't treated us well since the end of the R4KI war?

I'm not playing this game. As long as we know it's happening, it's all right.
But we don't know its happening. You claim to know more than I do, then fail to prove it. Either you prove it, or its an invalid statement.

Did we recruit enemies of you without asking permission? Hehe. I'd like to hear a few names then.

We recruited those two with permission from Stalker. He even agreed when I said you were overreacting. You liar.
We gave permission to recruit Default, but not Sherlock. We thought Sherlock was our spoils of the war, and then all of the sudden Default turned around and claimed them all, and told us we couldn't noble any. You put us off for quite a while, and then denied any agreement we tried to make without trying to compromise with us. Then you followed that up by recruiting Perpetual Inebriation, who ran right along our border, without even trying to tell us.

Originally I asked Default to hold off on nobling Sherlock so that we could talk with you first, which lead to the follow conversations, one a skype conversation and the other an in-game mail. Both times you simply stopped talking to us about the matter without even trying to compromise.

[spoil][6/13/2010 8:00:16 PM] *** Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade added Justin/Jurasu, Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger. ***
[6/13/2010 10:41:28 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Ok Des I've added Justin and Whome
[6/13/2010 10:41:59 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Justin is our head diplomat and Whome the co duke of Omen
[6/13/2010 10:43:54 PM | Edited 10:44:23 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Since Default. and me were unable to work anything out, I basically had to resort to getting all 3 of us into this room and discussing a possible solution. I didn't really want to make any decisions on my own as I stated earlier.
[6/13/2010 10:44:53 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Oh and if you have any other diplomats or anyone in leadership you'd like to add then do so
[6/14/2010 4:06:21 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: alright :)
[6/14/2010 4:06:28 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: nah, i'll stick to being alone here :p
[6/14/2010 2:51:15 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You were talking at 4:06AM for both Whome and myself
[6/15/2010 3:24:14 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: heh
[6/15/2010 2:44:50 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Hey Des, you still on?
[6/15/2010 2:45:16 PM | Removed 2:45:27 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: This message has been removed.
[6/15/2010 2:45:23 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes
[6/15/2010 2:45:40 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You got time to talk now?
[6/15/2010 2:45:46 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: sure
[6/15/2010 2:46:09 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Ok, so pretty obviously I (we) wanted to talk about the situation with Default trying to claim all of Sherlock's villages
[6/15/2010 2:47:38 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We were ok with One recruited a good number of R4KI players, and we didn't take any ourselves. So now we find it very unfair to have one of those ex-R4KI member trying to claim all of the villages of the only R4KI player we are trying to noble at this time.
[6/15/2010 2:50:05 PM] Justin/Jurasu: So now we have to find some way to compromise about this. I already know Default's position. He thinks that all of Sherlock's villages rightfully his.

On our side, we already feel as if we've given up much more to One, letting them recruits many of the active players and the territory that came with them, than we would gain just from nobling Sherlock, yet doing so would make our members happy.
[6/15/2010 2:50:34 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: did you already talk it over with stalker
[6/15/2010 2:50:50 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: because default agreed on giving those 10 claims to stalker
[6/15/2010 2:52:02 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Yes, I talked that part over with Stalker. Stalker said that he personally only wanted those 10 claims, but I think Default interpretted that in a different way, that as a tribe we only wanted those 10 claims. If you think about it, that would be pretty illogical to only ask for 10 villages after helping you in a war.
[6/15/2010 2:52:44 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And I can already see that Default didn't waste any time to let us talk this out with you first. He's already nobled 32 Sherlock villages in the last 3 days
[6/15/2010 2:54:14 PM] Justin/Jurasu: To clarify that, we still see those 32 villages as Sherlock villages, since we asked Default to stop nobling them until this was figured out, so on our side of the table, we will want those 32 villages back
[6/15/2010 2:54:42 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i'm afraid that's not going to happen :/
[6/15/2010 2:55:27 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: And why not?
[6/15/2010 2:55:59 PM] Justin/Jurasu: The alternative that we were considering was us claiming that Default is a refugee and ask that you kick him. We thought that you wouldn't care to do that, which is why we ask Default to wait in the first place. He went against our wishes and didn't even let us talk to you first.
[6/15/2010 2:55:59 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i can't just go giving away 32 villages from one of my members
[6/15/2010 2:56:19 PM] Justin/Jurasu: 32 villages that we had claimed as part of our only spoils of this war
[6/15/2010 2:56:23 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: Sure you can. Default is showing no respect to you ally, he knew this was an issue and should have respected us
[6/15/2010 2:56:43 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: there is no rush in him nobling these villages
[6/15/2010 2:56:59 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: well, there is
[6/15/2010 2:57:06 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: we want our area consolidated asap
[6/15/2010 2:57:11 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: you area?
[6/15/2010 2:57:23 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: that's the issue here
[6/15/2010 2:57:36 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Who do you have to worry about? Its you guys, us, and what's left of R4KI. You obviously don't have to worry about us, and I doubt R4KI is going to bother you
[6/15/2010 2:58:21 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I never ask for much from allies, but I expect respect
[6/15/2010 2:58:37 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: leaving inactives and the like around is not a good plan
[6/15/2010 2:58:50 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Before this war, we also saw K64 as our area. You only gained dominance by recruitng Default and his recent mass nobling. So what we are worried about is Default encroaching upon our territory
[6/15/2010 2:58:55 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: your right, which is why we have been preparing to noble him out
[6/15/2010 2:59:01 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: who else is going to noble him?
[6/15/2010 2:59:09 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: there is no threat there from anyone
[6/15/2010 2:59:32 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: it looks like you've got more than enough targets though :/
[6/15/2010 2:59:47 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and we have asked for nothing out of t his war, even though we "potentially" had enemies on both of our sides, unlike anyone else in our alliance
[6/15/2010 3:00:06 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: not for 1/2 of our tribe.. they have nowhere to expand if sherlock is not an expansion spot
[6/15/2010 3:00:14 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Forgive me, my skype is lagging somewhat so some of my answers may be delayed
[6/15/2010 3:00:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: because once they take sherlock they can continue moving north, and you expect us to be boxed in?
[6/15/2010 3:00:43 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: come now, you've been eating inactives for months now :/
[6/15/2010 3:01:12 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: stalker said it'd be pretty much those and rim targets for now
[6/15/2010 3:01:29 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: with the occasional P-Ctrl member thrown in between
[6/15/2010 3:01:31 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: thats got nothing to do with wht were discussing here
[6/15/2010 3:01:52 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: there is no further expansion to be had in default's area really
[6/15/2010 3:02:00 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: simz is back, so that area is shut off
[6/15/2010 3:02:21 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: there's still mikepowa who ran to SRA
[6/15/2010 3:02:36 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I am asking that you show our tribe respect, and tell your member to stop what he is doing. I dont think that is much to ask
[6/15/2010 3:02:50 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: he is your new member and you are the duke
[6/15/2010 3:03:18 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: sherlocks villages will have little impact on your tribe, but our guys not being able to access them will definitely hurt our tribe
[6/15/2010 3:03:19 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: for now, it is best he continues nobling. if there are villages to be gifted, he can gift it from his own account
[6/15/2010 3:03:29 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: leaving inactives sitting around isn't smart
[6/15/2010 3:03:41 PM] Justin/Jurasu: How is it best that he continues nobling, and best for who?
[6/15/2010 3:04:05 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I am asking that you show our tribe respect, and tell your member to stop what he is doing. I dont think that is much to ask
[6/15/2010 3:04:19 PM] Justin/Jurasu: A lot of our eastern members expected to expand north through R4KI. Now the war's over, most have gone to you or ChoCho, and now the only member left in range is suddenly claimed by a single, ex-R4KI player?
[6/15/2010 3:04:43 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes, and you still expect there to be expansion up there?
[6/15/2010 3:06:56 PM] Justin/Jurasu: There is still Sherlock in K64, which will allow us to "consolidate our area"
[6/15/2010 3:07:42 PM] Justin/Jurasu: As it is now, we feel as if we are being taken advantage of. We were brought in to war the number 1 tribe, and suddenly the tribe we thought was our closest ally recruited most of that tribe and is letting those new recruits push us around. It isn't going to happen. If necessary, we will noble Default along with Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:08:25 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: come now, let us not start with idle threats
[6/15/2010 3:08:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: They aren't idle threats, and its not in our best wishes
[6/15/2010 3:08:41 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: There is NO REASON our two tribes should have any strain over ONE MEMBER
[6/15/2010 3:08:43 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I'm letting you know that we are serious about this, and won't be pushed around
[6/15/2010 3:09:12 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: it is completely ubsurd
[6/15/2010 3:09:18 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You asked US if you could recruit Default. We agreed. Now HE is telling US what we can and can't noble
[6/15/2010 3:09:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I'm not going to let my actions be dictated by a player who's no better than a refugee
[6/15/2010 3:09:40 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I need you to be the leader you are and tell DEfault to suck it up and show us respect
[6/15/2010 3:09:51 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i understand your point, but i don't see the problem considering the fact you have tons of inactives to noble out AND rim tribes AND P-Ctrl
[6/15/2010 3:10:04 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: its location..
[6/15/2010 3:10:15 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: look at the map.. our guys who were fighting r4ki now have 0 targets..
[6/15/2010 3:10:23 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Western members, mostly ex-CATS have tons of expansion. It's the original Omen members we are fighting for now
[6/15/2010 3:10:26 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and that is not fair to them
[6/15/2010 3:11:36 PM] Justin/Jurasu: i understand your point, but i don't see the problem considering the fact you have tons of inactives to noble out AND rim tribes AND P-CtrlAnd obviously we can say the same about you with the northern area of R4KI and that entire rim area east and south of you. And I know that no tribe is without its own inactives
[6/15/2010 3:12:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I dont understand why this has gone this far. Des, how long have you known that Sherlock was going to be eaten by Default?
[6/15/2010 3:12:53 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: when he posted it in the forum :/
[6/15/2010 3:13:23 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And you plan to allow that? You are going to allow a player you just recruited rather than rimming to push around your ally?
[6/15/2010 3:13:47 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: ok.. so basically Default gets an invite, Sherlock does not. they decide to "merge"
[6/15/2010 3:14:04 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: that was not part of any agrement we had with you about Default.. this is just plan silly
[6/15/2010 3:14:12 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: what would those 30 villages even gain you?
[6/15/2010 3:14:23 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: 1 week of expansion for about 3 members?
[6/15/2010 3:14:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: we are mainly trying to find villages for members in a certain area to expand
[6/15/2010 3:14:48 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: as opposed to one of your new recruits.. yes definitely
[6/15/2010 3:14:52 PM] Justin/Jurasu: The 30 villages now isn't about expansion, its about showing Default, and the rest of your tribe if necessary, that we are equals and aren't going to let you push us whatever way you like
[6/15/2010 3:15:08 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: even if only 3 of our members benefit, they deserve it before Default
[6/15/2010 3:15:13 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: so what do you want? 30 villages?
[6/15/2010 3:15:16 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We specifically asked Default not to noble those until we could talk to you. He blatantly ignored us and did it anyways
[6/15/2010 3:15:21 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: we want Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:15:29 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We want Sherlock, and any villages Default has nobled off him since joining One
[6/15/2010 3:15:33 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and the villages he has nobled in t he past 3 days.. he knew what he was doing
[6/15/2010 3:15:45 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and he knew we were not ok with it
[6/15/2010 3:15:58 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: he asked Stalker, stalker never gave him the Ok,, ive read the mails
[6/15/2010 3:16:18 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: im not sure what default told you..
[6/15/2010 3:16:53 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: hmm
[6/15/2010 3:17:07 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: alright, let me have a talk with my barons and default
[6/15/2010 3:17:11 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: we'll see what he'll have to say
[6/15/2010 3:17:24 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i'll get back to you as soon as i can
[6/15/2010 3:17:28 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Can we ask that you tell him immediately to stop all nobling actions?
[6/15/2010 3:17:41 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We aren't going to let him use this as a ploy to continue nobling while you talk it out with your barons
[6/15/2010 3:18:04 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: relax, we can still gift stuff to you from his account
[6/15/2010 3:18:13 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: if there was any miscommunication, it was because Stalker sid that he had 10 claims he was 100% still going to take and said he would have to discuss this with the other leaders and the local members.. I am assuming Default took that as an ok
[6/15/2010 3:18:22 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I doubt Default is simply going to give up villages he's already taken because you told him to
[6/15/2010 3:18:50 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: Des, just tell him to stop nobling.. he wont lose $$ from the nobles etc..
[6/15/2010 3:19:51 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And we won't relax while all we are getting is vague answers. We want definites.
[6/15/2010 3:20:24 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i cannot give definite answers as long as i haven't spoken to him
[6/15/2010 3:20:40 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: but i can tell you that you will indeed get your share
[6/15/2010 3:21:21 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I mean vague when you said "I'll talk with my barons and Default."

There were no specifics there. That's what I mean by definite answers
[6/15/2010 3:21:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And as for share, I hope you mean share of the spoils rather than share of Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:21:47 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes, a share of spoils
[6/15/2010 3:21:59 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Again, you see how I interpretted that as vague?
[6/15/2010 3:22:11 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: all of sherlocks villas is a good start :)
[6/15/2010 3:22:20 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I know you probably didn't mean it that way, but I always like sure, definite answers in this game where anyone is liable to stab you in the back[/spoil]

[spoil]
Jurasu on 17.06. at 05:00
Mailing you this since we have trouble catching each other online because of time differences.

Default has now nobled a total of 41 villages from Sherlock, according to TWstats. 9 more since we've talked to yesterday.

Desmaroth on 17.06. at 10:08
We have not yet come to a full decision about the subject, but Omen getting the complete Sherlock account seems impossible, so a compromise will have to be made.

Jurasu on 17.06. at 21:08
I'm keeping you up to date on what Default's been up to. We don't plan to just let him keep nobling them all while you talk.

And we tried to compromise with Default before. We asked him to stop nobling while we talked it out. Instead, he claimed that ALL were his and continued to noble them.

And I don't see how letting us have all of the Sherlock account (including what Default has taken so far) is so hard after looking at everything One got after the war. You take Sherlock from us, then we got absolutely nothing as spoils of war.

Jurasu on 18.06. at 22:57
47 villages now.

And why have you suddenly recruited PI as well, without even talking to us this time.

Be straight up with me. From past experience, it seems that you are preparing for a war with us. You are recruiting members all around us, taking more than your fair share of the spoils of war, giving us the run-around, and pretty much altogether refusing to cooperate. So tell me the truth. What is going on?

Desmaroth on 22.06. at 22:27
I have been away since the 17th, so I could not mail you back.

Default will continue taking villages until we have come to an arrangement. If it is agreed that you will get villages, Default will give them up. I'm not letting inactive villages laying around.

PI was not situated in Omen territory, unlike Default. We talked it over with ChoCho and they gave us the green light.

There is nothing going on. We are not prepping for war against you or anything.

Jurasu on 23.06. at 03:29
Yea, I just learned that from Adzdev yesterday. I thought you had just started ignoring me.

I didn't say PI was situated in Omen territory. He is, however, right along our border. I have villages within sight of his in K54 and K43, neither of which really seemed to be One territory either.

I also noticed yesterday that Default is now claiming villages in K53 as well, which definately is Omen territory, devoid of a single One village (thus far). All of this happening all at once is just making us worry.

That's good to hear.

Desmaroth on 23.06. at 08:30
PI was in unclaimed territory, really. As with Default, the new owner of PI didn't want to join any tribe, except One. Either we recruited him or he went solo, which could've been a dangerous situation for all of us.

Jurasu on 26.06. at 05:35
I now see that you have recruited Sherlock as well. Now my tribemembers are upset because they feel you are preventing them from even nobling those few Sherlock villages that are left while this is decided.

I'm not the only one growing impatient. My members are losing patience as well. We wish to have this resolved in a very timely manner, or else my members plan to noble all the Sherlock villages, including those Default.

Desmaroth on 26.06. at 21:18
Honestly, you are not seeing your priorities right. With all those members quitting and rim tribes ready to attack you, I honestly don't think giving a few free villages to some lazy members will do you any good.

Focus on the rim, not on a deadlocked continent.

Jurasu on 26.06. at 21:32
The villages aren't a priority. It's the way they were taken. You guys in One took Default in after talking to us, as he was a recognized refugee from R4KI. Then that same player turns right around, demands all of Sherlock's villages, and ignores anything we tell him.

If we let a refugee dictate what we can and cannot noble, how long will it be before the rest of your tribes starts to force us around? Should we let you noble our inactives too just because you are bigger than us? Should we give up several continents as tribute because you demand it? No, we don't plan to take this. I told you before that all we wanted was Sherlock. The only other alternative was that we noble both Sherlock and Default.

Now its up to you. Do you really want to start a war with one of your allies over a problem a refugee is causing, or do you want to give us the one thing we asked for after the end of the war?

Desmaroth on 26.06. at 21:57
Well, do you want to start a war? You seem eager.

We are not pushing you around, whatever way you look at it. The fact remains that you are not getting the complete Sherlock account, or the villages that once belonged to him. We do not feel your effort during the war was enough to claim such a prize. Now, if you'd come up with a serious deal, we could negotiate a part of the Sherlock account...

Jurasu on 26.06. at 22:10
Eager to start a war? No. Adamant about not allowing our so-called allies to push us around? Yes.

And One did enough to recruit almost every active member of R4KI?

We've been trying to negotiate since the beginning. That was the whole reason that we told Default to wait so that they could be divided up between One and Omen, he chose to ignore us, which is now why we want to take all those that he's taken in that time back. We put forward our claim and made it clear as day. It has been you and the council of One, whom you told us you would talk to about this matter weeks ago, that we have been waiting on.

Desmaroth on 26.06. at 22:56
I told Default to continue nobling because (and I have told you countless times) it is foolish to leave inactives lying around.

Your proposal was the complete Sherlock account. We say no.

Jurasu on 26.06. at 23:16
Should there be a threat of a third party, I can see your reasoning. Since it is just Omen and One bordering it, I see no problem with leaving it, especially since someone has the sitting for Sherlock.

Negotiating entails both sides making offers. I've yet to see that from you.

Desmaroth on 26.06. at 23:22
The faster those villages get nobled out, the faster they can build troops again, the faster those troops can be used against an enemy. There are tons of enemy tribes to go around, so I see a lot of reasons to noble out Sherlock. =/

Jurasu on 26.06. at 23:35
Let's not go on a tangeant argument now.

A counter-offer?

Desmaroth on 26.06. at 23:44
We have not thought of a counteroffer.

Jurasu on 26.06. at 23:46
You know, you aren't doing much to make me feel like I'm not being given the run around.

Desmaroth on 27.06. at 00:14
What can I say? I believe offers should come from the side that asks for change. =/

Jurasu on 27.06. at 03:42
We made an offer. You flat out denied it after two weeks of waiting. You obviously weren't happy with what we offered, so you make an offer you think is acceptable.
[/spoil]

And we are protecting those tribes because we are being bullied. This is actually quite logical; I'm surprised you can't follow.
I don't follow because your reasoning makes no sense. We aren't bullying you in any way. We merged with ChoCho, and then Albert made a post on the PnP forums saying we want to continue our alliance as equals. Then you just surprised us with this whole matter about defending the rim tribes around us.

I have no contempt for anyone. I treat everyone who treats my tribe like an enemy, like this. However, as soon as things settle or as the other side is defeaten, I am merciful. Heck, I P&P'ed a lot of R4KI players during the war, but you haven't noticed I recruited many of them after the war? Heck, many of them are now in the One council. So contempt my ass.
You've treated us as if we were a step below One from the time R4KI merged into One and you became bigger than us.

The stronger strategy? Hah, don't make me laugh. Anyone can merge, even the biggest noob. However, it takes a great leader to break up your former tribe because the leader turned mad, start a new one while some of the biggest members defect to a bigger tribe, have the guts to continue and rebuild the tribe to eventually take vengeance on the people who defected and on the top tribe which was going to kill you off if you wouldn't have watched out. Guess which person I just described? It isn't Jurasu. :icon_wink:
Ooo Ooo! Pick me! Pick me! I know this one! It was...

...Formz!

If all Jurasu can do, is merging, I'd say he's a poor diplomat. And yes, our opinions matter because our opinions speak the truth. Of course, you can go ahead and keep living in your dream world where merging two tribes is suddenly a great feat that has never been done before and is an indication of greatness.
The funny thing is, I wasn't the main one to bring up the merge. Mitsche and Stalk were since they were friends. I just helped with details.

And "diplomat" is probably a very vague term for what I do for Omen.
 

EdwardT19

Guest
One is proud to present their new allies: P-Ctrl, Ash, =DARK= and Howl!

For more information I will copy the message I posted in our shared forum with Omen.
i believe that was the subject of this thread :icon_rolleyes:
 

RokasX

Guest
They are on topic.. they arguing about if wat either of them did is right or wrong
 

Daethon

Guest
You had to drag Stalk to skype? Stalk's one of the most skype active people I know.
Then that further backs up my statement that Omen/ChoCho neglected One, and not the other way around. I always had to drag Stalker to Skype.

I'm starting to wonder how familiar you really are with a world of this speed. On W16 I'm a member of C². There, we had a war with a tribe called CND. It last for around six months before the war ended by mutual agreement and a merge. We are also approaching the one year anniversary since war was declared between C² and =HRV=/LSHRV/SF (they've had a couple name changes). Though one side is obviously winning that war, it is still no where near over, and that world is faster than this one is. If it should come to a war between One and Omen, I only see two possible outcomes. One tribe will end up having a major weakness somewhere (inactives, poor players who managed to hide it thus far, etc.) and the other tribe will exploit it and keep up the pressure. The other is that the borders will get massively stacked and any conquer will be a hard fought battle to take and keep.
You didn't read what I said, right? You didn't, or you wouldn't be largely repeating me.

Wow, your memory really is surprising. I remember Formz being the main driving force behind everything. Did it ever occur to you that there can be more that one chat formulated about the same topic? We had one for myself, Whome, Stalk, Formz, and some of the other Omen leaders at the time (long since quit).
Formz was the driving power until Stalker accidently ran his mouth and formz was found out. And when Mitsche betrayed the cause, I can still remember Stalker being enormously happy for the fact I was still on his side. I wonder where all that gratitude went...
Ah, good for you. And how much talk was going on there? Can it match the hundreds of messages every few days we had for several weeks? :icon_rolleyes:
You seem to know too little about the war back then to back up your statement.

I never suggested you did. I was giving evidence that he didn't show any signs of wanting to quit the leadership. And let's try to stick to what I actually said rather than play a semantics game with me.
And since I never said Stalker wanted to quit the leadership, we don't have a problem here now, hmm?

I guess if they didn't include you they didn't matter :icon_rolleyes:
Without One, the whole operation would have been a large failure. So yes, indeed.

Yes, we are allies. That means we don't attack each other, and we work together should an enemy threaten another, should aide be required. No where in that agreement requires us to discuss everything we plan to do with you before actually doing it. That's just what you want.
Then we have different opinions about the definition of an alliance. I regard an alliance to be a bond of friendship firstly. It is common courtesy to inform your ally when doing something major like this.

Quite logical? It's logical to merge into a tribe lead by a guy who hasn't treated us well since the end of the R4KI war?
If I still remember right, it was you who was being rude in the discussions about Default and Sherlock. We didn't have any other problems with Omen. I always was friendly in our negotiations. Find me one thing I did wrong. :)

But we don't know its happening. You claim to know more than I do, then fail to prove it. Either you prove it, or its an invalid statement.
It's not a statement I'm trying to prove to the world.

We gave permission to recruit Default, but not Sherlock. We thought Sherlock was our spoils of the war, and then all of the sudden Default turned around and claimed them all, and told us we couldn't noble any. You put us off for quite a while, and then denied any agreement we tried to make without trying to compromise with us. Then you followed that up by recruiting Perpetual Inebriation, who ran right along our border, without even trying to tell us.

Originally I asked Default to hold off on nobling Sherlock so that we could talk with you first, which lead to the follow conversations, one a skype conversation and the other an in-game mail. Both times you simply stopped talking to us about the matter without even trying to compromise.

[spoil][6/13/2010 8:00:16 PM] *** Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade added Justin/Jurasu, Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger. ***
[6/13/2010 10:41:28 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Ok Des I've added Justin and Whome
[6/13/2010 10:41:59 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Justin is our head diplomat and Whome the co duke of Omen
[6/13/2010 10:43:54 PM | Edited 10:44:23 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Since Default. and me were unable to work anything out, I basically had to resort to getting all 3 of us into this room and discussing a possible solution. I didn't really want to make any decisions on my own as I stated earlier.
[6/13/2010 10:44:53 PM] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Oh and if you have any other diplomats or anyone in leadership you'd like to add then do so
[6/14/2010 4:06:21 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: alright :)
[6/14/2010 4:06:28 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: nah, i'll stick to being alone here :p
[6/14/2010 2:51:15 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You were talking at 4:06AM for both Whome and myself
[6/15/2010 3:24:14 AM] Daethon/Desmaroth: heh
[6/15/2010 2:44:50 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Hey Des, you still on?
[6/15/2010 2:45:16 PM | Removed 2:45:27 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: This message has been removed.
[6/15/2010 2:45:23 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes
[6/15/2010 2:45:40 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You got time to talk now?
[6/15/2010 2:45:46 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: sure
[6/15/2010 2:46:09 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Ok, so pretty obviously I (we) wanted to talk about the situation with Default trying to claim all of Sherlock's villages
[6/15/2010 2:47:38 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We were ok with One recruited a good number of R4KI players, and we didn't take any ourselves. So now we find it very unfair to have one of those ex-R4KI member trying to claim all of the villages of the only R4KI player we are trying to noble at this time.
[6/15/2010 2:50:05 PM] Justin/Jurasu: So now we have to find some way to compromise about this. I already know Default's position. He thinks that all of Sherlock's villages rightfully his.

On our side, we already feel as if we've given up much more to One, letting them recruits many of the active players and the territory that came with them, than we would gain just from nobling Sherlock, yet doing so would make our members happy.
[6/15/2010 2:50:34 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: did you already talk it over with stalker
[6/15/2010 2:50:50 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: because default agreed on giving those 10 claims to stalker
[6/15/2010 2:52:02 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Yes, I talked that part over with Stalker. Stalker said that he personally only wanted those 10 claims, but I think Default interpretted that in a different way, that as a tribe we only wanted those 10 claims. If you think about it, that would be pretty illogical to only ask for 10 villages after helping you in a war.
[6/15/2010 2:52:44 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And I can already see that Default didn't waste any time to let us talk this out with you first. He's already nobled 32 Sherlock villages in the last 3 days
[6/15/2010 2:54:14 PM] Justin/Jurasu: To clarify that, we still see those 32 villages as Sherlock villages, since we asked Default to stop nobling them until this was figured out, so on our side of the table, we will want those 32 villages back
[6/15/2010 2:54:42 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i'm afraid that's not going to happen :/
[6/15/2010 2:55:27 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: And why not?
[6/15/2010 2:55:59 PM] Justin/Jurasu: The alternative that we were considering was us claiming that Default is a refugee and ask that you kick him. We thought that you wouldn't care to do that, which is why we ask Default to wait in the first place. He went against our wishes and didn't even let us talk to you first.
[6/15/2010 2:55:59 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i can't just go giving away 32 villages from one of my members
[6/15/2010 2:56:19 PM] Justin/Jurasu: 32 villages that we had claimed as part of our only spoils of this war
[6/15/2010 2:56:23 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: Sure you can. Default is showing no respect to you ally, he knew this was an issue and should have respected us
[6/15/2010 2:56:43 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: there is no rush in him nobling these villages
[6/15/2010 2:56:59 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: well, there is
[6/15/2010 2:57:06 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: we want our area consolidated asap
[6/15/2010 2:57:11 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: you area?
[6/15/2010 2:57:23 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: that's the issue here
[6/15/2010 2:57:36 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Who do you have to worry about? Its you guys, us, and what's left of R4KI. You obviously don't have to worry about us, and I doubt R4KI is going to bother you
[6/15/2010 2:58:21 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I never ask for much from allies, but I expect respect
[6/15/2010 2:58:37 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: leaving inactives and the like around is not a good plan
[6/15/2010 2:58:50 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Before this war, we also saw K64 as our area. You only gained dominance by recruitng Default and his recent mass nobling. So what we are worried about is Default encroaching upon our territory
[6/15/2010 2:58:55 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: your right, which is why we have been preparing to noble him out
[6/15/2010 2:59:01 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: who else is going to noble him?
[6/15/2010 2:59:09 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: there is no threat there from anyone
[6/15/2010 2:59:32 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: it looks like you've got more than enough targets though :/
[6/15/2010 2:59:47 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and we have asked for nothing out of t his war, even though we "potentially" had enemies on both of our sides, unlike anyone else in our alliance
[6/15/2010 3:00:06 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: not for 1/2 of our tribe.. they have nowhere to expand if sherlock is not an expansion spot
[6/15/2010 3:00:14 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Forgive me, my skype is lagging somewhat so some of my answers may be delayed
[6/15/2010 3:00:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: because once they take sherlock they can continue moving north, and you expect us to be boxed in?
[6/15/2010 3:00:43 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: come now, you've been eating inactives for months now :/
[6/15/2010 3:01:12 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: stalker said it'd be pretty much those and rim targets for now
[6/15/2010 3:01:29 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: with the occasional P-Ctrl member thrown in between
[6/15/2010 3:01:31 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: thats got nothing to do with wht were discussing here
[6/15/2010 3:01:52 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: there is no further expansion to be had in default's area really
[6/15/2010 3:02:00 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: simz is back, so that area is shut off
[6/15/2010 3:02:21 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: there's still mikepowa who ran to SRA
[6/15/2010 3:02:36 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I am asking that you show our tribe respect, and tell your member to stop what he is doing. I dont think that is much to ask
[6/15/2010 3:02:50 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: he is your new member and you are the duke
[6/15/2010 3:03:18 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: sherlocks villages will have little impact on your tribe, but our guys not being able to access them will definitely hurt our tribe
[6/15/2010 3:03:19 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: for now, it is best he continues nobling. if there are villages to be gifted, he can gift it from his own account
[6/15/2010 3:03:29 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: leaving inactives sitting around isn't smart
[6/15/2010 3:03:41 PM] Justin/Jurasu: How is it best that he continues nobling, and best for who?
[6/15/2010 3:04:05 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I am asking that you show our tribe respect, and tell your member to stop what he is doing. I dont think that is much to ask
[6/15/2010 3:04:19 PM] Justin/Jurasu: A lot of our eastern members expected to expand north through R4KI. Now the war's over, most have gone to you or ChoCho, and now the only member left in range is suddenly claimed by a single, ex-R4KI player?
[6/15/2010 3:04:43 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes, and you still expect there to be expansion up there?
[6/15/2010 3:06:56 PM] Justin/Jurasu: There is still Sherlock in K64, which will allow us to "consolidate our area"
[6/15/2010 3:07:42 PM] Justin/Jurasu: As it is now, we feel as if we are being taken advantage of. We were brought in to war the number 1 tribe, and suddenly the tribe we thought was our closest ally recruited most of that tribe and is letting those new recruits push us around. It isn't going to happen. If necessary, we will noble Default along with Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:08:25 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: come now, let us not start with idle threats
[6/15/2010 3:08:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: They aren't idle threats, and its not in our best wishes
[6/15/2010 3:08:41 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: There is NO REASON our two tribes should have any strain over ONE MEMBER
[6/15/2010 3:08:43 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I'm letting you know that we are serious about this, and won't be pushed around
[6/15/2010 3:09:12 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: it is completely ubsurd
[6/15/2010 3:09:18 PM] Justin/Jurasu: You asked US if you could recruit Default. We agreed. Now HE is telling US what we can and can't noble
[6/15/2010 3:09:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I'm not going to let my actions be dictated by a player who's no better than a refugee
[6/15/2010 3:09:40 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I need you to be the leader you are and tell DEfault to suck it up and show us respect
[6/15/2010 3:09:51 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i understand your point, but i don't see the problem considering the fact you have tons of inactives to noble out AND rim tribes AND P-Ctrl
[6/15/2010 3:10:04 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: its location..
[6/15/2010 3:10:15 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: look at the map.. our guys who were fighting r4ki now have 0 targets..
[6/15/2010 3:10:23 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Western members, mostly ex-CATS have tons of expansion. It's the original Omen members we are fighting for now
[6/15/2010 3:10:26 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and that is not fair to them
[6/15/2010 3:11:36 PM] Justin/Jurasu: i understand your point, but i don't see the problem considering the fact you have tons of inactives to noble out AND rim tribes AND P-CtrlAnd obviously we can say the same about you with the northern area of R4KI and that entire rim area east and south of you. And I know that no tribe is without its own inactives
[6/15/2010 3:12:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: I dont understand why this has gone this far. Des, how long have you known that Sherlock was going to be eaten by Default?
[6/15/2010 3:12:53 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: when he posted it in the forum :/
[6/15/2010 3:13:23 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And you plan to allow that? You are going to allow a player you just recruited rather than rimming to push around your ally?
[6/15/2010 3:13:47 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: ok.. so basically Default gets an invite, Sherlock does not. they decide to "merge"
[6/15/2010 3:14:04 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: that was not part of any agrement we had with you about Default.. this is just plan silly
[6/15/2010 3:14:12 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: what would those 30 villages even gain you?
[6/15/2010 3:14:23 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: 1 week of expansion for about 3 members?
[6/15/2010 3:14:37 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: we are mainly trying to find villages for members in a certain area to expand
[6/15/2010 3:14:48 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: as opposed to one of your new recruits.. yes definitely
[6/15/2010 3:14:52 PM] Justin/Jurasu: The 30 villages now isn't about expansion, its about showing Default, and the rest of your tribe if necessary, that we are equals and aren't going to let you push us whatever way you like
[6/15/2010 3:15:08 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: even if only 3 of our members benefit, they deserve it before Default
[6/15/2010 3:15:13 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: so what do you want? 30 villages?
[6/15/2010 3:15:16 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We specifically asked Default not to noble those until we could talk to you. He blatantly ignored us and did it anyways
[6/15/2010 3:15:21 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: we want Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:15:29 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We want Sherlock, and any villages Default has nobled off him since joining One
[6/15/2010 3:15:33 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and the villages he has nobled in t he past 3 days.. he knew what he was doing
[6/15/2010 3:15:45 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: and he knew we were not ok with it
[6/15/2010 3:15:58 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: he asked Stalker, stalker never gave him the Ok,, ive read the mails
[6/15/2010 3:16:18 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: im not sure what default told you..
[6/15/2010 3:16:53 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: hmm
[6/15/2010 3:17:07 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: alright, let me have a talk with my barons and default
[6/15/2010 3:17:11 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: we'll see what he'll have to say
[6/15/2010 3:17:24 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i'll get back to you as soon as i can
[6/15/2010 3:17:28 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Can we ask that you tell him immediately to stop all nobling actions?
[6/15/2010 3:17:41 PM] Justin/Jurasu: We aren't going to let him use this as a ploy to continue nobling while you talk it out with your barons
[6/15/2010 3:18:04 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: relax, we can still gift stuff to you from his account
[6/15/2010 3:18:13 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: if there was any miscommunication, it was because Stalker sid that he had 10 claims he was 100% still going to take and said he would have to discuss this with the other leaders and the local members.. I am assuming Default took that as an ok
[6/15/2010 3:18:22 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I doubt Default is simply going to give up villages he's already taken because you told him to
[6/15/2010 3:18:50 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: Des, just tell him to stop nobling.. he wont lose $$ from the nobles etc..
[6/15/2010 3:19:51 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And we won't relax while all we are getting is vague answers. We want definites.
[6/15/2010 3:20:24 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: i cannot give definite answers as long as i haven't spoken to him
[6/15/2010 3:20:40 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: but i can tell you that you will indeed get your share
[6/15/2010 3:21:21 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I mean vague when you said "I'll talk with my barons and Default."

There were no specifics there. That's what I mean by definite answers
[6/15/2010 3:21:35 PM] Justin/Jurasu: And as for share, I hope you mean share of the spoils rather than share of Sherlock
[6/15/2010 3:21:47 PM] Daethon/Desmaroth: yes, a share of spoils
[6/15/2010 3:21:59 PM] Justin/Jurasu: Again, you see how I interpretted that as vague?
[6/15/2010 3:22:11 PM] Tamin23/Whome23/Stinky Plunger.: all of sherlocks villas is a good start :)
[6/15/2010 3:22:20 PM] Justin/Jurasu: I know you probably didn't mean it that way, but I always like sure, definite answers in this game where anyone is liable to stab you in the back[/spoil]

[spoil][/spoil]
I can answer this quite fast:

[27/06/2010 13:19:03] Daethon/Desmaroth: i don't see why that sherlock matter is even a pressing concern for jurasu when so many people are quitting :/
[27/06/2010 13:19:16] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: Yeah
[27/06/2010 13:19:18] Uncle Bill | Stalk. | DiamondBlade: I know, I know

Basically, I never understood what the rush was. Heck, if you'd have asked nicely these last couple of weeks, I'd gladly have given you those villages since the area has been consolidated. But noooo, sitting in the corner calling us meanies seems to be your kind of show.

I don't follow because your reasoning makes no sense. We aren't bullying you in any way. We merged with ChoCho, and then Albert made a post on the PnP forums saying we want to continue our alliance as equals. Then you just surprised us with this whole matter about defending the rim tribes around us.
You merge with a tribe that apparantly dislikes us as much as you do, so basically we are now surrounded by a tribe that doesn't like us at all. Furthermore, no one ever informed me of anything of this; until recently Mitsche even assured me a merge into One and Stalker even opened a Skype chat to talk about the Omen-One merge. Honestly, if these aren't enough reasons for us to go into defensive stance and look for new allies...

You've treated us as if we were a step below One from the time R4KI merged into One and you became bigger than us.
Where have you lived these last couple of months? A dream? I talked to Stalker about everything we did. He approved of the Default and Sherlock recruitment. On the contrary, Omen did silly stuff without ever consulting me, like kicking inactives in the heart of One territory and then nobling them without claiming the villages. Honestly, nobling in eachothers core is unacceptable already, but messing it up like that is just completely wrong.


Ooo Ooo! Pick me! Pick me! I know this one! It was...

...Formz!
Errr, no. Formz has never even lead a tribe in this world. He was too inactive in ChoCho to really lead.

The funny thing is, I wasn't the main one to bring up the merge. Mitsche and Stalk were since they were friends. I just helped with details.

And "diplomat" is probably a very vague term for what I do for Omen.
Yet your tribemate just said this merge is one of your great accomplishments. Way to go, Omen P&P.
 

DeletedUser86969

Guest
now that this is over, the world forum goes back to being dead once again...
 

joshi.

Guest
*sigh* None of this would have been a problem if you actually played tribalWARS and not tribalHUGS to form one "super tribe". Looks like simz's predictions etc were all true..pathetic! :icon_rolleyes:
 

Sonicbubba

Guest
joshi. haven't seen you in a while, and yes, Simz probably was correct (not sure what his exact prediction was), but it very rarely works, allies always end up fighting at some point, border issues always become a problem, one side feeling inferior to the other etc. etc. so it was bound to happen. Has Simz quit TW for good or just w45?