No hauls world.... please, please, please!

DeletedUser

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By my count we are due for a no hauls world. That being said, I realize that an executive decision was made limit no hauls servers to high performance rounds moving forward. Which begs the question, why is this the case?

I have listed a number of arguments below and included some personal insight in spoilers below each argument. I strongly urge my no hauls brothers in arms to raise their voices so that we can be heard emphatically!

1. There are numerous Tribal Wars veterans that are simply too busy to farm all day.
I fell in love with this game roughly eleven years ago and can't imagine having to cut it out of my life completely. Life, however, has a way of forcing you to leave pieces of yourself behind. Many players have been forced to cut back on their Tribal Wars activity or leave the game completely due to the time commitment associated with staying competitive, myself included. In many cases a no hauls world is the only option for players that don't have time to farm all day long and as the player count dwindles wouldn't it make sense to try and retain as many high quality players as possible?

2. There is an obviously a demand for no hauls!
If any of you have taken a look at the next high performance round thread (I included the link below) you will notice at least eighty percent of the posters are requesting settings that include no hauls. Many of these players would prefer a regular no hauls world, but seeing as high performance servers seem like the only option for fans of no hauls they are forced to pray that their voices are heard. Ideally we would see a mix of high performance world settings, but without the possibility for a regular no hauls world players will simply be forced to request no hauls for every high performance world. Why are we pitting fans of different settings against each other instead of embracing our differences and enjoying worlds with a variety of flavors?

https://forum.tribalwars.net/index....-performance-round.277033/page-4#post-7014430

3. No hauls encourages community.
There are obvious benefits to playing a no hauls world. Players can't simply out farm the competition and, therefore, must play smarter to get an edge over their neighbors. This simple fact encourages diplomacy, internal tribal coordination, external forum searches for strategic information, and long term strategy that only exists in very limited scope within haul worlds. The most active tribal forum I have seen in my eleven years of playing began with preregistration in W71. We literally had more posts before the world started than I typically see in the lifetime of a world. Additionally, the friendships I made on W71 are of a much higher caliber than those I have developed on all other worlds and will last a lifetime.

4. Noobs should have a chance to experience no hauls.
I don't want to get into which game type takes more skill or which settings are best for noobs to learn the game with, I am simply saying that noobs are not likely to try out high performance worlds. No one knows how many potential players we are losing out on by not offering regular no hauls servers, but odds are if a new player doesn't return it is because they were frustrated with the world they played first. If a wider variety of world settings were offered we would most likely be able to bolster our ranks significantly. Then again, it may not help whatsoever, but you miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take so why not take a minor risk for the possibility of a major payout?

5. A lot of players dislike P2W.
I realize the sale of PP generates revenue for Innogames and cutting this feature hurts their bottom line, but money isn't everything. Many of us have been loyal to Innogames for a significant part of our lives and it would be nice to see some of this loyalty returned. No one wants to nuke an enemy to within an inch of their life only to have them rebuild everything in twelve hours. Please take your fans into consideration and provide an equal playing field for those of us that really want to test our might.

Please carefully consider the points mentioned above and have mercy on the fans of no hauls!

Sincerely,

DZ
 

twenty-five

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Your issue is much more to do with P2W than it is no hauls; all worlds are P2W now hence no haul worlds are silly. You want P2W not to be on every world, so there can be (sensible) no haul worlds. I know you mentioned P2W in your 5th point, but it's really the crux of the entire issue you are talking about rather than just a side issue of why no hauls would be good.

That said I don't think I really disagree with anything you said, although I did just give it a cursory glance.
 
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DeletedUser

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Your issue is much more to do with P2W than it is no hauls; all worlds are P2W now hence no haul worlds are silly. You want P2W not to be on every world, so there can be (sensible) no haul worlds. I know you mentioned P2W in your 5th point, but it's really the crux of the entire issue you are talking about rather than just a side issue of why no hauls would be good.

That said I don't think I really disagree with anything you said, although I did just give it a cursory glance.

While I feel the focus on P2W features certainly complicated matters things are simply too complex to claim that P2W is the crux of the issue. I would argue that the main reason P2W has spread to every world is due to low player counts, but there are a number of factors that have contributed to these low player counts that must be taken into consideration. The most glaring of which, in my opinion, is the discrimination directed toward the no hauls community throughout the existence of this game.

Back when the forums were actually active people were constantly being flamed for having an interest in no hauls. I never really cared which world settings were used until I started working all the time and realized that I simply wasn't competitive anymore because I couldn't farm all day long and I needed to sleep at night. Around this time no hauls worlds were coming out fairly frequently and I started focusing solely on these worlds so that I could actually feel like my effort got me somewhere.

When games get this old players grow out of them, there is less appeal for new generations of players, and the costs associated with maintaining the game really start to pile up as fewer and fewer people return. I realize that Innogames needs the profit from their P2W transactions to keep the servers running, but they could potentially increase these profits if they offered worlds that people wanted to play since it would drive more traffic to the servers.

This is especially true while they work out the bugs in TW2 which is currently twenty worlds deep, but still has basic issues like timing errors. Backtiming, sniping, and ms trains are currently nearly impossible to pull off on TW2 so most of the experienced players have stayed here or quit. New players, therefore, don't have many people to show them the ropes and get burnt out pretty quickly. If Innogames really wants to milk TW1 for all it's worth they should focus on driving traffic to these servers by offering the world settings their fans desire so that they can significantly build up their player count before close TW1 down entirely. When TW2 is actually ready to go this bulked up player base will gladly make the transition to the updated version because they will want to keep playing the game they love.

I guess I am just sad to witness the steady decline of what was once such a vibrant community. Yes, Innogames needs to focus on making a profit, but I feel that they are going about this the wrong way. More players should increase PP sales, more world types should increase the player base, and a stronger player base should increase long term interest. While I agree with you that P2W has definitely contributed to a lack of diverse worlds, it keeps the servers running. You mentioned that Innogames can's have P2W features on a no hauls world, but it doesn't need to be devoid of all P2W features. Players could still purchase premium points for use on other worlds, buy flags, and activate premium accounts for extra building slots and profile customization.

In summation, we need diverse world settings to attract more players and we need revenue to keep the servers running. At some point Innogames need to realize that they could make more profit if they listened to what their fans want.
 
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DeletedUser

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This issue has been brought up many a time. Some will stand beside you in allegiance. Some will say something along the lines of "brah, InnoGames is a for profit company and you're dumb for thinking you matter". But sadly, most people won't ever even notice or care about this thread and it will die a quick painful death.

But hey! This actually might be the best attempt at reversing InnoGames' No-no-haul decision to date!! So I plead to you, yes you, you diligent reader of the external forums, share this with your friends and share this with your enemies. Let's actually try, guise, okay?

Please show your support by liking the first post. It's the least (and probably the most) we can do to regain our beloved no-haul worlds.
 
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Forlorn

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While I would like to see another no hauls, as I think they added something different. Some of your facts or information is completely wrong.

Firstly, yes, while a decent numbers of people who are on the externals and post in the threads asking for suggested settings are asking for no hauls. That is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the many thousands that play this game. So to claim 'the fans' want no hauls is quite a sensational leap.

Secondly, you don't need to farm all day. Its a complete myth, and generally means a lack of understanding of the game if that is your belief. You can farm once a day at most, and still easily maintain a top 20 or 10 rank. There are several who have done this, and been rank 1. Now everything isn't about rank ofcourse. But the crux of your issue seems to be you have to farm all day to be competitive and that is a myth. The activity comes in when you have to defend. Sitting with 10K+ incoming. Its funny no hauls players don't complain about TW when that happens they are happy, as that is a fight, but god forbid 5 mins of farming every day, or several times a day.

However, while your argument is flawed I agree with the outcome from it and I completely agree with the statement that a variety of world settings is beneficial. I want a no hauls, and would love to see one on W89 or sometime in the not-so-distant future.
 
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arabela

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I am very happy to see someone finally posted this.

I hate farming deeply and i rly hope there is a possibility for us, no haulers, this small part of tw comunity, to have no hauls back.

I am trying to play a haul world again, and i dont see myself playing another after this one. So, pls, let us enjoy our fav game without this farming concept.
 
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DeletedUser

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Before I attempt to address your reservations with the arguments I laid out above I would like to sincerely thank you for reading this post and for supporting the no haul W89 campaign. So... THANKS! :D


Firstly, yes, while a decent numbers of people who are on the externals and post in the threads asking for suggested settings are asking for no hauls. That is a mere drop in the ocean compared to the many thousands that play this game. So to claim 'the fans' want no hauls is quite a sensational leap.

I may not have posted on the externals until a couple of days ago, but I assure you I have been reading them religiously for eleven years and this is by no stretch a sensational leap. The forums were once incredibly populated and popular opinion has always been in favor of a variety of world settings with a heavy emphasis on no hauls. Additionally, players polled in game always responded favorably to this idea as well so even if they weren't on the forum their voices were heard. Why do you think we started getting alternate world settings to begin with?

Secondly, you don't need to farm all day. Its a complete myth, and generally means a lack of understanding of the game if that is your belief. You can farm once a day at most, and still easily maintain a top 20 or 10 rank. There are several who have done this, and been rank 1. Now everything isn't about rank ofcourse. But the crux of your issue seems to be you have to farm all day to be competitive and that is a myth. The activity comes in when you have to defend. Sitting with 10K+ incoming. Its funny no hauls players don't complain about TW when that happens they are happy, as that is a fight, but god forbid 5 mins of farming every day, or several times a day.

While I might agree that you could maintain a high rank very late in the game using this tactic your logic simply doesn't hold up. No one would be able to achieve this rank during the beginning of the world, nor would they be able to prevent enemies from sending them on a one way trip to the rim if they were not actively farming as much as humanly possible. That is of course assuming they aren't also utilizing P2W tactics. ;)

I, however, completely agree with your point about incoming attacks. I really don't mind tagging incomings and setting an alarm to dodge, snipe, or backtime especially now that the mobile app is pretty solid. As you stated this part of the game is actually fun, but maybe that is because this is supposed to be a war game, not a gathering game.

Just for fun I timed how long it took for me to make one full farm run with my tiny 450 point village on W88. Please keep in mind this could go faster if I decided to use loot assistant, but I never activate this feature so I figured it would be better to ignore it. I took 1 minute and 20 seconds to send scouts to ten different villages (then I waited for five to fifteenish minutes for the scouts to produce reports). Next I worked my way through the reports and split my forces to go collect hauls at maximum efficiency which took about two minutes and five seconds to send seven raiding parties. So this single, condensed farming run took a total of three minutes and twenty five seconds to send out plus an additional fifteen minutes of waiting. Assuming most of these raids actually get a decent haul I might be able to queue up some buildings and some troops, but I won't know until the attacks hit which adds more waiting time.

Now let's imagine I hardly haul anything, which is the case in most worlds with active players. Once my troops are on their way back I would send out another scouting party, wait for reports, and start sending troops to the new locations as soon as possible. This not only adds to the total amount of time spent farming, but now instead of logging off while my scouts do their thing I am actively waiting for troops to return so that I can get them back in the field asap. I fail to see how it is possible to farm only once a day, spend less than five minutes doing, and still remain competitive. In my opinion this is how you get rimmed out. Lots of activity and/or money is the only way to play a haul heavy world.
 
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THE MURPH ALL CAPS

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Thanks for the PM. I have great appreciation for anyone who spends their time trying to bring back no hauls. As you know I'm a strong advocate of the cause and will start actively campaigning for the cause once more.

Can someone in Inno please address this reoccurring request on behalf of us. Thank you.

https://twitter.com/innogames

I'd highly recommend getting this to trend on their twitter.

@innogames #BringBackNoHauls

78eb00af4f4c77dd40fe70328199d0c8.png


Could ya'll lovely people please follow suit?
 
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ALessonInPointWhoring

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.xDZx. said:
I may not have posted on the externals until a couple of days ago, but I assure you I have been reading them religiously for eleven years and this is by no stretch a sensational leap.

It is absolutely a sensational leap. No hauls is the second least popular setting there is. The only thing less popular than no haul worlds are worlds with world speed less than 1. I am not interested in how many people have posted on the forum saying they like no hauls. I am interested in the size of no haul worlds compared to the size of worlds with hauls. Statistics speak much more loudly to the ears of the educated than the vocal minority ranting on the forum does. No hauls worlds are not popular, such worlds have barely half as many players join them as join the worlds with hauls.

.xDZx. said:
The forums were once incredibly populated and popular opinion has always been in favor of a variety of world settings with a heavy emphasis on no hauls.

Wrong.

.xDZx. said:
Additionally, players polled in game always responded favorably to this idea as well so even if they weren't on the forum their voices were heard.

Also wrong. If either of the two previous claims were not absolute bullshit then statistics would support them, they do not.

.xDZx. said:
Why do you think we started getting alternate world settings to begin with?

Morthy caved to the vocal minority. It's similar to when Lizy caved to Jamm and enacted a rule requiring noble trains be slower than 150 ms.


.xDZx. said:
No one would be able to achieve this rank during the beginning of the world, nor would they be able to prevent enemies from sending them on a one way trip to the rim if they were not actively farming as much as humanly possible.

This is absolute bullshit. No one educated holds this view. Farming is useful, but if you think you have to "actively farm as much as humanly possible" to do well then you understand nearly nothing about the game and are in no position to ever open your mouth regarding any sort of competitive play. I have never once farmed anywhere near that often. I have gotten rank 1 numerous times when playing solo despite being on the same world as accounts with 5+ players that farmed far more hours per day than I did.

.xDZx. said:
Just for fun I timed how long it took for me to make one full farm run with my tiny 450 point village on W88. Please keep in mind this could go faster if I decided to use loot assistant, but I never activate this feature so I figured it would be better to ignore it. I took 1 minute and 20 seconds to send scouts to ten different villages (then I waited for five to fifteenish minutes for the scouts to produce reports). Next I worked my way through the reports and split my forces to go collect hauls at maximum efficiency which took about two minutes and five seconds to send seven raiding parties. So this single, condensed farming run took a total of three minutes and twenty five seconds to send out plus an additional fifteen minutes of waiting. Assuming most of these raids actually get a decent haul I might be able to queue up some buildings and some troops, but I won't know until the attacks hit which adds more waiting time.

Now let's imagine I hardly haul anything, which is the case in most worlds with active players. Once my troops are on their way back I would send out another scouting party, wait for reports, and start sending troops to the new locations as soon as possible. This not only adds to the total amount of time spent farming, but now instead of logging off while my scouts do their thing I am actively waiting for troops to return so that I can get them back in the field asap. I fail to see how it is possible to farm only once a day, spend less than five minutes doing, and still remain competitive. In my opinion this is how you get rimmed out. Lots of activity and/or money is the only way to play a haul heavy world.

Thanks for telling us how bad of a player you are. It wasn't necessary, it was already clear from the earlier portions of your post, but your farming methodology makes it painfully clear to anyone who hadn't previously noticed. I farm nothing like you do, it takes me roughly 2-3 minutes total to farm 4 times a day, that's roughly 800 hauls per day. It's enough farming to be top 10 on world with virtually no investment. If I want to compete for rank 1 it will likely require more investment than that, but to maintain top 10 is typically not at all difficult past day ~10-15 of the world.
 
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DeletedUser

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I can't help but notice that you also have not provided any stats...


Thanks for telling us how bad of a player you are. It wasn't necessary, it was already clear from the earlier portions of your post, but your farming methodology makes it painfully clear to anyone who hadn't previously noticed. I farm nothing like you do, it takes me roughly 2-3 minutes total to farm 4 times a day, that's roughly 800 hauls per day. It's enough farming to be top 10 on world with virtually no investment. If I want to compete for rank 1 it will likely require more investment than that, but to maintain top 10 is typically not at all difficult past day ~10-15 of the world.

FYI, this is not how I farm. When I am actually spending time on a haul heavy world I use scripts and micro farm roughly once an hour while I am awake. This was simply a quick experiment to test eddiecesc claim that you could do all the farming you need to maintain a high rank in a maximum of five minutes per day. Even your, obviously superior, farming tactics would take a minimum of eight minutes per day so thank you for providing us with empirical evidence that his claim was false.
 
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ALessonInPointWhoring

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I didn't provide evidence his claim was false. 2-3 minutes was total for the 4 times. I was referring to startup though, not later on.

That'd be roughly 200 attacks, thus 40 seconds with the 5 attack per second limit 4 times a day, for a total of 160 seconds or 2.67 minutes.

Bookmark Farming is far, far faster than any other method. It does however require initial setup time.

As for the stats, simply look at all the previous worlds, it's clear as day that the no haul worlds had less villages on them and less players joining them in total, it's not hard information to find nor is it a secret. Everyone wants to believe that something must be popular because they like it. It just isn't so. I like no paladin, no archer, 10-tech, single-package worlds, with world speed 0.5 and unit speed 2.0. Those are not popular settings and I'm aware of that. I am not telling people they are in the wrong for liking something unpopular, but they are unfortunately in the wrong to expect to be catered to when they are a small minority. Innogames end goal is $$$. Appeasing you equates to less $$$, and is thus a bad idea for them.
 
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THE MURPH ALL CAPS

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Do you even play anymore? No hauls have provided some of the most competitive, intriguing worlds I've ever seen. There's also been a lot of crap worlds, like anything. Why are you trying to deprive us of no-hauls though? It's a setting we like and I've always had fun on these type of worlds. Surely there's space for it once a year. With a bit of proper advertising and setting changes it has great potential. It hasn't been marketed well and many take advantage of the settings. Fix that and they could be the most populated worlds. People don't like change. Before W56 it's always been hauls.

And to address your last point -

"Innogames end goal is $$$. Appeasing you equates to less $$$, and is thus a bad idea for them."

They are capable of making bad decisions and decisions that cost them $$$. Look at TW2.
 
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DeletedUser118875

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No haul worlds = Garbage. No way to grow rapidly because resources are so scarce, and there is no benefit for being hyper-active, like you get from farming.
 
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THE MURPH ALL CAPS

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Incorrect. You need to execute mines instantly to get optimum return. There's also significant gains from your chosen building order. And no it's not as easy as iron, wood, clay, iron wood, clay. There is benefit from being hyper active. You're wrong.
 
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