On the posting of stats in wars

[DeletedUser]

Ok, this is the first time i'm asking for input from the community and i'd like to start by asking all to not go offtopic and answer to the point. If you don't have anything meaningfull to add, please just don't post.

Now then, the reason for my post is i cannot for the life of me fathom the rampant posting of stats in various threads on the plethora of wars you guys are all fighting. The threads about the BH wars vs TITANS/np family and whomever else is in that war are atm just spilling over with stats. Some people find it usefull to post virtually the same stats mere hours or even minutes after someone else posted them.

So my question to the community is this: do you honestly believe this serves a purpose?

Wars are imo not decided in a day - well, rarely anyway - and especially at this point in w17 wars are likely to last months given the size of the tribes. I am atm asking for advice from my elder moderator, but personally i think it's coming to the point where people are just spamming with stats, even to the point where it is deemed necessary to create new threads to accomodate them.

So here's some guidelines i personally find sensible, i'd love some feedback on what the w17 forumdwellers think of this:
- at the start of the war: post stats in the declaration post, and 24 hours later. Then wait till a week has passed.
- once the war is up to speed, just post stats once/week
- if you did a nice op, just post about the op rather then posting stats again. If you have an undying need to post the stats for your op, don't include the three month/one month/forever stats.
- if multiple parties are at war, include all of them and if you want seperate stats for one of the parties add those after but in the same post.

Before anyone yells: the mod is imposing rules on us! This is a discussion thread. The above is food for discussion, not rules i'm imposing.

 

[DeletedUser]

well, i would just like to say that it is helpful to put in the monthly as well as weekly to show how that week affects the overall.

otherwise makes sense

 

[netjakdim]

Could we make it so that only 1 Family vs. 1 Family is allowed in any set of stats. I know that it is hardly ever 1 on 1 in this world but it would allieviate any of the confusion. As well another thing might be about the inactives and dropped accounts.
Perhaps when someone declares they can actually take a few minutes to copy and paste the involved members of warring parties at the time of declaration or at least just keep a copy. Then if someone leaves either from being kicked or their own accord they can still be added into the stats. That would put an end to carring on about "HE IS NOT EVEN IN OUR TRIBE ANYMORE" nonsense sir.

I am wondering maybe even a World Volunteer. Sele does a good job with the maps what if we find just one person out there that would be willing to go through and give about 15 or 20 minutes of their evening to post stats for all the wars then noone else would need to worry about this.

 

[Whipped]

Food ?
Belgian waffles with whipped cream?!

The only purpose of those stats is.. EGO BOOSTING.
NP wants to show the world how well they're doing against BoS by posting those stats every 10 minutes.
But they never post stats including their allies TITANS.

BoS don't post stats including only the NP Family, due to their need of ego boosting.
They include all of their wars; TITANS HORDES NP F etc.

It's all about the ego!

No worries BoS I still love you guys <3


Except for cheaterkadze, he creeps me out.
Just kidding you know I love you ! :O

 

[DeletedUser]

I see what you are trying to achieve, but I think you have to be careful to not stifle the readership too much. This sort of thing could be over-regulation and that's NEVER a good thing.

 

[DeletedUser]

Any kind of stats is fine but chain posting the same thing over and over every 15 minutes is just spam and should be dealt with as such.

I seriously doubt that any external observer enjoys scrolling through 5 pages of stats every day just to see if anyone actually said something instead of just showing off their awesome copy/paste skills.

 

[DeletedUser]

I do feel if a tribe declares on a family, and another tribe jumps in to assist and defend them, then these stats should be included, showing small parts only of a war is not showing actually what is going on, especially in a gang bang,

now i do agree once a week is fine, and when there is and ops, to post those wins and losses, is a fair way to show how a 24- 48 hour op has changed the standings..but i do agree we dont need to add ops stats and add back a week or month..

now examples..

np joined in to help titans, and hordes..against the bh, so if people want to put seperate stats in a thread to show individual tribal accomplishments, i have no probelm with this, but also on the other hand to show all tribes against one family total stats is also fair to add in..

but to make it only one family against one family in a gang bang isnt even showing the whole war for us..I dont do it to boost egos, i do it to show the overall situation, and to burst bubbles..

but now i see multiple threads for the same over all war, and i find this redicoulous, when a family jumps into a war to assist another family, you inherit there war losses and wins period, and should except this, and live with it..

 

[DeletedUser]

I can just agree with void420 and chrisclifton26. They two have pretty much summed the most obvious issue and solution regarding the situation described by Badlapje.

For those loving to post stats, I'd also encourage the SPOIL tag. It can make wonders for readibility.

 

[graspingsquare]

I am wondering maybe even a World Volunteer. Sele does a good job with the maps what if we find just one person out there that would be willing to go through and give about 15 or 20 minutes of their evening to post stats for all the wars then noone else would need to worry about this.

This is a great idea but only stats approved by both warring parties should be shown otherwise no stats will be posted.

I feel stats should be 1v1 weekly and then the over all picture either every 2 weeks or monthly (possibly followed by a comment from each side on how they are doing etc)

Maybe make it a sticky of stats with the frotn page updated for all current top 20 wars etc.

 

[netjakdim]

only stats approved by both warring parties.

I am sorry sir but that one made me laugh we can't even agree on this world when wars start let alone the sides. I do like the idea of a sticky have one person in charge of the sticky. Then leaders when they declare can post in that thread with who they are declaring and then their opponent can declare as well. Although we probably need a neutral party to decide about the refugee status or something with peole leaving for being so called inactives. perhaps maybe a 24 hour grace period for all inactive accounts to be removed or else they remain on the count until the conclusion of the war.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is a great idea but only stats approved by both warring parties should be shown otherwise no stats will be posted.

I feel stats should be 1v1 weekly and then the over all picture either every 2 weeks or monthly (possibly followed by a comment from each side on how they are doing etc)

Maybe make it a sticky of stats with the frotn page updated for all current top 20 wars etc.

This needs to be fair across the board, but to try and show only part of a war once a week, and the whole picture once or maybe twice a month is ludicrous, give people and inch and they take a yard...

 

[DeletedUser]

I am sorry sir but that one made me laugh we can't even agree on this world when wars start let alone the sides. I do like the idea of a sticky have one person in charge of the sticky. Then leaders when they declare can post in that thread with who they are declaring and then their opponent can declare as well. Although we probably need a neutral party to decide about the refugee status or something with peole leaving for being so called inactives. perhaps maybe a 24 hour grace period for all inactive accounts to be removed or else they remain on the count until the conclusion of the war.

on W3, there was an elder mod - also playing as a leader of a W3 tribe - having a tool which made war scores for all parties - similar to void's scripts, but then again, even void's script has been questioned by Storm during our war.

As for the "neutral party", I'm sure you are aware of that there are no really neutral parties this late of the game world so stats presented by a "neutral" party would be as much questioned as any other. I don't think that the problem could be solved from this direction.

 

[netjakdim]

on W3, there was an elder mod - also playing as a leader of a W3 tribe - having a tool which made war scores for all parties - similar to void's scripts, but then again, even void's script has been questioned by Storm during our war.

As for the "neutral party", I'm sure you are aware of that there are no really neutral parties this late of the game world so stats presented by a "neutral" party would be as much questioned as any other. I don't think that the problem could be solved from this direction.

My apologies sir for my lack of structure, my meaning by neutral I realize it is kind of late in this world to find any player that is truly neutral however if we select leaders to represent a council then remove the ones that are involved in particular wars we could get a neutral opinion.
For instance in 13th's current war against ~A~. Sir Marticus and lets say Hellisfun would be the leaders of the tribes. Now as BA,TAO,NP are all involved in this war as well we could eliminate all of those votes. This would leave us with votes from Babyteeth in 100I, Integretous in Wisdom someone from BH and even XD, Eturg and KOBR would have a voice in what was what. I realize there will still be some bias but a majority rule would be logically accepted by all I would think.

 

[graspingsquare]

I am sorry sir but that one made me laugh we can't even agree on this world when wars start let alone the sides.

DOH! :icon_redface:

Maybe i wasnt thinking there, as in i was thinking of how to make it fair rather than what would work.

As for you sonny to show the whole picture you need war stats for the whole world.

If a solution isnt found maybe all stats should be banned i mean we have the maps and people can use tw stats if they want to know and tribes can post their own stats on their own forums.

I realize there will still be some bias but a majority rule would be logically accepted by all I would think.

By the majority ... i still feel every tribe has a veiw so for this to work they have to have no ties to this world. :/

 

[netjakdim]

DOH! :icon_redface:

Maybe i wasnt thinking there,

Are you posting DRUNK again sir???

Sorry Bad sir I just had to ask him that question.:lol:

 

[DeletedUser]

Maybe both sides can agree on perameters on who to includes and not to include (or if they cant decide have a neutral party decide ex. Bad:icon_wink

And maybe have a neutral party post these stats so that every tribe members post stats or try sway people away from something being discussed by posting stats:icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

- at the start of the war: post stats in the declaration post, and 24 hours later. Then wait till a week has passed.
- once the war is up to speed, just post stats once/week
- if you did a nice op, just post about the op rather then posting stats again. If you have an undying need to post the stats for your op, don't include the three month/one month/forever stats.
- if multiple parties are at war, include all of them and if you want seperate stats for one of the parties add those after but in the same post.

I understand your idea paul, but your idea would cause more bad then good. I know that when the time comes for weekly stats, and if the lucky poster happens to muck up the stats and post something someone else doesnt agree with then they are gonna say "no this is the real stats" and post their own, then someone else will reply stating the same thing, and thus we will be in the circle that we are in now.

The reason there are so many stats is because there are so many angles to look at the stats from and everyone wants their view to be seen and understood, but what your asking for is a restriction on players showing their views. its just gonna piss people off and lead to heavy flames and arguments about who's stats is the one to be seen every week.


I think it would be better to force the SPOILER code that way we can see all the stats we ever need and you dont have to look at them unless you click the little button

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't care how much times as day we get stats posted, as long as they are on topic. If the thread is on xFam vs yFam, stats should be only with those fams involved.

I also don't mind picturing different angle and explanations why certain someone is loosing from certain other, but in that case it SHOULD be posted in spoiler tag.

And on top of that, posting 5 different stats in the same post without spoiler tags should be punished and post deleted - plain and simple.

 

[DeletedUser]

also having 3 topics for 1 war is ridiculous.
- 1st for the war discussion
- 2nd for the stats of said war (isn't that what's supposed to be discussed about in the 1st topic?)
- 3th to discuss the stats of said war ( WTH!!!!???)


spoil tags should be mandatory for posting stats (specially if you'r posting multiple of them.

 

[DeletedUser]

My apologies sir for my lack of structure, my meaning by neutral I realize it is kind of late in this world to find any player that is truly neutral however if we select leaders to represent a council then remove the ones that are involved in particular wars we could get a neutral opinion.
For instance in 13th's current war against ~A~. Sir Marticus and lets say Hellisfun would be the leaders of the tribes. Now as BA,TAO,NP are all involved in this war as well we could eliminate all of those votes. This would leave us with votes from Babyteeth in 100I, Integretous in Wisdom someone from BH and even XD, Eturg and KOBR would have a voice in what was what. I realize there will still be some bias but a majority rule would be logically accepted by all I would think.

Just to show why it is a bad idea:
What you're obviously not aware of according to your example that ~A~ is having positive relations (NAP or better) with Wisdom, BH, 100I/A, Eturg but even xD from your list, so 90% of those you considered neutral are naturally and surely not unbiased. There are also obvious political factions on W17 and pretty much all the tribes are siding with some of them. Since you can't force every single tribe to play with open cards and show their diplomacy list and tell their diplomatic intentions and mid-range strategy, you'll never get a truly neutral party which won't be attacked by 2/3 of the warring parties for being biased on a way or another.

Another obvious example:
Wisdom and [BA] are publicly beknown as not having any relation to each others; by your logic, [BA] could be a neutral observer in at least one of the Wisdom wars (since [BA] never had any relation to SABRE either) and Wisdom could be a neutral observer of... hm, actually, they couldn't be since they are at least NAPd to everyone we are fighting against. Anyway, would anyone believe that [BA] (or me) is neutral over a Wisdom-SABRE war, despite we have officially nothing to do with any of them (and you can only guess about our goals and short-mid-long term strategies)? I guess we can easily agree on that every single tribe and player has quite a few unfolded or hidden issues with others all around, what you can't prove (nor disprove) or not aware of.

Democracy and "neutral councils" are not for war, not even a moderator could be (imagine the amount of mails from every side trying to use propaganda to make the moderator biased; imagine that the moderator is a living person and is having friends or symphatic posters on the forum, and so on).


I'm still siding with void420 and chrisclifton26 as to what the gudelines should be while trying to find a solution to this issue, and I can just reiterate my own (and many others) suggestion regarding the usage of SPOIL tags.