DeletedUser107679
Guest
Someons mad. And speaking of retardation..
Someons mad. And speaking of retardation..
DeletedUser
Guest
Yeah, always the big named tribes that are under scrutiny once something silly like this comes out. No-one would care if it was anyone else.
Nevertheless I did hint at the agreement being temporary when I agreed to it, and that is something the opposing party's leaders should have looked at.
Let's go back to the 26th of September when I first received the offer...
-N-? Who are they? Oh some tiny tribe consisting of 20 members (at the time).
'Diplomatic offers' - ok so I look interested and I say this is promising...
I give it about 8 hours and I get back to him saying we'll do an 'NAP for some time'. I can say after saying that it was definitely temporary for our interests (at the time you had about 20 members from what I remember) - regardless it kept -N- happy for the time being.
Since then you have recruited and recruited and recruited all around us until this temporary NAP that I had planned to drop anyway was set in stone to be dropped as it would be illogical to not do so with the spread of both tribes. Recruiting around us was not the best of ideas as it did add up with what I was told from said player that you would organize something against us.
So here we are now, explaining ourselves out of the situation that has been blown way out of proportions. Again, I apologize for not making the terms of the NAP clear but at the time you were a tribe I didn't think would grow to be of the size it is now.
Nevertheless I did hint at the agreement being temporary when I agreed to it, and that is something the opposing party's leaders should have looked at.
Let's go back to the 26th of September when I first received the offer...
-N-? Who are they? Oh some tiny tribe consisting of 20 members (at the time).
'Diplomatic offers' - ok so I look interested and I say this is promising...
I give it about 8 hours and I get back to him saying we'll do an 'NAP for some time'. I can say after saying that it was definitely temporary for our interests (at the time you had about 20 members from what I remember) - regardless it kept -N- happy for the time being.
Since then you have recruited and recruited and recruited all around us until this temporary NAP that I had planned to drop anyway was set in stone to be dropped as it would be illogical to not do so with the spread of both tribes. Recruiting around us was not the best of ideas as it did add up with what I was told from said player that you would organize something against us.
So here we are now, explaining ourselves out of the situation that has been blown way out of proportions. Again, I apologize for not making the terms of the NAP clear but at the time you were a tribe I didn't think would grow to be of the size it is now.
DeletedUser
Guest
nvm.
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DeletedUser107679
Guest
Using the, "mad", are we? Well, you're sure mature.
Theres no such thing as "the mad". Mad is a word that happen to describe him very well. As for maturity I doubt it has any correlation with the word mad.
I think the post I quoted is a better example of what could be described as immaturity. But I guess he is a tribemate of yours so you choose to judge me instead.
DeletedUser
Guest
Herp derp
DeletedUser104941
Guest
Notice Bunny didn't mention once on here that we we're Rank 1 for 4 to 5 days in succesion, due to the fact it's meaningless. The fact you honestly think it means so much this early, wow:icon_rolleyes:.
Dabearo is actually doing a half decent job explaining this away, Do your duke a favor and stop derping all over the place you absolute clown.
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DeletedUser
Guest
IMO
The diplomatic arrangement was created with a certain loophole.
DaB took advantage of this loophole, I'll respect that. I personally look for tiny loopholes just for the hell of it, whether I use it is considered on a case by case basis.
However, the method in which this loophole was exploited, I don't agree with.
The NAP only really ends upon both sides being aware of it.
Hell you could send a mail seconds before launching, and if he read it thats all golden, the NAP was ended before offensive action was taken. For me, that's acceptable.
But technically, you attacked during a NAP agreement. This shows, despite your pretty excuses, a surprising lack of honour.
Now this is a term I find most players laugh at, but in my experience, the more experienced players tend to regard this with a greater importance than most. Now with the large collection of experienced leaders in the nearby premades, I feel that DaB has effectively trashed a good portion of opportunites for serious diplomatic ties.
Few competent leaders would tie themselves to a leader who cares little for diplomatic arrangements.
Especially at the flimsiness of the excuses to justify Dab's course of action
This is my opinion as stated at the beginning.
Flame/disagree/agree/debate at will
Now as to the allegations about manipulating the rest of the continent to fight eachother, in avoidance of a "fair fight" I say kudos.
This is a smart tactic, if underhanded.
As only an idiot for a leader would take his tribe into an even/fair fight.
It's common sense to stack the odds in your own favour.
That's a true leadership path
The diplomatic arrangement was created with a certain loophole.
DaB took advantage of this loophole, I'll respect that. I personally look for tiny loopholes just for the hell of it, whether I use it is considered on a case by case basis.
However, the method in which this loophole was exploited, I don't agree with.
The NAP only really ends upon both sides being aware of it.
Hell you could send a mail seconds before launching, and if he read it thats all golden, the NAP was ended before offensive action was taken. For me, that's acceptable.
But technically, you attacked during a NAP agreement. This shows, despite your pretty excuses, a surprising lack of honour.
Now this is a term I find most players laugh at, but in my experience, the more experienced players tend to regard this with a greater importance than most. Now with the large collection of experienced leaders in the nearby premades, I feel that DaB has effectively trashed a good portion of opportunites for serious diplomatic ties.
Few competent leaders would tie themselves to a leader who cares little for diplomatic arrangements.
Especially at the flimsiness of the excuses to justify Dab's course of action
This is my opinion as stated at the beginning.
Flame/disagree/agree/debate at will
Now as to the allegations about manipulating the rest of the continent to fight eachother, in avoidance of a "fair fight" I say kudos.
This is a smart tactic, if underhanded.
As only an idiot for a leader would take his tribe into an even/fair fight.
It's common sense to stack the odds in your own favour.
That's a true leadership path
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DeletedUser
Guest
People appear to be missing the three most important points.
Whether DaBearo said the NAP was temporary or not is irrelevant. He didn't cancel it and we had numerous attacks whilst still under NAP. If it had of been cancelled and we had fair warning (which I believe is the agreed convention) then we wouldn't have cared. The fact is we had numerous attacks and small skirmishes whilst still under NAP.
Secondly pacman have gone against an NAP on the basis of hearsay and rumour from one of their spies (who is now co-playing KingOfNoHaul). This rumour and hearsay is non-existant and made up as Clifford Harris could not have known anything. Then they tell us it was EDEN spreading these lies and telling them NEBULA were going to attack them. I don't know what EDEN think about this betrayal of their honour?
By the way we still haven't seen any proof of planned NEBULA attacks!
Finally let's not only get hung up on the NAP issue. DaBearo and pacman are lying and twisting words to try and turn the rest of k45 against each other. Judging by their terrible O numbers they need to be because they couldn't beat anyone in a fair fight. At least 5 tribes have been targeted by lies and deception as pacman look to weaken their opponents.
The point of this thread is not to decide who was right and who was wrong. Just let this be a warning anyone that tries to take out diplomacy with pacman.
Whether DaBearo said the NAP was temporary or not is irrelevant. He didn't cancel it and we had numerous attacks whilst still under NAP. If it had of been cancelled and we had fair warning (which I believe is the agreed convention) then we wouldn't have cared. The fact is we had numerous attacks and small skirmishes whilst still under NAP.
Secondly pacman have gone against an NAP on the basis of hearsay and rumour from one of their spies (who is now co-playing KingOfNoHaul). This rumour and hearsay is non-existant and made up as Clifford Harris could not have known anything. Then they tell us it was EDEN spreading these lies and telling them NEBULA were going to attack them. I don't know what EDEN think about this betrayal of their honour?
By the way we still haven't seen any proof of planned NEBULA attacks!
Finally let's not only get hung up on the NAP issue. DaBearo and pacman are lying and twisting words to try and turn the rest of k45 against each other. Judging by their terrible O numbers they need to be because they couldn't beat anyone in a fair fight. At least 5 tribes have been targeted by lies and deception as pacman look to weaken their opponents.
The point of this thread is not to decide who was right and who was wrong. Just let this be a warning anyone that tries to take out diplomacy with pacman.
DeletedUser
Guest
Wanted to stay out of this but
Yes what they did was dishonorable
It's TribalWARS and everything is allowed
Yes what they did was dishonorable
It's TribalWARS and everything is allowed
DeletedUser
Guest
Think what you like I guess, everyone has their own opinion. I know that I respect and value NAPs when there is good reason for it, and the tribes officially NAP'ed with us will see this in time.
I shall again APOLOGISE for in a way leading you guys on. Though you asked for it offering diplomacy 'willy nilly' on the plate for us. At the time when I accepted, the tribe was called -N- and had about 20 players in the tribe. Did I ever think this would escalate into such drama? Nope, no clue.
Though you guys need to accept the fact that for us this NAP was never really big news and therefore was forgotten about. (your tribe was very small at the time)
Sorry for the way it was done, I regret answering the diplomacy offer (should have ignored it like the other 30 mails) and take responsibility for the tribe, however I don't see how it's such a big deal to label us as 'not to be trusted' - we know that diplomacy is of paramount importance on no hauls and would never break an official NAP which has been discussed thoroughly.
End of discussion really for me, not much more I can say to it all before it starts going round it circles again.
-DaB.
I shall again APOLOGISE for in a way leading you guys on. Though you asked for it offering diplomacy 'willy nilly' on the plate for us. At the time when I accepted, the tribe was called -N- and had about 20 players in the tribe. Did I ever think this would escalate into such drama? Nope, no clue.
Though you guys need to accept the fact that for us this NAP was never really big news and therefore was forgotten about. (your tribe was very small at the time)
Sorry for the way it was done, I regret answering the diplomacy offer (should have ignored it like the other 30 mails) and take responsibility for the tribe, however I don't see how it's such a big deal to label us as 'not to be trusted' - we know that diplomacy is of paramount importance on no hauls and would never break an official NAP which has been discussed thoroughly.
End of discussion really for me, not much more I can say to it all before it starts going round it circles again.
-DaB.
DeletedUser
Guest
This is not surprising. NAP's are incredibly fragile if you don't set conditions, and even then, they're still very fragile.
Do I give notice before I break my NAP's? Yes, of course. It's how I've always done it, and unless a tribe looks to be a signifigant threat, it's how I will always do it. But as far as I'm concerned, breaking an NAP when you don't even state in your agreement that this needs to be done, is never something that has been exceptionally underhanded. It's a situation where you have to just take it and push on as best you can.
Honestly, if a tribe's leader is going to fall for that, nice job, Pacman. I see no problems with playing intelligently like this.
You've shown us, what, two reports of bad O numbers? That's 1/25th of their members. Sorry, but that's not nearly a big enough sample to prove bad troop counts.
As far as I'm concerned, proof isn't needed. As I stated, NAP's are very fragile, they're made to be broken.
Do I give notice before I break my NAP's? Yes, of course. It's how I've always done it, and unless a tribe looks to be a signifigant threat, it's how I will always do it. But as far as I'm concerned, breaking an NAP when you don't even state in your agreement that this needs to be done, is never something that has been exceptionally underhanded. It's a situation where you have to just take it and push on as best you can.
DeletedUser
Guest
Pacman Just Unconventionally broke another N.A.P
Sent: Oct 08, 2012 13:50:57[h=3]The defender has won[/h] [h=4]Luck (from attacker's point of view)[/h]
[h=4]Morale: 100%[/h]
So much for Justifiable, You lot are Just Dis-honourable, Seriously This is where You start making all teh tribes Hate You, Every one Band together and Starts Attacking you guys, Your strategy still seem clever?
And too think I wanted to Join this... (spits at ground):icon_sad:
Sent: Oct 08, 2012 13:50:57[h=3]The defender has won[/h] [h=4]Luck (from attacker's point of view)[/h]
| |
| 24.5% |
| Attacker: | Devils Trill | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Origin: | Heeeeere we go again! (528|466) K45 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
| Defender: | Lord of the Deep |
|---|---|
| Destination: | Hidden by the report owner. |
| Hidden by the report owner. |
So much for Justifiable, You lot are Just Dis-honourable, Seriously This is where You start making all teh tribes Hate You, Every one Band together and Starts Attacking you guys, Your strategy still seem clever?
And too think I wanted to Join this... (spits at ground):icon_sad:
DeletedUser104941
Guest
ROUND 2
Fight!
Fight!
DeletedUser
Guest
I first came to this topic with a fairly dim view of Pacman. I'm the other side of the world, and not a big player in this game you've all got going on, but I think your post showed a large amount of maturity. You've apologised for your actions and realised that, in future, an NAP should be made more clear.
As said, at the end of the day, a tribe has been hard done by. Pacman have acknowledged this and apologised, which I respect. Diplomacy shouldn't need to be an aggressive business. I can't say anymore on the matter, as I'm far removed from it, but I appreciate the honesty of DaB and I've got my fingers crossed they won't be pulling a similar trick again...
DeletedUser
Guest
DeletedUser
Guest
I had a lot of respect for Pacman coming into the world and up until recently. I recognize a lot of big names in there from past worlds including a couple from MoM on 56, which were ultimately a respectable bunch, its a shame to see what they're doing here.
DeletedUser
Guest
Gah, pushed for time with lectures going on. My apologies. I guess I retract my previous post unless this is resolved sensibly and quickly :/
DeletedUser
Guest
Even though it's exactly what we did in World 56? :icon_rolleyes:
DeletedUser
Guest
That is something I am looking into.
