Pay to win?

Tricky557

Guest
Hello,

I used to play this game a long time ago (world 8) and was considering coming back and giving it another round.

I made a test village on world 94 to try and get familiar with the new changes. It seems you can now spend premium points to get in game advantages such as building cost discounts, build time reductions,etc. This seems pretty pay to win to me.

Can free players compete with people who throw money at the game?
 

DuteTare

Guest
Yes, they can, not at 100% ofc, but they can.

You can get FREE pp by playing a "farming pp world". Just play on a new world, play like before, but instead of trying to grow and control your area, just sell resources at the local market for PP points. that's called farming pp. If you do it right, you can get a few thousand pp points on a world, then spend them on another world. Say you play w95 to farm pp, then when w96 opens, you play for real with the pp you've aquired on w95.

also skill>pp, remember that. There are plenty of players who abuse PP early game, get villas, and it looks like they're invincible, but that usually doesn't last and they eventually get rimmed or fall behind. Look at Karma on w94 for example.
 
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Tricky557

Guest
Its not the money thats the issue. I work full time, could pay for pp if I wanted to. But just having pay to win options in the game ruins it for me.

Are there worlds without these options?
 
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DuteTare

Guest
Classic worlds as far as I know.

Pretty much everyone agrees with you, hehe, but we work our way around the pay to win option and stick it to the pp-burners!
 
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Tricky557

Guest
Its a pity the game I used to love turned into P2W garbage.

Do they do long term classic worlds? I think one is running right now but it's only around for 1 month.
 
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DeletedUser120876

Guest
is not p2w cause if i am not at late game, even if i use 5000 bucks i will not win the game. Is team to win
 
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Tricky557

Guest
It's pay to win because you can lay money to get significant in game advantages. You can buy resources, lower building costs, speed up building construction,etc.

Anyone who dumps money into it is going to have a significant advantage over someone who doesn't. Probably gets their 2nd village much faster than fre players. If that isn't pay to win idk what is.


A suggestion: Have a world without the P2W crap and charge a subscription for it. I'd play that. Not against spending money on something I enjoy, but P2W mechanics ruin gameplay.
 
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DuteTare

Guest
99% of the TW players complayed like you do right now when this thing started. You need to calm down, get used to it, and realize there are many ways to work aroudn it. It doesn't matter who gets their 2nd village faster. Troops win fights, not points or villages. Since this "P2W" as you cal lit has been implemented, i don't know of a single PP burner that has won a world. They grow faster in the early stage, yes, but in the end they always lose :)

it's not that big of a deal, honestly. Also look at the other side of it, now you can get loads of PP without spending a single dollar. Personally I like it, because without Premium/Farm assistant/Account manager, you can't really play TW, and since i'm as tudent I can't afford to pay for pp. So from my point of view, it's a win. LEt them burn all the pp they want, you can do the same if you farm it on 1-2 worlds.
 
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DeletedUser120876

Guest
but early game of course its pay to win
It's pay to win because you can lay money to get significant in game advantages. You can buy resources, lower building costs, speed up building construction,etc.

Anyone who dumps money into it is going to have a significant advantage over someone who doesn't. Probably gets their 2nd village much faster than fre players. If that isn't pay to win idk what is.


A suggestion: Have a world without the P2W crap and charge a subscription for it. I'd play that. Not against spending money on something I enjoy, but P2W mechanics ruin gameplay.
But thaths useless. Cause i dont know how to call in enlgish but if you attack to a lower player you just attack %52 or whatever depends on points so a good player will always beat a one who pay
 
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Tricky557

Guest
I suppose I just fundamentally disagree. If a premium feature is necessary to enjoy the game, it shouldn't be a premium feature.

My 2 cents anyway. As long as P2W is here I will not be playing.
 
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DuteTare

Guest
well okay...lol

So you get free premium, am, and fa, how does inno get their part of the cut then? think smart friend, not only subjective ^^ this game is a business for some people.
 
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Tricky557

Guest
well okay...lol

So you get free premium, am, and fa, how does inno get their part of the cut then? think smart friend, not only subjective ^^ this game is a business for some people.

A suggestion: Have a world without the P2W crap and charge a subscription for it. I'd play that. Not against spending money on something I enjoy, but P2W mechanics ruin gameplay.
 
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DuteTare

Guest
not everybody wants to spend money on a game. IF you don't want to spend money on premium, how do you expect ppl to pay to play a certain world? :)

There are classic worlds without P2W. Feel free to play there if you hate this new feature so much.

I have premium, am, fa, and i can still burn a few thousand pp points without having spent a single dollar, thanks to this new premium market. I play with all the features, yet i don't spend a single penny. How's that bad? :)
 
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Tricky557

Guest
The point is to have everyone on a level playing field. Having some people boosting with a cash shop ruins the gameplay experience.

Instead of having a game where skill and strategy reign supreme, we have a game where a more skilled player can just lose because the other guy broke out the MasterCard and bought his way to a larger army.

Even if you yourself do not pay money into this system, you feed those who do. If I understand correctly, you can sell resources for pp via the market in game, enabling the other guy. Early game becomes 'how pp do I need to spend to come out on top.

That isn't good game design.
 
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DuteTare

Guest
well you asked i answered and offered explanation. What you do now is up to you.

Have a great day/night!

Cheers
 
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DeletedUser93439

Guest
The point is to have everyone on a level playing field. Having some people boosting with a cash shop ruins the gameplay experience.

Instead of having a game where skill and strategy reign supreme, we have a game where a more skilled player can just lose because the other guy broke out the MasterCard and bought his way to a larger army.

Even if you yourself do not pay money into this system, you feed those who do. If I understand correctly, you can sell resources for pp via the market in game, enabling the other guy. Early game becomes 'how pp do I need to spend to come out on top.

That isn't good game design.

The game was never on a level playing field for everyone. People with or without PA are proof of that. The amount of people I know that managed to get to end game with a decently positioned, large account without using PP at all are far and few between.

Skill and strategy never reigned supreme, they were important, but if you've been playing since EN8, you've seen the massive accounts. You've been subject to 100K+ commands/day operations. At mid and end game, available time reigned supreme.

You can NOT take out the MasterCard and directly pay for a bigger army. Early game you can obviously get your village up faster and gain a head advantage, but by the time you have a couple villages you get diminishing returns. If you even get that far. Apart from some unusual cases, one player can not indefinitely play alone without need for a tribe, PP or not.
There is not such a number of PP abusers that they can completely overtake everyone else during early game.

The Premium Exchange is not designed to be abused like this and serves a better purpose. You can sell resources for PP indeed, and purchase them for PP. The real reason people can do this is because it allows them to gather PP to purchase a Premium Account without having to spend real money, some people are not strong enough financially to do that.
With this argument you sound like the people years ago who were complaining about the first T-trains that had no ms gap implemented. "Sending attacks becomes how good is my connection and how consistent are my lag spikes," which was a far more valid argument than this.

I don't particularly like the PP features myself, nor do I usually go through the trouble of preparing for (ab)using them. However, without them, I can see TW dying very fast. A bunch of players do like them and Inno wants to keep making money on this game and, lets face it, when they stop making money off of it, it's going to get shut down.
 
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sidd 271

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tell me a good strategy game where you dont have to spend money.I
tell me a strategy game which is as brutal as tw.
 
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Tricky557

Guest
The game was never on a level playing field for everyone. People with or without PA are proof of that. The amount of people I know that managed to get to end game with a decently positioned, large account without using PP at all are far and few between.

Skill and strategy never reigned supreme, they were important, but if you've been playing since EN8, you've seen the massive accounts. You've been subject to 100K+ commands/day operations. At mid and end game, available time reigned supreme.

True, but when you get to that point I feel its fair to spend money. You're essentially buying convenience and management features of the game. Not game items.

Like I said previously, I'm not against spending money on the game. I used a premium account back on world 8 because I found it was a good value for what it gave you, and it wasn't P2W.
As for time available, isn't that true of nearly every game? The more time you put into it, the higher return you'll get out. TW is no different.


You can NOT take out the MasterCard and directly pay for a bigger army. Early game you can obviously get your village up faster and gain a head advantage, but by the time you have a couple villages you get diminishing returns. If you even get that far. Apart from some unusual cases, one player can not indefinitely play alone without need for a tribe, PP or not.
There is not such a number of PP abusers that they can completely overtake everyone else during early game.

Early game resources are in short supply. You can buy resources with money, and use those resources to build troops and establish dominance in an area. I agree that it seems a lot of the P2W stuff is early game, but early game is important. Getting a head start and owning the area directly around you is an excellent way to grow. The more you grow, the more likely you are to get into a strong tribe and proceed to mid-game.

The Premium Exchange is not designed to be abused like this and serves a better purpose. You can sell resources for PP indeed, and purchase them for PP. The real reason people can do this is because it allows them to gather PP to purchase a Premium Account without having to spend real money, some people are not strong enough financially to do that.
With this argument you sound like the people years ago who were complaining about the first T-trains that had no ms gap implemented. "Sending attacks becomes how good is my connection and how consistent are my lag spikes," which was a far more valid argument than this.

Some people like the P2W stuff, I get that. I get that the game needs a revenue stream to support itself or it would die. My argument is that there are different (better, imo) ways to monetize your game rather than the path TW chose to go down. Path of Exile did F2P very well, and I think over the years I've dropped 6-700$ on that game because I enjoyed it so much despite it being F2P.

I don't particularly like the PP features myself, nor do I usually go through the trouble of preparing for (ab)using them. However, without them, I can see TW dying very fast. A bunch of players do like them and Inno wants to keep making money on this game and, lets face it, when they stop making money off of it, it's going to get shut down.

My suggestion would be to have classic worlds without the P2W, but instead monetized via some sort of subscription fee. Either you could buy it directly, or use PP farmed on other worlds, etc. In this manner, you have a game without the P2W elements, but still offers revenue to IG. Just copy the anniversary TW classic server and charge people for it.


Answers in bold
 
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Skill Issue

Skilled Soldier 2020
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There's a world on polish version of TW without the premium options (world 119 to be precise), just like in the old days. The only problem everything is in polish language so, if u don't mind that give it a shot.
 
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