Pink/Step Merge?

[blckdrgn1]

No we ended up capturing the entire top half of the map held 10-15 of the top 20 accounts till 2 million points per player or so and I quit when the summer came. I mean I've done that like every time I have ever started a tribe you should shush because yeah I quit when late game comes but you're trying to debate early game leading with debatably the player with the best early game leading record. That's not like a bragging thing I litterally have done something similar to every world I've ever started a premade, you've been around for a long time, ever see a tribe that litterally held rank 1-10 in a world at early game all the way through mid game then randomly disappeared? It was probably me. You should listen I'm explaining to you probably the best method of doing this, if you're going going to merge merge the top of different K's and trust your top echelon to win

lol you are so humble

Yes there is a tribe like that every world that has rank 1 by recruiting the top players that are spread out across the world and every time I've seen it done that tribe gets picked apart by tribes that have actual density.

Btw, I've won the last 3 worlds I played (75,81,89) so I wont shush I know plenty about how to set a tribe up in early game for mid game and late game success.

 

[Deleted User - 4669627]

Lol, Humm I once had a tribe I lead of 30 accounts simultaneously capture 13 K's. We were 3 million points before rank 2 got to 1 million, sweetie if there is one thing I know it's how to build a tribe. Now it's a fair criticism that I and my group quit after mid game.

a lot has changed since your time old man
these days worlds don't reach 13 k's

its been strange seeing you here, are you even playing btw?

the strange part in seeing you here is your lack of "fame" in a new world
i saw the 1st page of the "hacker" thread where several folk honestly believed you did not understand micro-farming, which was in fact justified by your own posts :|
its sort of like this thread...

30 accounts making 3 mil points would be 100k points per player average or 10-15 vills... spread across 13k's there would be an average of 2 players per K with holding 20-30 vills of the K... I'd hardly call that "capturing" a K.

By the time mid game came along your guys were probably so spread out that they were getting picked off and couldnt help each other. I wasnt there but thats what it sounds like from the info you have given.

from the info given, that IS the conclusion
all this questioning of you seems based off exactly what you post?

i'm not saying anything, just being silently & privately amused by it, as i'm sure you are as well, in a different way, "they think i don't know micro-farming!"
but really matt, are they wrong to question you based exactly off what you post?

 

[mattcurr]

lol you are so humble

Yes there is a tribe like that every world that has rank 1 by recruiting the top players that are spread out across the world and every time I've seen it done that tribe gets picked apart by tribes that have actual density.

Btw, I've won the last 3 worlds I played (75,81,89) so I wont shush I know plenty about how to set a tribe up in early game for mid game and late game success.

a lot has changed since your time old man
these days worlds don't reach 13 k's

its been strange seeing you here, are you even playing btw?

the strange part in seeing you here is your lack of "fame" in a new world
i saw the 1st page of the "hacker" thread where several folk honestly believed you did not understand micro-farming, which was in fact justified by your own posts :|
its sort of like this thread...



from the info given, that IS the conclusion
all this questioning of you seems based off exactly what you post?

i'm not saying anything, just being silently & privately amused by it, as i'm sure you are as well, in a different way, "they think i don't know micro-farming!"
but really matt, are they wrong to question you based exactly off what you post?

Oh I don't think they should know who I am anymore I find it amusing that they missed the sarcasm so I just ran with it. And an example was the easiest way to explain it. Capturing a k with 5 members is really easy then again no one seemed to know how to farm this world so maybe they lack the top Echelon capable of doing it. I mean notice this guy listed all worlds post p2w where most of the top of the community refused to play. I am selling res for pp and switching on to an account I've been night sitting. Can't play solo anymore.


@random guy who wins world's, cool story but if you see tribes like that that then don't dominate their area until they get bored they aren't like what I described. I don't think you probably understand if I'm on a computer tomorrow since I'm working from home maybe I'll dig up some old posts. Our dominance and others like me such as aaqib is nothing like recent worlds and I look at the general stats every once in a while.

 

[*GranTorino]

I think the reasoning behind that includes many variables. Average player base skill has increased from the times you played vigilantly Matt. Plus smaller scale worlds with a higher quantity of better players, the extra in-game features making the game a lot easier to do almost anything, Not to mention the release of the app and ability to play broswer on mobile.

Things like sniping, barb bouncing, cancel snipes are the norm now, almost every player can do it. In your time it definitely was not this way.

Combine all this together and it equates to that level of early game dominance almost impossible to achieve.

 

[mattcurr]

I think the reasoning behind that includes many variables. Average player base skill has increased from the times you played vigilantly Matt. Plus smaller scale worlds with a higher quantity of better players, the extra in-game features making the game a lot easier to do almost anything, Not to mention the release of the app and ability to play broswer on mobile.

Things like sniping, barb bouncing, cancel snipes are the norm now, almost every player can do it. In your time it definitely was not this way.

Combine all this together and it equates to that level of early game dominance almost impossible to achieve.

Increased? I'm sorry when I'm out farming the top accounts with 125 lc and they purchased enough resources to already have had 500+ I just don't see that as an increase. I mean I didn't even set a night sitter or play the first 20 hours and by BP drop I was out farming people with 5x more troops. Maybe the average base of the game is better but there is no top level game play going on here at all the expansion rates are atrocious? Some of of the top players here I've litterally rimmed elsewhere and they were like drastically behind.

 

[*GranTorino]

Increased? I'm sorry when I'm out farming the top accounts with 125 lc and they purchased enough resources to already have had 500+ I just don't see that as an increase. I mean I didn't even set a night sitter or play the first 20 hours and by BP drop I was out farming people with 5x more troops. Maybe the average base of the game is better but there is no top level game play going on here at all the expansion rates are atrocious? Some of of the top players here I've litterally rimmed elsewhere and they were like drastically behind.

Certainly its increased and that cannot be denied, just because you are out farming other players who have bought their ranks with your 125 LC doesn't determine whether average skill base has increased or not.

Though I don't agree with the philosophy; lots of top tier players don't efficiently farm due to the easy access of the P.E, so most top tier players don't shine through until around mid game. If you decided to stick a normal speed you could see for yourself .

I've played only one world seriously on this server thus far, and have met quite a few very good players on the W91 journey, and I'm sure I'll meet many more who were occupied on other worlds.

I don't think a top tier player can be determined by farming stats in early portions (Though it can definitely be a factor it's more of an activity test than skill). I think they're determined more through what they show whilst in wars in terms of efficient troop usage, good timing and advanced tactics, as well as how they work with allies/team mates. All these factors are things which are truely shown in the mid-late game portions.


EDIT: Players who you see in top ranks now that you may have rimmed on world years ago have probably become better players over the years. Willingness to learn can make any bad player good.

 

[grave maker]

Listen to *GT

Plus you have lazy guys who cba to farm 26 point player vills and will just wait until everything around goes barb to use LA. Farm numbers for a lot of people go up around that time, especially for people who used PP in early stages instead of using time to farm a million player vills. Early farm numbers will just reflect the res brought in from the scattered barbs around supplemented by res brought in from the PP market.

I get what youre saying and PP certainly changed early game and weighed it in the favor of people who use PP to those who don't but really any competent player still stands a chance even with using a minimal amount of PP vs. someone who uses a lot. Not to mention it is pretty easy to manipulate the market to make PP off it, buying low and selling high

 

[mattcurr]

I agree that midgame is the show of a good player, I do think that the top tier sets themselves up in early game right now, I see one account doing it right and he's as old school as me. Even still he quit for the first 2 days used the same starting location and just started playing again and is still a top account. One would think at such a disadvantage the old school player who hadn't played a farming world in 5 years wouldn't do that well if the skills were higher now. He quit started way behind hasn't played in like half a decade, you'd think if skills are better now he'd be behind right?

 

[blckdrgn1]

I mean notice this guy listed all worlds post p2w where most of the top of the community refused to play.

Um... did you even check the world settings on the worlds I mentioned? W75 was not p2w, W81 was not pay to win, W89 was pay to win.

The tools that are out now make farming super easy (Loot assistant, tw farm hand to farm players, etc) and like someone else said sniping and such are the basics these days. What determines a winning tribe these days are their diplomatic choices and leaderships ability to put offensive and defensive troops to use where they need to be used. Thats the part of the game I enjoy.

What determines a strong player are the things you mentioned Matt. Constant farming and aggressively knocking down competition nearby to control an area which boosts their farming, rinse/repeat. But this is a team game after all so at some point those strong players need neighbors to help them defend when a tribe tries to gang bang the beast players. That is something ive seen most of these early game rank 1 players/tribes fail to do. They dont set themselves up for survival they just go for fast growth until they get knocked out by a gang of noobs who had crap farming stats etc they just have more players to pile on the strong ones and bring them down.

This is just what I've seen in my experience I started in w10 but things have changed significantly since those times. Granturismo made some good points. The worlds are smaller and the people who are playing are mostly veterans who wreck the noobs and make them never want to play again, so as time goes on the ratio of pros vs noobs continues to lean towards more pros than noobs in tighter worlds etc. That is why I think the top priority early game for a tribe should be to achieve density, create a safe zone, clear the rim so they have one side free of enemies, then advance on the other 3 fronts.

This is also why I think premades starting in the pre-registration, deep in the core, will never win a world. They are just surrounded constantly and get gang banged before they can reach the rim to have one safe front. Any way, im rambling on now...

TL;DR the meta game has changed and early/mid merges help a tribe survive mid game.

 

[DeletedUser111574]

I don't mean to be rude, Gents can we get back onto the topic of W95.


Please lets look at the future.


Karina is awesome

 

[mattcurr]

Um... did you even check the world settings on the worlds I mentioned? W75 was not p2w, W81 was not pay to win, W89 was pay to win.

The tools that are out now make farming super easy (Loot assistant, tw farm hand to farm players, etc) and like someone else said sniping and such are the basics these days. What determines a winning tribe these days are their diplomatic choices and leaderships ability to put offensive and defensive troops to use where they need to be used. Thats the part of the game I enjoy.

What determines a strong player are the things you mentioned Matt. Constant farming and aggressively knocking down competition nearby to control an area which boosts their farming, rinse/repeat. But this is a team game after all so at some point those strong players need neighbors to help them defend when a tribe tries to gang bang the beast players. That is something ive seen most of these early game rank 1 players/tribes fail to do. They dont set themselves up for survival they just go for fast growth until they get knocked out by a gang of noobs who had crap farming stats etc they just have more players to pile on the strong ones and bring them down.

This is just what I've seen in my experience I started in w10 but things have changed significantly since those times. Granturismo made some good points. The worlds are smaller and the people who are playing are mostly veterans who wreck the noobs and make them never want to play again, so as time goes on the ratio of pros vs noobs continues to lean towards more pros than noobs in tighter worlds etc. That is why I think the top priority early game for a tribe should be to achieve density, create a safe zone, clear the rim so they have one side free of enemies, then advance on the other 3 fronts.

This is also why I think premades starting in the pre-registration, deep in the core, will never win a world. They are just surrounded constantly and get gang banged before they can reach the rim to have one safe front. Any way, im rambling on now...

TL;DR the meta game has changed and early/mid merges help a tribe survive mid game.

You've diverted the argument: to make it sound like you were saying something valid you droned on and on. What I said was that a top tribe could capture a k with a few key players and merge with people outside the k to capture more or spread out the starts. Then the conversation went on to direct single player skill level. Who said farming had shit to do with good tribes I said it was the foundation of good accounts and its clearly lacking nowadays

You don't get to create a random unrelated argument and pretend it applies hoping no one notices. Because if anything my strategy is litterally the solution to the issues you find with starting a tribe in the core. Think about it for 10 seconds, you don't seem dumb, all your points are valid, and they come about because youre starting with players in 1 K. Imagine if the core tribe instead of merging core players merged outwards to secure expansion on the rim prior to anyone else, and this my friend is why I had the expansion rates I had.


Lets drop the whose better old or new players, it doesnt matter, its not my initial point. Think about the strategy if you could make it work, how would you make my plan work? Expand the reasoning out this is why I used myself as an example because ive done it works, and you can come up with a milion problems and there are problems with it. But there are solutions too. Gang banged by n00b tribes when low members? Create friends and spies in all surrounding tribes, create wars by having spies attack other n00b tribes eat left overs(I used to have members join the world from the premade and not join the tribe, but scatter through the world to tribes I wanted them in), I could go on and on. There is this temptation ive noticed in meetings in real life as well as tw. People raise an idea, or see something happen and they go well what if this happened and shut down their thought process.

Take the step further, what if this happened? How did they find a solution? How could I find a solution?

 

[blckdrgn1]

I don't mean to be rude, Gents can we get back onto the topic of W95.


Please lets look at the future.


Karina is awesome

The discussion Matt and I are having is about w95 and tw in general so it is on topic

The strategy you suggest Matt most people call the "illuminati" approach and I haven't seen it work personally because it is high risk. My last post was explaining what I recommend instead as a lower risk strategy that I've seen work several times in today's meta game as an alternative. Play any way you want

 

[mattcurr]

The discussion Matt and I are having is about w95 and tw in general so it is on topic

The strategy you suggest Matt most people call the "illuminati" approach and I haven't seen it work personally because it is high risk. My last post was explaining what I recommend instead as a lower risk strategy that I've seen work several times in today's meta game as an alternative. Play any way you want

Haha that's a funny name for it. I don't see it as high risk given the people who I work with. And I was talking about most effective method not easiest. But okay seems like a an agreeable end to this. And yeah we were debating pink and steps strategies

 

[blckdrgn1]

Haha that's a funny name for it. I don't see it as high risk given the people who I work with. And I was talking about most effective method not easiest. But okay seems like a an agreeable end to this. And yeah we were debating pink and steps strategies

The people I saw try it got caught trying to play tribes against each other due to Skype chats getting leaked and talking to other tribes about how "I will join later and so will x y z Player etc" eventually the rest of the main tribes figured out who was part of the illuminati crew and exposed them a few at a time. It's a tricky one to pull off

 

[*GranTorino]

What determines a strong player are the things you mentioned Matt. Constant farming and aggressively knocking down competition nearby to control an area which boosts their farming, rinse/repeat.

Though I can agree these can be factors of determining a strong player, efficient farming and creating farms doesn't define a strong player for certain.

I've seen many high ranking accounts with some of the best looting records in their world get crushed the first time they're touched, including rank 1 accounts. Farming well is activity based, not skill.

 

[mattcurr]

Though I can agree these can be factors of determining a strong player, efficient farming and creating farms doesn't define a strong player for certain.

I've seen many high ranking accounts with some of the best looting records in their world get crushed the first time they're touched, including rank 1 accounts. Farming well is activity based, not skill.

If we ignore required knowledge, I think there are two determinate factors to make a good player. Staying cool under pressure and for late game just sticking through it.

I guess on top of that, getting along with others in a team.

 

[Deleted User - 4669627]

i read part of the debate, not all, but i'll point out 1 perhaps miscommunication...

GT spoke of the player base skill, matt spoke of the top tier
they went on to debate that top tier, but...

generally speaking, things that DID designate decent players long ago, no longer do, cuz they are more common
matt has a VERY limited view of what a "good" player is btw, when he speaks of "good" he typically means "great"

but back to the point, matt...

even if you still disagree the top tier is at least comparable to days of old, you admit that even nubs are backtiming these days? you might argue that the top tier has declined, but admit the overall "skillset" has "improved" or was simply provided to virtually everybody?

this greatly affected dynamics

 

[mattcurr]

A lot of times those skills make bad players.

Look at the OPD stats. Top tribes have lost villages top players, do you notice anything though? Something outside what would have been the normal?????

Not a single top tribe in the top 10 OPD defending except for Jager and they're litterally number 10.....

Not a single player had been stacked this world. Anywhere in the world the most amount of troops killed in defense is 18,000 a single nuke and again not in a top tribe.


Top tribes are closer than ever have already attacked each other and not a single stack in the world at all ever???? This is tw improved???????????

I think if this counts as the standard start up for a modern world no one new has much experience in top level play during early and mid game play..

 

[DeletedUser113200]

I've never considered things like sniping,sending trains in under x amount of seconds that much of a skill set,if anything I believe these are the results of adopting to outside factors which have changed the way this game was intended to be played.All those above so called skills have nothing to do with strategy which is what TW is about and thus were all born out of necessity and not from strategies.Personally they all come down to timing,accuracy,availability and how good your internet is and for the better part of a decade i had abysmal internet and could hardly ever do the above but still managed to survive long into worlds.Furthermore adding to the debate at hand I know many oldies who would walk all over these new worlds.Not that I am leaning towards the older players of TW but i have seen first hand people return after being absent for almost 40 worlds+ and still do a job.The decrease in the difference between the top players and lower players in the older worlds compared to the difference of class between top players and lower players in later worlds doesn't show that the overall skill base has risen it just shows that the vast majority of players now know the basic 'skills' needed.Thus everyone is on the same mediocre playing field save a few people and there is an absent of those people who actually play with proper strategies and the way things were intended.There are so many other factors in play however this it self is another topic for its own thread and not wanting to derail this one will not go too much into that.

 

[Garrock]

i read part of the debate, not all, but i'll point out 1 perhaps miscommunication...

GT spoke of the player base skill, matt spoke of the top tier
they went on to debate that top tier, but...

generally speaking, things that DID designate decent players long ago, no longer do, cuz they are more common
matt has a VERY limited view of what a "good" player is btw, when he speaks of "good" he typically means "great"

but back to the point, matt...

even if you still disagree the top tier is at least comparable to days of old, you admit that even nubs are backtiming these days? you might argue that the top tier has declined, but admit the overall "skillset" has "improved" or was simply provided to virtually everybody?

this greatly affected dynamics

This is more or less my take. I do believe the overall standard has improved, while I will be hard pressed to admit that the "best of the best" in TW's current state equal that of TWs "glory days".