If Grave (our Duke) was seriously considering on throwing half of the tribe under the bus and asked a neighbouring tribe to rim them I would tell them myself. Don't shoot the messenger mate. If the US president was chatting to Canada about kicking Montana, North Dakota, and Minnesota out of the Union and asked Canada to help give them a hiding you can hardly call Canada the bad guys. Good for you mate, it's nice that you keep things classy and simply call people manipulative and vile. We aren't a premade, every tribe has language barriers amongst members. These things are not unique in TW We haven't acted tough, the declaration isn't full of bravado and put downs, it's factual points about how we got here. We haven't shared some on the externals because our Duke didn't feel they were suitable for the externals. Sounds like everyone knew before we did! One of us was going to declare on the other if the NAP wasn't extended, it's common sense it was a likely outcome. You guys were actually gearing up for it before we'd truly decided to pull the trigger ourselves. Rubbish. We've done nothing you guys haven't in dealing with other tribes, frankly we've done a lot less. Half of watch was on your side of an agreed border, you were supposed to hit them and didn't (it would not surprise me at this point if it turned out some of your players supplied stacks, although I don't think that would have been a tribe wide thing). The failed OP is a massive contributor for us choosing not to extend the NAP and declare on both tribes. Understand, it was you guys that approached us and wanted to work together hitting watch (after failing to arrange a gangbang with Death). We're in a situation where we have a border that isn't conducive to our shared goals because you guys weren't doing your part, we couldn't continue with the border as it was. Without the NAP and border we were going to war. The only person throwing shade seems to be you. More rubbish. Read your posts mate, you've shown very little respect in this thread, I think we've been pretty even handed (I've certainly not called anyone vile). Saying that I have a lot of respect for U4 as a tribe, and Watch have defended admirably, good luck to all involved.