~Raid~ : Untrustworthy Conduct - Example for All

bdbranch

Guest
Before anybody starts, no I'm not bitter about anything. When you start the game a week or more after those next to you, are only marking time, don't give enough enough thought into correct development & chose a (pardon the term) shitty tribe, you can't expect a good result.
And no I don't believe that ~Raid~ players or leaders are bad people & believe that they are more than likely decent people.


When you conduct affairs in the game (any game) & how you conduct them, you're sending a message. Among the most important messages that you send relates to how others should take you, in particularly whether they should hold trust in you.

Conduct by ~Raid~ leadership sends the clear message that others shouldn't trust anything which comes from them.

~Raid~ had a agreement not to attack a noob tribe called -NoR- (& -NoR2- - then 1st & 2nd in continent). -NoR- had absent leadership. ~Raid~ decided to break that agreement by concocting a story that the -NoR- leader was attacking them.

Date Player Tribe Rank Points Villages OD ODA ODD
02/08/2009 F3v3R -NoR- 3114 =2,837 =1 =14,756 =13,018 =1,738
01/08/2009 F3v3R -NoR- 3013 +2,837 =1 +14,756 +13,018 =1,738
31/07/2009 F3v3R -NoR- 2987 +2,791 =1 =14,591 =12,853 =1,738
30/07/2009 F3v3R -NoR- 2996 +2,726 =1 =14,591 =12,853 =1,738
29/07/2009 F3v3R -NoR- 2945 +2,688 =1 =14,591 =12,853 =1,738
This is the stats of the player that was alleged to have attacked them. When asked for evidence of the alleged attack the ~Raid~ leader said

-=I am the Joker=- said:
It is not alleged it is fact ... but that is irrelevant.
He essentially refused to present any evidence as there was no attack (backed by ingame & TW Stats)

At this time a -NoR- player named Corwin... decided to take advantage of this by attacking his fellow newer teammates.
_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _​

~Raid~ then sent the following message to all -NoR- members.

Hello fellow tribal wars player,

You are a member of the -NoR- family, unfortunately the family's leader has not been honorable to other tribes or to his members, he assured my tribe ~RAID~ that after his failed attempt to noble one of our players that no further actions would come from him or his tribe, thus buying himself time to rebuild from his losses, this saved him from being nobled last week, well yesterday a different player from your family attacked a member of my tribe the result is that your family has now become target practice for my tribe and our allies.

If you are wanting to avoid being targeted then you can simply leave the -NoR- family within the next 24 hours and you may be spared, those that decide to stay longer will be hunted down.

best regards and good gaming,
-=I am the Joker=-
humble duke of ~Raid~
Essentially ~Raid~ said that those who left would not be refugees or subject to attack. This was backed up by the following query (& response)

bdbranch on 04.08. at 13:12
I'm told that there's a blacklist, what's with that?

-=I am the Joker=- on 04.08. at 13:13
BLACK LIST ???

bdbranch on 04.08. at 13:15
Well I'm told that you have a blacklist.

-=I am the Joker=- on 04.08. at 13:26
Not sure where you are getting your info but oh well, the only list I have is a noble list for today and a hold a day list for afterwards.
Hardly surprisingly, ~Raid~'s word could not be trusted here. -=I am the Joker=- contacted various tribes in the local area & declared that the various former -NoR- members were infact refugees. It's not surprising because that's the trend of all similar cases. And in all cases the tribe that does these things tends to continue to concoct stories to undertake new actions.
_ _ _ _ __ __ _ _ _ _​

1 : ~Raid~ specifically said that those who left -NoR- would not be refugees.
2 : When asked about the possibilitity of such a list, the leader of ~Raid~ denied the existance of such a list.

To suddenly claim otherwise when players with troops join another tribe only shows that ~Raid~ is less than honourable in what they say. ~Raid~ specifically said that players leaving -NoR- would not be refugees & to suddenly change their mind should only highlight that ~Raid~ has a failure of credibility.

No I don't believe that ~Raid~ players or leaders are bad people & believe that they are more than likely decent people. However their conduct in this game suggests that their word is without meaning.

With this I'd like to remind people that how you conduct yourself in any game showcases part of your personality. When you undertake any activity, you should be asking yourself whether it's the type of person that you wish to portray out into the world. Yes winning is nice, but ask yourselves whether it's actually everything or if there's other things that's more important.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jax010

Guest
So Raid cooks up bull stories to excuse breaking NAPs. Kind of annoying, but what can you do? At least we know not to trust them in the future.
 

-=I am the Joker=-

Guest
You have taken parts of what I have said and used them to create a PNP that makes us look bad however you fail at it. That you were not accepted shows your poor sportsmanship when you come here and start spreading lies.

As for the attack from your leader bless his poor soul RIP here is the proof of the attacks where he attacked the week prior and then arranged a cease fire to avoid getting himself nobled. A NAP was never made from our side, why should we nap a n00b tribe...

http://en39.tribalwars.net/staemme.php?village=68200&screen=report&mode=all&view=9233656
http://en39.tribalwars.net/staemme.php?village=68200&screen=report&mode=all&view=9228289

Now that Corwin decided to take advantage of the situation within NoR has nothing to do with this post he was a part of NoR not of RAID and was acting on his own.
He was accepted to RAID as a regular member after the fact that he attacked his own tribe mates that were just to lame to play the game, thus irrelevant since it has nothing to do with Raid Leadership.

Now let us look exactly at the message that I sent all of the NoR family shall we...

Hello fellow tribal wars player,

You are a member of the -NoR- family, unfortunately the family's leader has not been honorable to other tribes or to his members, he assured my tribe ~RAID~ that after his failed attempt to noble one of our players that no further actions would come from him or his tribe, thus buying himself time to rebuild from his losses, this saved him from being nobled last week, well yesterday a different player from your family attacked a member of my tribe the result is that your family has now become target practice for my tribe and our allies.

If you are wanting to avoid being targeted then you can simply leave the -NoR- family within the next 24 hours and you may be spared, those that decide to stay longer will be hunted down.

best regards and good gaming,
-=I am the Joker=-
humble duke of ~Raid~
Notice the things I highlighted:
your Prior Duke attacked a week prior
a different member of your tribe attacked yesterday the player that attacked my tribe mate wasjacques96
now this is tricky is means you must understand what you read and you may be spared

Now I ask where did I say something that is not true?

Now to our conversation about the BLACK LIST.... and refugees what does the one have to do with the other I stated we have a list of those we will noble today and those we will hold off on. Here again reading is key no where do you read or will you read that I said NoR members are not refugees because that is plainly not true including those members that we took into our tribe they are refugees from RAID, I messaged those tribes around that the NoR family players are refugees and before taking any of those members into their tribe they should contact RAID and seek approval so why are you saying I never said they would not be attacked no where does it say we will not attack a former player of NoR.... am I confused or can you simply not read?

Now if anyone thinks I am a bad person because I wrote a text that could give a player who apparently could not read or at least could not understand what he read then I guess I am just a bad person, but this is a game and I didn't know I had to teach people to understand English I mean after all this is the English server...

and if you read "you may be spared" as "you will be spared" then there is no way I can help you...

Thus I request a formal apology from you bdbranch to the fellow players of TW for wasting not only their time reading your disappointed post but also for attempting to create a bad image of a tribe because you couldn't hold your own this really shows more about you then I think you meant to show, poor sportsmanship in my opinion is just the start...

[spoil]

[/spoil] [spoil]

[/spoil]
 
Last edited:

avmamino

Guest
Before anybody starts, no I'm not bitter about anything. When you start the game a week or more after those next to you, are only marking time, don't give enough enough thought into correct development & chose a (pardon the term) shitty tribe, you can't expect a good result.
And no I don't believe that ~Raid~ players or leaders are bad people & believe that they are more than likely decent people.

When you conduct affairs in the game (any game) & how you conduct them, you're sending a message. Among the most important messages that you send relates to how others should take you, in particularly whether they should hold trust in you.

Conduct by ~Raid~ leadership sends the clear message that others shouldn't trust anything which comes from them.

~Raid~ had a agreement not to attack a noob tribe called -NoR- (& -NoR2- - then 1st & 2nd in continent). -NoR- had absent leadership. ~Raid~ decided to break that agreement by concocting a story that the -NoR- leader was attacking them.



This is the stats of the player that was alleged to have attacked them. When asked for evidence of the alleged attack the ~Raid~ leader said



He essentially refused to present any evidence as there was no attack (backed by ingame & TW Stats)

At this time a -NoR- player named Corwin... decided to take advantage of this by attacking his fellow newer teammates.
_ __ _ _ _ _ _ _ _​

~Raid~ then sent the following message to all -NoR- members.



Essentially ~Raid~ said that those who left would not be refugees or subject to attack. This was backed up by the following query (& response)



Hardly surprisingly, ~Raid~'s word could not be trusted here. -=I am the Joker=- contacted various tribes in the local area & declared that the various former -NoR- members were infact refugees. It's not surprising because that's the trend of all similar cases. And in all cases the tribe that does these things tends to continue to concoct stories to undertake new actions.
_ _ _ _ __ __ _ _ _ _​

1 : ~Raid~ specifically said that those who left -NoR- would not be refugees.
2 : When asked about the possibilitity of such a list, the leader of ~Raid~ denied the existance of such a list.

To suddenly claim otherwise when players with troops join another tribe only shows that ~Raid~ is less than honourable in what they say. ~Raid~ specifically said that players leaving -NoR- would not be refugees & to suddenly change their mind should only highlight that ~Raid~ has a failure of credibility.

No I don't believe that ~Raid~ players or leaders are bad people & believe that they are more than likely decent people. However their conduct in this game suggests that their word is without meaning.

With this I'd like to remind people that how you conduct yourself in any game showcases part of your personality. When you undertake any activity, you should be asking yourself whether it's the type of person that you wish to portray out into the world. Yes winning is nice, but ask yourselves whether it's actually everything or if there's other things that's more important.
Funny you speak of the game as if you would know it. Using tricks is just a natural part of this game, wich in case you didnt notice, is named tribal WARS, as opposed to Sim city or monopoly (and im not saying anybody used tricks, its a word-against-word situation, just that the constallation is wrong)

In any case this very much sounds like a bitter complaint because me-or-my-friend just lost the war and got rimmed. No serious player would make such a complaint.


Btw nice work RAID for taking out the trash Nor
 

Krayakin

Guest
bdbranch said:
Before anybody starts, no I'm not bitter about anything. When you start the game a week or more after those next to you, are only marking time, don't give enough enough thought into correct development & chose a (pardon the term) shitty tribe, you can't expect a good result.
And no I don't believe that ~Raid~ players or leaders are bad people & believe that they are more than likely decent people.
Imho if you were truly "not bitter" you would not have posted here at all. I dont post on the forums much as there is little that I read that I feel I can add to, however this is an unjust statement.

1. F3v3r attacked a member of ~RAID~ and was asked to back off. Help was even offered to find a "suitable replacement". Which he declined.
2. A counter strike was sent which cleared him so he offered a ceasefire. The phrase NAP was never used in any communication.
3. Another player, Jacques96, attacked F3v3r's original ~RAID~ target, which broke the ceasefire agreement.
4. ~RAID~ retaliated.
5. Members of -NoR- & -NoR2- were offered a stay of pending attacks if they left the tribes.
6. Other tribes were contacted about possible refugee status to prevent future conflicts of interest.
anything else?
7. Oh yes, you were refused membership of ~RAID~

F3v3r was the harbinger of his own doom, Jacques96 stoked the flames and the -NoR- family reaped the whirlwind.

So ~RAID~ actually carried out their threat of "attack our members and we will retaliate" and we are considered "untrustworthy". So there was some real estate that any tribe would have eyes on and wouldn't want to be lost to other tribes which was claimed. Some members were considered valuable enough to warrant their absorption into the tribe, others were not and subsequently dealt with.

Just because ~RAID~ leadership chose to act rather than show leniency they are accused of being treacherous when it was an act of treachery by -NoR- that started the ball rolling. Well aint that rich!
 

Custodium

Guest
Must you waste our/Le forum readers time with your lies BD.
-sighs-
I got here late too, so basically everything was said. :\


And jax010 , shouldn't you hear both sides before assuming.
Well you know the saying right? :p
 

jax010

Guest
And jax010 , shouldn't you hear both sides before assuming.
Well you know the saying right? :p
The publicized reports don't work. Guilty until proven innocent.

Funny you speak of the game as if you would know it. Using tricks is just a natural part of this game, wich in case you didnt notice, is named tribal WARS, as opposed to Sim city or monopoly (and im not saying anybody used tricks, its a word-against-word situation, just that the constallation is wrong)

In any case this very much sounds like a bitter complaint because me-or-my-friend just lost the war and got rimmed. No serious player would make such a complaint.


Btw nice work RAID for taking out the trash Nor
An agreement to not attack = your word. Breaking your word = You lose trust in the diplomatic landscape. So IF an agreement was broken, posting it in the PnPs is perfectly normal and is generally a good thing; It is justified whining. I would like to know who I can trust and who I can't. I don't know about this specific situation, but universally this does not determine whether you are a serious player or not.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Custodium

Guest
I have a friend that is kind of like you. :icon_razz:
Except he says "Gay until proven straight."

And yet again I went to him saying "Isn't it Straight until proven gay?"
 

-=I am the Joker=-

Guest
The publicized reports don't work. Guilty until proven innocent.
Try the spoilers (if you would have read the edit reason you would see I edited the post and added gifs since they were not working why I have no idea... :icon_wink: )



An agreement to not attack = your word. Breaking your word = You lose trust in the diplomatic landscape. So IF an agreement was broken, posting it in the PnPs is perfectly normal and is generally a good thing; It is justified whining. I would like to know who I can trust and who I can't. I don't know about this specific situation, but universally this does not determine whether you are a serious player or not.
So who is now in the wrong I gave F3v3R my word that if he thought him or his tribe could attack my tribe then he was wrong and he would pay dearly for it, as for an agreement there was never a NAP since basically that is what the original poster stated, thus no idea where he got his info from. The agreement was made NoR stays away from my tribe or they pay for it . But even worse the poster deleted his account and restarted showing his true character...

I think the end results show that I keep my word. Need I say more...
 

avmamino

Guest
Where are all the NOR people? They should be here flaming right now, would make this thred much more interesting

C'mon, where are all those people who always defend fiercely why family tribes really CAN work :)
 

Truth3w3

Guest
Funny you speak of the game as if you would know it. Using tricks is just a natural part of this game, wich in case you didnt notice, is named tribal WARS
People take that far too seriously. Just because it's a game doesn't mean you can't show respect, honor, or any personality higher than that of d!ck. The TW staff should just put in the description of the game that Tribal Wars is a ruthless game where players will do and say anything to get the advantage. Then I wouldn't mention it again.


It was a good effort to bring this to our attention branch, but Joker did show the loopholes, or actually just plain nonexistence, of things you accused him and his tribe of.

Edit (to make above statement clear): You only showed the previous five days, not seven. Also, Joker essentially said his tribe wouldn't hunt down those that leave the tribe within 24 hours of the message, not that they weren't refugees. Yes seven days is a long time to wait before acting on it [and it was only two attacks (that sucked hard I might add)] and he lead your members to believe they'd be safe if they fled, but truly he was not directly dishonest in any way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

avmamino

Guest
This is what it reads on the TW intro page

Tribal Wars is a browser-based game set in the Middle Ages. Every player controls a small village, striving for power and glory.
I dont see any description of honour or respect, but i do see the part where they mention "Every players striving for power and glory"

Diplomatic pacts are made because it is benefitital for 2 tribes to have the pact. If the other one doenst see it benefitial any more, then they are free to break it (and of course face the consequenses, whatever they are)

And when it comes to crappy family tribes, then it is the law of darwin and evolution that they be put out of their misery.

I think RAID performed pretty well in TW terms: They displayed ruthless behaviour, effective war propaganda and the ability to noble lots of enemy villages - Just what tribal WARS is all about :)
 

Truth3w3

Guest
I dont see any description of honour or respect, but i do see the part where they mention "Every players striving for power and glory"
Striving for power and glory can include honor and respect, though yes, it is not required by any means. It was just wishful thinking for a better TW community.


In any case I'd say this thread is just about done. ~RAID~ did not truly break its word and -NoR- will have to restart on a new world.
 

bdbranch

Guest
-=I am the Joker=- said:
1 : You are a member of the -NoR- family, unfortunately the family's leader has not been honorable to other tribes or to his members, he assured my tribe ~RAID~ that after his failed attempt to noble one of our players that no further actions would come from him or his tribe
2 : why should we nap a n00b tribe...
Krayakin said:
1 : A counter strike was sent which cleared him so he offered a ceasefire.
2 : The phrase NAP was never used in any communication.
Here we see the first part of the deceptive behaviour by ~Raid~. Here is one sentence they talk about a agreement not to attack & then in the next they deny the existence of any such agreement. In another words they choose to deny the existence of their agreements.


-=I am the Joker=- said:
If you are wanting to avoid being targeted then you can simply leave the -NoR- family within the next 24 hours and you may be spared, those that decide to stay longer will be hunted down.
Here we see the deception of ~Raid~. They make a statement that players should leave to avoid being targetted then they clearly withdraw it after the players left. This is so predictable as it occurs all of the time. The question is, if -NoR- was such a pathetic tribe (which it was), why would ~Raid~ need to have the players leave so that they could attack.

-=I am the Joker=- said:
1 : It is not alleged it is fact ... but that is irrelevant.
2 : a different member of your tribe attacked yesterday the player that attacked my tribe mate was jacques96
now this is tricky is means you must understand what you read
Now the first was the total amount of evidence ~Raid~ put forward as to any such attack. Clearly not trustworthy. Suddenly he puts forward a name here. Now before we even look at the evidence, lets examine what the ~Raid~ leader claims. ~Raid~ claims that a (then) 800 point player chose to attack a 'unspecified' player (maybe Mr Shadow) that was too strong for a 2.9k player to noble. Now even on the surface the claim by ~Raid~ is dodgy. But lets look at some statistics.

Date Player Tribe Rank Points Villages OD ODA ODD
09/08/2009 jacques96 4ALL-1 8970 +923 =1 +4,990 =1,193 +3,797
08/08/2009 jacques96 4ALL-1 9131 +898 =1 +4,883 =1,193 +3,690
07/08/2009 jacques96 4ALL-1 9223 -884 =1 +4,757 +1,193 +3,564
06/08/2009 jacques96 None 9245 +886 =1 +3,450 - +3,450
05/08/2009 jacques96 None 9424 +860 =1 +3,114 - +3,114
04/08/2009 jacques96 -NoR2- 9778 +816 =1 +2,644 - +2,644
03/08/2009 jacques96 -NoR2- 9924 -801 =1 +1,865 - =1,861
02/08/2009 jacques96 -NoR2- 9547 +850 =1 =1,861 - =1,861
Surprise, surprise. The player that ~Raid~ claims to have attacked them doesn't even register any ODA until the 7th.
[QUOTE="-=I am the Joker=- 2009,August 7th, 10:39]a different member of your tribe attacked yesterday[/QUOTE]

Indeed, ~Raid~ wrote this literally. Jacques96 had undertaken his first offensive action on the 6th. Only problem with ~Raid~'s claim of a attack taking place violating the agreement was that ~Raid~ officially broke the agreement on the 3rd, alleging a attack the day prior to that (the 2nd).

Further more, when you look at the stats, you see somebody sending a several scouts against Jacques96 on the 1st & then attampting a farming mission on the 2nd. They wouldn't happen to be a ~Raid~ player by any chance? Maybe the violation was that Jacques96 defended himself or maybe it's ~Raid~ plans to concort reasons to attack other tribes, one by one.
____________________________​

Here we see ~Raid~ creating new concoctions to justify their old ones. Simple fact is that -NoR- didn't deserve to survive. However ~Raid~'s conduct in this matter only shows that ~Raid~ isn't a tribe that anybody can find trustworthy enough to have positive dealings with.
 

Custodium

Guest
bd , you do know scouts can't kill when sent on the offensive.
It's still consider breaking a ceasefire if you send scouts,
and again I still like to say there was no use of the word NAP , not even a hint since we dislike NOR for being the family you are.. -coughs- Sorry were. :icon_redface:

I know these words seem to confuse you so i'll gladly point them out.
Ceasefire ( To have a halt from both sides)
NAP ( Non-Aggression Pact that usually leads up to a bunch of lovely things of what both parties want.)

And yet still , you haven't really given any hardcore evidence .
Your just playing with the words we have and try to find some kind of loop hole
to this imaginary lie that is in your head.

I too can say BS and not back it up , stop wasting people's time and get over yourself. You lost as soon as you joined a family tribe.
 

Truth3w3

Guest
I'd just drop it, branch. What are acts of war or not is decided by whichever tribe is stronger.


C'mon, where are all those people who always defend fiercely why family tribes really CAN work :)
They can, dang it. People just really don't know how to run a real good one. When I played World 9, everyone flamed and hated family tribes, but many large tribes eventually had their own (whether it be through sisters or academies). At least two are still alive, and each are the most powerful tribes on that world in their own right (meaning minus their other tribe). /End minirant
 

Super fast

Guest
Okay now that i am unbanned :p

we never broke any NAP, we had an agreement in place that if players from NoR F attacked a member of our tribe there would be a offensive in used against NoR. One of the NoR players scouted a member of our tribe so we took action. end of story