Religion. Real or fake?

[DeletedUser]

That was a good read.

As for my thoughts, they are pretty much the same as listed above.

 

[DeletedUser]

my thoughts on this are also well documented in the other thread, and probably anyone reading could just have a look at the picture of me in my sig and take a guess about my stance on organised religion.

 

[DeletedUser67788]

Science destroyed the earth.

No, misuse of the knowledge we have is destroying the Earth. Ignoring common sense and continuing to populate the planet is destroying the Earth. If our science was advanced enough, we would be able to stop being blind to it.

"The idea of God was not a lie but a device of the unconscious which needed to be decoded by psychology. A personal god was nothing more than an exalted father-figure: desire for such a deity sprang from infantile yearnings for a powerful, protective father, for justice and fairness and for life to go on forever. God is simply a projection of these desires, feared and worshipped by human beings out of an abiding sense of helplessness. Religion belonged to the infancy of the human race; it had been a necessary stage in the transition from childhood to maturity. It had promoted ethical values which were essential to society. Now that humanity had come of age, however, it should be left behind." ~Sigmund Freud

There is one part of this that I think is missing. Fear of death. Every religion having some belief in being able to continue existing after the body dies. Implying that people will have a different afterlife based on their actions throughout their life is a way to control people.

I can't say 100% either way whether some form of afterlife exists. I have my opinions on the matter but I just don't have the answers. The question to all you people who say it does not exist is.... how much is worth risking? What happens when you are wrong?

 

[DeletedUser]

That was a good read.

As for my thoughts, they are pretty much the same as listed above.

Theres a a lot of opinions above which one is yours

 

[DeletedUser]

Theres a a lot of opinions above which one is yours

Actually, I'm at the top of the page so there are none really :icon_razz:

But I think pretty much the same as hazad, lone wolf, etc

Basically Science > Religion

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, that story was a good read. Although, I am not sure about the Einstein thing though. I've never heard stories of Einstein like that..

For myself, I think it's just each to their own, really. You believe in what you want or choose to believe in.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, that story was a good read. Although, I am not sure about the Einstein thing though. I've never heard stories of Einstein like that..

For myself, I think it's just each to their own, really. You believe in what you want or choose to believe in.

It was in his book :icon_wink:

 

[DeletedUser]

No, misuse of the knowledge we have is destroying the Earth. Ignoring common sense and continuing to populate the planet is destroying the Earth. If our science was advanced enough, we would be able to stop being blind to it.



There is one part of this that I think is missing. Fear of death. Every religion having some belief in being able to continue existing after the body dies. Implying that people will have a different afterlife based on their actions throughout their life is a way to control people.

I can't say 100% either way whether some form of afterlife exists. I have my opinions on the matter but I just don't have the answers. The question to all you people who say it does not exist is.... how much is worth risking? What happens when you are wrong?

What was the afterlife for Greeks before they converted to Christianity?

 

[DeletedUser]

What was the afterlife for Greeks before they converted to Christianity?

erm werent there all the ancient greek gods b4 christianity like aphrodighty (spelled wrong but you know who i mean)

 

[DeletedUser]

Here's something interesting to look at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY&feature=fvw

Any ideas expressed in this video do not reflect my own opinions

 

[DeletedUser]

I can't say 100% either way whether some form of afterlife exists. I have my opinions on the matter but I just don't have the answers. The question to all you people who say it does not exist is.... how much is worth risking? What happens when you are wrong?

So, what are we risking here exactly. I mean, it's not like there are any clear answers out there or a set of rules. Is it "If you don't believe in something nothing can prove, you can't go there when you're dead?". Face it, you have nothing to prove the existence and no rules to give us we have to live by. What if there is nothing there? Will you waste the only life you have, based on the unproven assumption that there is an afterlife? Will you sit hours in church, listening to the same parts of the same fantasy book every day?

What was the afterlife for Greeks before they converted to Christianity?

The afterlife of the Greeks was an underworld called Hades. There was no heaven and hell as Christianity knows it. Just 1 underworld. When you died, your family would put 2 coins on your eyes for you to pay the ferryman, that would get you across the river Styx into Hades. That's about all I know about it.

Here's something interesting to look at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljRKhZ81aqY&feature=fvw

Any ideas expressed in this video do not reflect my own opinions

If this is merely a reference to the biblical figure Jesus Christ, then you are correct, he did not exist at all. However, the historical figure, Jesus of Nazareth did exist. 2 or 3 ancient sources speak of him. A source by the roman governor at the time (forgot his name), another source by a Roman historian and something else I think. Some guy who stirred up the society and got killed over it. If you go back in time and tell him he'll be worshiped still, 2000 years after his death, I think he'll laugh himself to death, asking you before he dies of laughter what good that does to him.

 

[DeletedUser67788]

So, what are we risking here exactly. I mean, it's not like there are any clear answers out there or a set of rules. Is it "If you don't believe in something nothing can prove, you can't go there when you're dead?". Face it, you have nothing to prove the existence and no rules to give us we have to live by. What if there is nothing there? Will you waste the only life you have, based on the unproven assumption that there is an afterlife? Will you sit hours in church, listening to the same parts of the same fantasy book every day?

I am not a religious person at all. I never have and never will attend church. So when you talk to me about 'they'. you are not referring to me at all. I am purely a scientific type person.

All religions have the same basic guidelines. Don't be a bad person. Don't hurt others. All the other beliefs (especially regarding marriage) are just extras that don't necessarily have to be there.

Whether you believe in a creator or not, its just not nice to go around causing harm to people.

So when I talk about what we are 'risking', I mean what if I, and you, are completely wrong about it. When we find out we are wrong, is when its too late but to suffer for all eternity if there is any accuracy at all in the bible. Wouldn't you wish you wasted those Sundays in church listening to a fantasy book then? I know I will.

 

[DeletedUser]

I am not a religious person at all. I never have and never will attend church. So when you talk to me about 'they'. you are not referring to me at all. I am purely a scientific type person.

All religions have the same basic guidelines. Don't be a bad person. Don't hurt others. All the other beliefs (especially regarding marriage) are just extras that don't necessarily have to be there.

Whether you believe in a creator or not, its just not nice to go around causing harm to people.

So when I talk about what we are 'risking', I mean what if I, and you, are completely wrong about it. When we find out we are wrong, is when its too late but to suffer for all eternity if there is any accuracy at all in the bible. Wouldn't you wish you wasted those Sundays in church listening to a fantasy book then? I know I will.

I see, well, sorry to have interpreted it as if you were religious.

And no, I wouldn't wish I'd wasted my Sundays, cause it wouldn't have mattered. It wouldn't have made me believe if I had gone there. And isn't that what it's all about. Not the outer charade, but the inner belief in our Lord and savior, who works in extremely mysterious ways and expects us to worship him based on nothing whatsoever. Even if god exists, I would not even think about praising it for creating a world where lots of twisted things happen on a daily basis.

Of course, the occasional "goddamned, why the hell didn't my parents indoctrinate me during my childhood"-thought might just pass through my mind :lol:

And yes, you're right, religions just take bits and pieces of common sense and claim it to be part of their teachings intrinsic value, which it's clearly not. Although I do have to add that it depends on the person, whether or not he/she enjoys hurting people. A lot depends on the society you grow up in. If you grow up in a society where it is commonly accepted to torture small animals when you feel like it, then someone growing up there will not experience that as bad, but might get pleasure out of it. Of course, no such society exists (I hope) and I'm not even touching the part where it could be that said person comes to the conclusion that what said person is doing is wrong.

 

[DeletedUser]

lol. alot of wall of text.

Have to read them soon

 

[DeletedUser]

A few months ago there was this ad on a few busses in Ottawa, Canada which brought a lot of controversy from religious groups condemning the bus company for spreading a message that there is no god, however some argued that this wasn't the intent for this ad. I agree with this message 100 % and try to be happy. Since religion was and still is the dominant factor for most wars and the largest ammount of human beings killed in the name of God (inquisition, holy wars, witch hunts etc..) I personaly don't think we need to believe in higher being and try to do right to ensure a place in heaven. I think it's the right upbringing that makes us good members of society and we need to think and make decisions for ourselves not follow the brainwashing teachings of the church. Again just my opinion and this is what works for me, I just find that religion helps some cope with tragedies and failures.

 

[DeletedUser]

Hehehe, lovely bus company.

 

[DeletedUser]

um, i thiknk religion is bull, so, darwin is my god.

 

[DeletedUser75819]

‘Let me explain the problem science has with religion.’ The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’
‘Yes sir,’ the student says.
‘So you believe in God?’
‘Absolutely.’
‘Is God good?’
‘Sure! God’s good.’
‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’
‘Yes’
‘Are you good or evil?’
‘The Bible says I’m evil.’
The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible!’ He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’
‘Yes sir, I would.’
‘So you’re good…!’
‘I wouldn’t say that.’
‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’
The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?’
The student remains silent.
‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’
Er … yes,’ the student says.
‘Is Satan good?’
The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’
‘Then where does Satan come from?’
The student falters. ‘From God’
‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’
‘Yes, sir.’
‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’
‘Yes’
‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’
Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’
The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’
‘So who created them?’
The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’
The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’
‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’
‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’
‘No, sir, I have not.’
‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’
‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’
‘Yet you still believe in him?’
‘Yes’
‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?’
‘Nothing,’ the student replies. ‘I only have my faith.’
‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.’
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat?’
‘ yes.
‘And is there such a thing as cold?’
‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’
‘No sir, there isn’t.’
The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.’
‘Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’
‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation. ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’
‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.’
‘In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’
‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’
The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Fl awed? Can you explain how?’
‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains. ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.’
‘It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’
‘Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’
‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’
‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.
‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’
The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter.
‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’
‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lecture s, sir?’
Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.
Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’
‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’
Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it everyday It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’
To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’
The professor sat down.

I thought this was interesting

Oh and the student was Einstein

i haz paradox!!!!
light and darkness, good and evil...
darkness is the absent of light, as stated above. there can be flickering, full, bright light, etc. OR, light is the absence of darkness. there can be little darkness, much darkness, etc. They are both limited. If darkness is the differing absence of light, very little light, than we can conclude that light must have some limit, because absolute darkness is the absolute loss of light. think about it.
same with good and evil.

 

[Rsviper]

I know God does.nt exist but i like to beleive in him.....Cuz if things go wrong theres some1 else to blame apart from myself =)

 

[DeletedUser]

A few months ago there was this ad on a few busses in Ottawa, Canada which brought a lot of controversy from religious groups condemning the bus company for spreading a message that there is no god, however some argued that this wasn't the intent for this ad. I agree with this message 100 % and try to be happy. Since religion was and still is the dominant factor for most wars and the largest ammount of human beings killed in the name of God (inquisition, holy wars, witch hunts etc..) I personaly don't think we need to believe in higher being and try to do right to ensure a place in heaven. I think it's the right upbringing that makes us good members of society and we need to think and make decisions for ourselves not follow the brainwashing teachings of the church. Again just my opinion and this is what works for me, I just find that religion helps some cope with tragedies and failures.

Well, science could be blamed too and and most likely it tops religion when it comes to the number of people dying.

The afterlife of the Greeks was an underworld called Hades. There was no heaven and hell as Christianity knows it. Just 1 underworld. When you died, your family would put 2 coins on your eyes for you to pay the ferryman, that would get you across the river Styx into Hades. That's about all I know about it.

I was asking him. He talked about afterlife.