Religion. Real or fake?

DeletedUser

Guest
Well, science could be blamed too and and most likely it tops religion when it comes to the number of people dying.

Actually thats not true, state one thing that a HUGE amount of people died because of science?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Actually thats not true, state one thing that a HUGE amount of people died because of science?

Well, what is science?

Does it have to do anything with material progress?

Technology and so on...
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Well, what is science?

Does it have to do anything with material progress?

Technology and so on...

Knowledge (as in science) doesn't kill people. People kill people. I don't think anything truly scientific (not like race-theories, since that's obviously not serious science, but a justification made up by men) to go and kill people. Religion on the other hand is the perfect tool for it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Knowledge (as in science) doesn't kill people. People kill people. I don't think anything truly scientific (not like race-theories, since that's obviously not serious science, but a justification made up by men) to go and kill people. Religion on the other hand is the perfect tool for it.

I was waiting till she posted something so I could use that to like hum win my argument. :icon_neutral:
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Knowledge (as in science) doesn't kill people. People kill people. I don't think anything truly scientific (not like race-theories, since that's obviously not serious science, but a justification made up by men) to go and kill people. Religion on the other hand is the perfect tool for it.

Whether a justification or not they were very serious about it and some still are.

How many people are killed because of religion? I'm not saying killing in name of science but rather science combined with technology and all that tops people killed in the name of God. :icon_confused:

Also, to pick again on her argument.
Most wars have not been fought because of religion but rather of land (and whatever is in or on it). Nor is the number of deaths definite.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
WWII was mainly caused by religion/race, not science.
Crusades (land yes, but for the religion), Witch hunts, etc etc
 

DeletedUser

Guest
WWII was mainly caused by religion/race, not science.
Crusades (land yes, but for the religion), Witch hunts, etc etc
race because one race is superior to other? Then obviously that's not because of religion.

WW2 started because of ww1

Roman expansion
British Empire expansio
Mongol wars
Barbarian wars
Turkish Wars
France Wars
Chinese wars
WW1
Wars between European empires, city states and so on
USA wars with the native population
....
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Actually it does, religion,language,color was pretty much what determined enemies.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Actually it does, religion,language,color was pretty much what determined enemies.

France, UK, Russia, Italy, Germany....are all Christian countries, they fought with each other.
Indian are of different race, differnt language, color, belief...

Now according to what you Germany and British fought along each other against the Indians in WW2? :icon_confused:

Because certainlu Indians fought along side British against the Germans and other axis powers.
 

DeletedUser63932

Guest
Well, science could be blamed too and and most likely it tops religion when it comes to the number of people dying.
Not likely. It was the faithful who fought tooth and nail against the whole concept of medicine. In fact today the "holy" are still fighting against vaccinations in Africa just as they have done for centuries. Your statement could have possibly been true if you had said that the atheists have killed more than the religious (taking into consideration the stalinists and the nazis) but I still would doubt the truth in such a statement.

So many great scientific men and women have been murdered by the religious if they dared to publicize their studies or even look through telescopes in the past. All these people were doing was bettering our species through their studies and could have saved many more lives than they did. Great men like Galileo (who was put on house arrest after declaring the world was not flat) and Socrates (who was sentenced to death for stating that gods may not exist). Nevermind the countless others who we cannot document that were burned at the stake by the religious. At almost every point in our past the organized religions have opposed science. Science has definitely saved lives from meeting an untimely death. It can be proven. The same cannot be said for religion. We can however document many many many instances when religious belief was the reason lives were taken.


As for my opinion on this topic; go read Cristopher Hitchens' Book; God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Then you will have my opinion. :) It's an excellent book.

I honestly do believe that had our species never created the few organized religions that exist, we'd have been much better off. Unfortunately our brains are not developed enough to have prevented such a barbaric thing from happening. I'm a baptised catholic btw :icon_wink:
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
So many great scientific men and women have been murdered by the religious if they dared to publicize their studies or even look through telescopes in the past. All these people were doing was bettering our species through their studies and could have saved many more lives than they did. Great men like Galileo (who was put on house arrest after declaring the world was not flat) and Socrates (who was sentenced to death for stating that gods may not exist). Nevermind the countless others who we cannot document that were burned at the stake by the religious. At almost every point in our past the organized religions have opposed science. Science has definitely saved lives from meeting an untimely death. It can be proven. The same cannot be said for religion. We can however document many many many instances when religious belief was the reason lives were taken.

I don't think Socrates was killed for that alone.

As for the opposition to science, you are definitely correct. It is simply because it was a threat to the power, influence and most of all legitimacy of religions.

In a way though, very few wars are started because of science or religion. Do you honestly think someone ever said "Hey, those guys think the earth is round :icon_eek: Let's go kill them all." As stated before, science is very valuable and it is not like science cancels out the existence of god. It can not be proven if it exists or does not exist. On the other hand, religion does try to cancel out science, or just the parts that don't suit them. That's because science falsifies their ridiculous beliefs (like the earth being flat or whatever). Furthermore, to get back with the wars. Religion was never the main cause. It was a tool used to justify wars and to get some retarded zealots behind the cause (although that can be considered a minority). The Crusades can't even be considered a pure religious war. Even though it started entirely due to religious causes, economic interest soon became intertwined. The difference is, that science in itself has only served as a justification and a tool (like racial theories, which was presented as a real science at the time, although it's unsustainable), where religion has served as the starting cause of wars, and still does.

Now, well, you can drag atheists in this. I personally am no atheist, because they deny the existence of god, something that can't be proven. No, even if there is a god, then I wouldn't worship him for the world it created. Honestly, what a poor job he did. But I still can't prove it doesn't exist. So I don't deny the possibility. In a way, atheism has become some sort of religion in itself. A bit of an early stage, where the main dogma is that a god does not exist.

All in all, you have to keep a perspective here. The discussion is about religion being real of fake, not god. Just because someone believes religion to be absolute rubbish (which it is, so clearly), doesn't mean that you can not believe in god. That's not really the subject of the discussion.
And religions (in my personal opinion and that of way too few people still) are so damn wrong and retarded. Sure, they can do some good stuff. And you can claim community goodies as a result of it. Although some other social organization form would've been just as good. But how can you possibly cling to something that has a bunch of dogmatic beliefs at its core. Beliefs that you have to accept and believe in to be part of the group. I don't know about you Christians out there, but if you don't believe in the Catholic dogma that the pope is the voice of god on earth and that he is always right, then you're not part of the merry band of the Catholic church. Every main religion has them, claim some sort of universal truth that can never be falsified. For cookie's sake, I'm not going to believe for an instance, that when I'm born, I'm such a dirty little sinner and that some water over my head (which was cold, damn you priest) is going to cleanse me from that. Give me a break, I'm a few months old. Again, if you even doubt this, then you are not a Catholic. Oh, and you better start growing yourself a beard if you want to be Catholic. Cause that's what you have to do according to the bible (you know, the bestselling fantasy book of the millennium, where I think Robert Jordan should take that position, but all in due time). Few people are Catholics, even though some don't realize it. And then you get this crap about "oh, but I'm a christian". And then you wonder, what's that supposed to mean? Define that. Ask 3 christians to define their "christenhood" and you get 3 different answers. But tell them they're no part of a religion and they're all like "whut? that's not true". Most people are simply too ignorant about the religions they supposedly follow and maybe many people haven't given this all a good thought and just follow what they were indoctrinated in their childhood.
On a side not, I am ignorant as well sometimes, which is why you won't see me talk too much about Islam, as I am not well informed about the religion.

Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks for reading to the few that actually did :icon_razz:
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Not likely. It was the faithful who fought tooth and nail against the whole concept of medicine. In fact today the "holy" are still fighting against vaccinations in Africa just as they have done for centuries.

ok?
Your statement could have possibly been true if you had said that the atheists have killed more than the religious (taking into consideration the stalinists and the nazis) but I still would doubt the truth in such a statement.
I didn't know Nazis were Atheist. Well, a percentage might have been but not all of them.
So how many people are killed becasue of religion? Not a single person seems to answer the question. :icon_rolleyes:
So many great scientific men and women have been murdered by the religious if they dared to publicize their studies or even look through telescopes in the past. All these people were doing was bettering our species through their studies and could have saved many more lives than they did. Great men like Galileo (who was put on house arrest after declaring the world was not flat) and Socrates (who was sentenced to death for stating that gods may not exist). Nevermind the countless others who we cannot document that were burned at the stake by the religious. At almost every point in our past the organized religions have opposed science. Science has definitely saved lives from meeting an untimely death. It can be proven. The same cannot be said for religion. We can however document many many many instances when religious belief was the reason lives were taken.
priest2520savings2520lives252025.png

Mother Teresa?

Science took Social Darwinism and applied to their colonies.
Experiments were performed on them, they were killed and so on.



As for my opinion on this topic; go read Cristopher Hitchens' Book; God is not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything. Then you will have my opinion. :) It's an excellent book.
The topic of this thread is pretty stupid or the question being raised is ignorant. Or people just like going offtopic. :icon_confused:
Religion is very real. As real as it can get. Religion

I honestly do believe that had our species never created the few organized religions that exist, we'd have been much better off. Unfortunately our brains are not developed enough to have prevented such a barbaric thing from happening. I'm a baptised catholic btw :icon_wink:
Not all religions are barbaric.


Tanks, missiles, planes and all that are created because of science and technology. In the 2 great wars, millions of people lost their lives because of the material progress. Those deaths or wars were not because of religion even though religion might have played a minor role in it.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Science took Social Darwinism and applied to their colonies.
Experiments were performed on them, they were killed and so on.

Erm, no, science did not "take" Social Darwinism and apply it somewhere. Science is not something like a religion, a form of institution with real power and some sort of an objective. It's funny really, how people defending religion put science on the same level as religion. There is no "leading scientist" that tells other scientists what to believe, or there is no other science, which rivals with science number 1. Science is science...
People apply the things that science "reveals" to us. So you can't blame science for the death of a person shot by a firearms. Science did not pull the trigger. And yes, this can be extended to religion. But where science is simply logic, religion is not. It is made by men and used by men to achieve goals they set out for themselves.
You use the internet, obviously. It was created due to military research. Now, if you were to send some sort of virus out there, to infect all computers and to cause chaos, resulting in the meltdown of nuclear power plants and the death of millions. Would you blame science for the deaths? After all, science (which is poorly defined at the moment) created the internet. You can try that in court, but I'd be preparing myself for prison time then if I were you :lol:

Also, you're mixing up theories (like social Darwinism) and material inventions through science (like the hourglass). I don't know why you do it, but you can't compare it...

No, nazi's weren't atheists at all. Religious beliefs were also somewhat used to strengthen racial purity. But in general, religion had nothing to do with WWI and it fell rather silent in WWII (a reason for a hefty debate on religious policies during WWII).
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The Bible says that God exists and the Bible is always right because it was inspired by God, therefore God exists.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Erm, no, science did not "take" Social Darwinism and apply it somewhere.
I meant to say European powers. WAs tired and i forgot to write that down.

Science is not something like a religion, a form of institution with real power and some sort of an objective. Erm, no, science did not "take" Social Darwinism and apply it somewhere. Science is not something like a religion, a form of institution with real power and some sort of an objective. It's funny really, how people defending religion put science on the same level as religion. There is no "leading scientist" that tells other scientists what to believe, or there is no other science, which rivals with science number 1. Science is science...
People apply the things that science "reveals" to us.
Instituion :p lol
Yeah, but not all of them agree on every single theory.

So you can't blame science for the death of a person shot by a firearms. Science did not pull the trigger. And yes, this can be extended to religion. But where science is simply logic, religion is not. It is made by men and used by men to achieve goals they set out for themselves.
The person pulled the trigger. You can't say you can't blame science but you can blame religion. :icon_neutral:

You use the internet, obviously. It was created due to military research. Now, if you were to send some sort of virus out there, to infect all computers and to cause chaos, resulting in the meltdown of nuclear power plants and the death of millions. Would you blame science for the deaths? After all, science (which is poorly defined at the moment) created the internet. You can try that in court, but I'd be preparing myself for prison time then if I were you
You were in the same situation and did all that but killed in the name of God then you would be on the same postition. Not much of a difference, right?

Now if tank was created to kill people, then why not blame science or scientists for greating a machine that takes lives of many people? :icon_biggrin: But what happens if you use the same machine but you kill in the name of God? Which one do you really blame? :icon_confused:
:lol:



Also, you're mixing up theories (like
social Darwinism) and material inventions through science (like the hourglass). I don't know why you do it, but you can't compare it...
I know very well the difference between the two.

No, nazi's weren't atheists at all. Religious beliefs were also somewhat used to strengthen racial purity. But in general, religion had nothing to do with WWI and it fell rather silent in WWII (a reason for a hefty debate on religious policies during WWII).
Well, I can't say that there might have not been a single atheist.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
The Bible says that God exists and the Bible is always right because it was inspired by God, therefore God exists.

Giggles.

Cookies are the origin of the creation of the universe, because John Doe wrote a book about it and he was inspired by god, therefore Cookies are the origin of the creation of the universe.

Same thing really...
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Giggles.

Cookies are the origin of the creation of the universe, because John Doe wrote a book about it and he was inspired by god, therefore Cookies are the origin of the creation of the universe.

Same thing really...

Fallacy!
 

DeletedUser63932

Guest
lol wow not only was I infracted, they deleted my entire post. Apparently disdain for the faithful is not allowed here.
 
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