lords of the emos
Guest
/Hugz Clive
DeletedUser
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aww.. cheers, Eric :0)
Jobetopia
Guest
Hi all - was wandering by and saw this merry little thread and thought I would stick a nostaglic oar in - I was around in those days and remember them very well 
Hmmm sorry Slayer, not calling sides on this one (Im a PNP'er without portfolio nowdays) but thats not actually true (I should say correct rather than true because I suspect you are mistaken rather than lying).
Fusion and there steadfast allies Spank (still my favourite tribe on any world) were involved in a multiple war. Fusion were fighting TDP (The Dreaded Plague -also some quite nice chaps) TDPII and TDPIII, well, to be factual a small southwest faction (mostly k85 and K86) of Fusion, were fighting TDP (Not NSA who were not formed untill sometime after Fusions demise). The war went badly wrong because a few players went off halfcocked and declared war on what they thought was a fairly insignificant tribe and ran into much stiffer resistance than they expected.....not surprising when you consider there opponents were people like Pantherskurt, Woods and Exor19 - widely considered to be some of the best players on W29 before they quit. About this time a large PNP Battle/anti Fusion campaign started on the forums, as a result of this PNP the rest of Fusion began to get (slowly) involved with an annoying war no one really wanted to fight, in one of the worst expansion areas on the map for Fusion, and the Stats reversed to Fusions Favour (anyone who is actually interested can find the threads on this very forum). Around this time Bostophir (fusions Duke) insulted and upset the agust personage of Graylin who went on to lay the foundations for what was to eventually become known as "The Puppet Alliance" - This was DSL, TLA, DINO, KGR-A, KGR, Arisen - who declared war on Fusion and Spank. Dino also (and its all documented) entered into a deal with a tribe called "Dead" to attack Fusion, although Dead were never an official member of The Puppet Alliance. Fusion were also fighting a small Tribe called DBD at the time of the declaration but thats not really worthy of inclusion in the total.
So, the total sides in the war were - - The Puppet Alliance:
DSL, TLA, Dino, KGR-A, KGR, Arisen, and Dead (although unofficial)
TDP Fam:
TDP, TDPII, TDPIII and Dead - 10 Tribes
V
The FusoSpank Forces:
Fusion, Spank and Hope - 3 Tribes
The actual figures in total for the war were 10 v 3.
Geographically Fusion and Spank were at war with every single tribe around them on every single border. Fusion was predominantly fighting against Dino, KGR-A, KGR, TDP, TDPII, TDPIII and Dead, Spank was Fighting against DSL, TLA, Arisen and TDP, TDP11, TDPIII (who were behind them). - Together the Tribes were fighting all of the above - Hence a 10 v 3 war (or Gangbang to use the vernacular of the times).
I will disagree with you hear quite strongly Slayer, Yonithan and Detroit were both very good players - Yonithan led my K in the Fusion War and did a damn good job of it, we were the only area where Fusion ended the war actually up on captures (by quite a large margin), and I attribute that totally to Yoni's leadership and efforts. I cant speak for present history, I was not there - but I do know Yoni was planning on getting married and that real life etc probablly eroded his will to play the game in the latter stages. Detroitcannuck I know less well, but again I know he was a damn good player, I also know that he is genreally away working in the oil fields for 6months a year - so its entirely possible you have not been fighting the original player.
In the spirit of fairness, I have to say here thats a little extreme, good pnp put down, but not that close to bitter realitys of this game. When your a player you have the option to have totally clean hands and play in an honourable way - you only meeting your own standards. When your a duke or a council member that distinction becomes less clear, because you are working on behalf of your Tribe behind the scenes and trying to do the best for those players. I hated my brief stint as a Duke, and I was not very fond of some of the things I had to do as a Council Member. The job, to put it bluntly, is a Sewer. You get all the shady back room deals, all the false diplomacy, you have to lie to people you like and respect - because the Tribes needs/plans have to come before those personal relationships - (Or you can tell the truth and betray your Tribe - Catch 22). And you do end up with peoples password data, it happens as players quit and give you there passwords to find new players for the accounts. I defy any Duke of a major tribe (for longer than a few months) to come on here and say that they or there council have never held the password details for another account, they all have - in a way its almost part of there Job. Thats how DSL pulled in those old world players in the TLA/DSL war, they put new players in there old accounts - TLA have done it, Grind have done it - we all have. - I would say the test of character here is what you do with that password, if you give it to a new player - thats fine. If you log onto that account and play it as your own thats cheating (imo). Normally those details are dealt with by Dukes, Leaders - so those people have to deal with that less then pleasent aspect of the game (and it is less pleasent), the details are normally passed by Skype or Email but that cant be checked ingame.
By the TW rules holding another players password details is cheating and worthy of village loss/ban, thats the rule as written. The reality is that the only way TW can police this is if the password details are in your ingame mail, If they find them there you will get punished.
Does the fact that they were in your ingame mail make you any more guilty than the guy that holds them on Skype? - No, you are both guilty of breaking the rules, the only difference is that the ingame guy has been caught and punished (according to the rules).
Seriously though, all the big Tribes draft new players into accounts at somepoint or another - and they have passwords to give that account - Its against the rules yes - but it happens, and everybody does it (or has does it). You can't scream theatrically at someone and shout "Cheat" just because they are the one that got caught, its kind of hypocritical - and I would say the same thing in defence of any player on this server who has been in a leadship position (even Graylin!).
(And to note, I am not supporting the practice - I am just noting the pure and simple truth that all the big tribes have done it at somepoint).
Peace out you lovely "Still playing Tribal Wars" Peps!
Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent a war in Europe, two super blocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side; and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast, opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Baldrick: Except, well, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
George: Oh, what was that?
Blackadder: It was bollocks.
Hmmm sorry Slayer, not calling sides on this one (Im a PNP'er without portfolio nowdays) but thats not actually true (I should say correct rather than true because I suspect you are mistaken rather than lying).
Fusion and there steadfast allies Spank (still my favourite tribe on any world) were involved in a multiple war. Fusion were fighting TDP (The Dreaded Plague -also some quite nice chaps) TDPII and TDPIII, well, to be factual a small southwest faction (mostly k85 and K86) of Fusion, were fighting TDP (Not NSA who were not formed untill sometime after Fusions demise). The war went badly wrong because a few players went off halfcocked and declared war on what they thought was a fairly insignificant tribe and ran into much stiffer resistance than they expected.....not surprising when you consider there opponents were people like Pantherskurt, Woods and Exor19 - widely considered to be some of the best players on W29 before they quit. About this time a large PNP Battle/anti Fusion campaign started on the forums, as a result of this PNP the rest of Fusion began to get (slowly) involved with an annoying war no one really wanted to fight, in one of the worst expansion areas on the map for Fusion, and the Stats reversed to Fusions Favour (anyone who is actually interested can find the threads on this very forum). Around this time Bostophir (fusions Duke) insulted and upset the agust personage of Graylin who went on to lay the foundations for what was to eventually become known as "The Puppet Alliance" - This was DSL, TLA, DINO, KGR-A, KGR, Arisen - who declared war on Fusion and Spank. Dino also (and its all documented) entered into a deal with a tribe called "Dead" to attack Fusion, although Dead were never an official member of The Puppet Alliance. Fusion were also fighting a small Tribe called DBD at the time of the declaration but thats not really worthy of inclusion in the total.
So, the total sides in the war were - - The Puppet Alliance:
DSL, TLA, Dino, KGR-A, KGR, Arisen, and Dead (although unofficial)
TDP Fam:
TDP, TDPII, TDPIII and Dead - 10 Tribes
V
The FusoSpank Forces:
Fusion, Spank and Hope - 3 Tribes
The actual figures in total for the war were 10 v 3.
Geographically Fusion and Spank were at war with every single tribe around them on every single border. Fusion was predominantly fighting against Dino, KGR-A, KGR, TDP, TDPII, TDPIII and Dead, Spank was Fighting against DSL, TLA, Arisen and TDP, TDP11, TDPIII (who were behind them). - Together the Tribes were fighting all of the above - Hence a 10 v 3 war (or Gangbang to use the vernacular of the times).
I will disagree with you hear quite strongly Slayer, Yonithan and Detroit were both very good players - Yonithan led my K in the Fusion War and did a damn good job of it, we were the only area where Fusion ended the war actually up on captures (by quite a large margin), and I attribute that totally to Yoni's leadership and efforts. I cant speak for present history, I was not there - but I do know Yoni was planning on getting married and that real life etc probablly eroded his will to play the game in the latter stages. Detroitcannuck I know less well, but again I know he was a damn good player, I also know that he is genreally away working in the oil fields for 6months a year - so its entirely possible you have not been fighting the original player.
In the spirit of fairness, I have to say here thats a little extreme, good pnp put down, but not that close to bitter realitys of this game. When your a player you have the option to have totally clean hands and play in an honourable way - you only meeting your own standards. When your a duke or a council member that distinction becomes less clear, because you are working on behalf of your Tribe behind the scenes and trying to do the best for those players. I hated my brief stint as a Duke, and I was not very fond of some of the things I had to do as a Council Member. The job, to put it bluntly, is a Sewer. You get all the shady back room deals, all the false diplomacy, you have to lie to people you like and respect - because the Tribes needs/plans have to come before those personal relationships - (Or you can tell the truth and betray your Tribe - Catch 22). And you do end up with peoples password data, it happens as players quit and give you there passwords to find new players for the accounts. I defy any Duke of a major tribe (for longer than a few months) to come on here and say that they or there council have never held the password details for another account, they all have - in a way its almost part of there Job. Thats how DSL pulled in those old world players in the TLA/DSL war, they put new players in there old accounts - TLA have done it, Grind have done it - we all have. - I would say the test of character here is what you do with that password, if you give it to a new player - thats fine. If you log onto that account and play it as your own thats cheating (imo). Normally those details are dealt with by Dukes, Leaders - so those people have to deal with that less then pleasent aspect of the game (and it is less pleasent), the details are normally passed by Skype or Email but that cant be checked ingame.
By the TW rules holding another players password details is cheating and worthy of village loss/ban, thats the rule as written. The reality is that the only way TW can police this is if the password details are in your ingame mail, If they find them there you will get punished.
Does the fact that they were in your ingame mail make you any more guilty than the guy that holds them on Skype? - No, you are both guilty of breaking the rules, the only difference is that the ingame guy has been caught and punished (according to the rules).
Seriously though, all the big Tribes draft new players into accounts at somepoint or another - and they have passwords to give that account - Its against the rules yes - but it happens, and everybody does it (or has does it). You can't scream theatrically at someone and shout "Cheat" just because they are the one that got caught, its kind of hypocritical - and I would say the same thing in defence of any player on this server who has been in a leadship position (even Graylin!).
(And to note, I am not supporting the practice - I am just noting the pure and simple truth that all the big tribes have done it at somepoint).
Peace out you lovely "Still playing Tribal Wars" Peps!
Blackadder: You see, Baldrick, in order to prevent a war in Europe, two super blocs developed: us, the French and the Russians on one side; and the Germans and Austro-Hungary on the other. The idea was to have two vast, opposing armies, each acting as the other's deterrent. That way, there could never be a war.
Baldrick: Except, well, this is sort of a war, isn't it?
Blackadder: That's right. There was one tiny flaw in the plan.
George: Oh, what was that?
Blackadder: It was bollocks.
DeletedUser
Guest
Jobe that is not exactly true I have been in TLA's council off and on for years and during that time I have never had any passwords of any member currently or in the past. I even was Duke of TLA for a spell and never had any passwords then either. Also I have never lied to anyone in my tribe or even in your tribe or any tribe I can think of, yes I am a bit brutal but being the man I am that is expected.
I will let slayer respond to the rest of your statements since it was him that you have addressed.
I will let slayer respond to the rest of your statements since it was him that you have addressed.
Last edited by a moderator:
Jobetopia
Guest
That is very likely true Blood, back in the day I never heard anyone say a particually bad word against you, and I comend you for your honesty - but let me ask you this, can you honestly say that TLA have never held a password for an account or installed a new player on a dead account with a password?
As for the lying part - its more lies by ommision I am talking about - for example, when Grind was about to declare on NSA I had several NSA players mail me (as a Grind Council member) to ask if we were about to declare on them. These were people I considered friends and who I had fought with in a previous war - and respected. I had been arguing against the NSA war for weeks, but finally was voted down and Grind was about to declare. If I answered these players and told them "No", I would have been lieing to them, If I had answered "Yes" I would have been betraying my Tribe - so I was forced to choose between the two evils. The third option (which at the time I less than heroically took) was to ignore them (which given we talked alot was a clue to them anyway - but it was all I could do at the time). Shortly after that I quit for the 1st time because the game had become less fun.
The Higher up the Tribal Wars tree you go the more you come into those sort of situations (thats been my experience anyway) - its one of the reasons I dont play the game anymore
DeletedUser
Guest
Well in that case you should have done what I do which is say I can not discuss the matters of state within my tribe but I would always be prepared since this is tribal wars but you will always be my friend. Like what it says in my profile you need a plan to fight everyone including your friends but that is just being prepared but you never need to implement.
Also dealing with passwords I never ask if we have the password but if we can put someone on that account either permanently or have them sitted until that person gets back. What goes behind the scenes is not my concern or deny if it happens for everyone in my tribe knows how I am so I become predictable. I believe in honor first and loyalty to my friends luckily all of them are in TLA but it was never always like that since I had some friends in DSL while we were at war with them but now they are here with me.
Since that should have been your true goal which is bring them all under one banner like I have.DeletedUser
Guest
Wish there was a Jobe for every world...
DeletedUser62494
Guest
As my time is being severally strained right now I will give a simple short reply to you Jobe. First nice to see you dropping by.
But your tribe count is still far from correct. You have left out Spanks academy which was still around at that time. I know full well about that because they cut them when they merged and formed NSA. Secondly if your going to count tribes like dead where does that leave tribes all the top 20 rim tribes that DSL and TLA where fighting?
And further more. Fusion never fought against TLA or Arisen. So the claim of 9 v 2 is still dead wrong. TLA had no border and no caps or likely even attacks against Fusion so for it to be called a war of 9v2 is no where near the truth.
But your tribe count is still far from correct. You have left out Spanks academy which was still around at that time. I know full well about that because they cut them when they merged and formed NSA. Secondly if your going to count tribes like dead where does that leave tribes all the top 20 rim tribes that DSL and TLA where fighting?
And further more. Fusion never fought against TLA or Arisen. So the claim of 9 v 2 is still dead wrong. TLA had no border and no caps or likely even attacks against Fusion so for it to be called a war of 9v2 is no where near the truth.
Jobetopia
Guest
Hey Slayer
- You are quite right, I did miss out Spanky - I will amend that, it was Fusion, Hope, Spank and Spanky - so 10 v 4. However, I never claimed Fusion fought against TLA or Arisen - Spank and spanky did however, and they were the two tribes from the 4 on our side - Hence 10 v 4 - ten tribes against four tribes. I did actually break down the individual fights in my post.
The war was very much 10 V 4 (in total) - But as I myself said above, on an geographical basis - Fusion and Hope were fighting 2 V 7 and Spank and Spanky were fighting 2 V 6. In the latter stages of the war for Fusion it became 2 V 8 as DSL hacked there way through to a border, and this was one of the deciding factors in Fusions final collapse with the opening of that new front.
Dead were included because Dino were co-ordinating with them in attacking Fusion - hence they were a defacto part of the alliance (If you look round about page 23 of the forum and check the word 29 war PNP thread its all very well documented in there.
As for other tribes TLA were fighting, they well may have been fighting up in the north somewhere - but Fusion and Spank were not coordinating with those tribes, had no shared forums and indeed - no contact (we were a little busy at the time lol), Fusion was also engaged in several small wars with other tribes at the same time, but I havent included those either - because they were not part of that main conflict like the above tribes.
I would also debate NSA cutting and running, I could be wrong, but NSA was formed some time after Fusion collapsed and as memory serves was created round about the time (or after) TLA and DSL had declared on each other - indeed NSA was TLA's ally in that war - TLA and NSA v DSL and DOD. At the Beginning DSL also had DINO defensive support, but that was pulled after Grind was formed.
No offence intended to you or TLA slayer - But I have very strong memories of that time, and there is an entire thread to back that up with evidence, im not defending anyone here - merely pointing out historical accuracy
DeletedUser89005
Guest
i agree completely with what you state here, but in all honesty and more importantly (to me anyhow) i dont nor ever did like sat accounts etc, granted i have had a few other friends from other worlds take on some accounts, but in all honesty, a player trying to compete in 2 worlds, or playing 2 accounts on the one world will never work one will always get neglected at some point.. and with passwords being held etc it is so easy to get caught out.. hence ive never been banned nor penalized for such an act.. but do know that it happens more than what it should on this world..
DeletedUser87372
Guest
Hey Slayer
However, I never claimed Fusion fought against TLA or Arisen - Spank and spanky did however, and they were the two tribes from the 4 on our side - Hence 10 v 4 - ten tribes against four tribes. I did actually break down the individual fights in my post.
The war was very much 10 V 4 (in total) - But as I myself said above, on an geographical basis - Fusion and Hope were fighting 2 V 7 and Spank and Spanky were fighting 2 V 6. In the latter stages of the war for Fusion it became 2 V 8 as DSL hacked there way through to a border, and this was one of the deciding factors in Fusions final collapse with the opening of that new front.
Dead were included because Dino were co-ordinating with them in attacking Fusion - hence they were a defacto part of the alliance (If you look round about page 23 of the forum and check the word 29 war PNP thread its all very well documented in there.
As for other tribes TLA were fighting, they well may have been fighting up in the north somewhere - but Fusion and Spank were not coordinating with those tribes, had no shared forums and indeed - no contact (we were a little busy at the time lol), Fusion was also engaged in several small wars with other tribes at the same time, but I havent included those either - because they were not part of that main conflict like the above tribes.
I would also debate NSA cutting and running, I could be wrong, but NSA was formed some time after Fusion collapsed and as memory serves was created round about the time (or after) TLA and DSL had declared on each other - indeed NSA was TLA's ally in that war - TLA and NSA v DSL and DOD. At the Beginning DSL also had DINO defensive support, but that was pulled after Grind was formed.
No offence intended to you or TLA slayer - But I have very strong memories of that time, and there is an entire thread to back that up with evidence, im not defending anyone here - merely pointing out historical accuracy
You may be accurate in the number of tribes included on this battle as it was heavily one sided, but Fusion were undisputably the largest tribe in the world at the time, and of those 10 tribes, there were only really a few worth noting as many were academy tribes to the core tribes.
DINO, KGR, TDP, TLA, DSL vs. Fusion and Spank, where the war from my recollection was predominantly:
DINO, KGR, and TDP v. Fusion (combined were not hugely different in size on both sides)
TLA & DSL v. Spank (Combined were quite a bit larger than Spank, but Spank had a LOT of support from FUSION)
This war was not a complete bashing for the fun of it, but pivotal in shaping W29, as without it, FUSION would have surely continued to grow at a much larger rate than any of the other tribes with little immediate opposition. As such, I think Graylin had actually orchestrated a very well planned combined attack. Yes, it may have been a bit unfair (mainly on Spank), but war is never fair.
DeletedUser
Guest
This might be a sudden drop in, but I can tell you one thing, which is that Graylin wasn't solely the person who orchestrated the combined assault.
The original idea came from both Graylin, Nev & myself as I recall (I COULD be missing out one or two names on this one).
And like someone else pointed out earlier, FUSION indeed, was getting a bit to big, next to the fact we needed to expand into K55, which was where SPANK was, and to get to FUSION on more then one front.
My history is somewhat vague regarding this, but as far as I recall, this was partially the way it started up from DSL's or rather the Puppet Alliance it's part.
